553LikesSanwa M17- New TOTL Pistol
05-19-2018, 03:16 PM
#110
This is the sort of typical patronizing I was talking about dude and it's not helping the reality of it's burn to the SANWA/Futaba fan boys.
Disregarding the fact they technically took a quantum leap of a dump on everyone else with what their system can offer won't make it go away.
Eventually these lower quality manufacturers will iron out the bugs and get it right, and from the looks of it quite possibly before these top tier brand radio companies do if they don't get their head out of their #%! and bust a move pretty soon before they're to late to join this exponential surge of technology synthesis that is happening before our eyes.
Consider the fact that at least two of the top ESC manufacturers (Hobbywing & Tekin) have been integrating bluetooth and wifi APK/app based communications to their systems, biting on the heels of what Traxxas was doing a few years ago.
But I regress, my point is you don't need a tablet or phone to run such an app when your radio has the capabilities to accommodate the task of such operations already on board such as the DX6R.
If you don't understand the profoundness of all this, get back to me when you can write a response to this forum from from the screen of your SANWA/Futaba.
DX6R =
App based OS capable of running third party APKs
Wifi
Bluetooth
Wireless FPV link
And they even included a charging base eliminating the need for having to take the battery out while providing a secure stand for the bench. What more do you need to realize the system's features are superior to everyone else's offerings?
As a side note - You can believe these companies are aware of what all I've said to a certain degree, as in my opinion was demonstrated by Futaba's knee jerk reactions that led them to hastily release their new flagship "7PX" well before the 4PX hit it's intended expiration date.
It wasn't just mere coincidence it had to be a "7 channel" release to follow up on the DX "6" R. The old (name of product X) with the included 2000 behind it to yell "I must be good!" trickery. Sadly for the consumer, it works almost every time.
I believe this same reasoning of marketing logic was also responsible for Futaba's introducing NFC (near field communication) capability in rebuttal to spektrums wifi and bluetooth implementation, and lets not forget they also dropped in a wireless charging base like the DX6R. But sadly the NFC function doesn't provide any features note worthy of mention outside of being able to update wireless from an NFC compatible phone. Big whoop... But the symbolism of similar technologies are there none the less.
05-19-2018, 10:06 PM
#113
Some of the radio advancements also get neutered by ROAR and other organizations.
I run the Sanwa Vortex TX / ESC combos in a few of my cars. You can program some stuff from the radio, but it is very limited. And that is because it was made illegal after Sanwa developed the tech.
Programming the Boost and Turbo settings from the radio on the driver stand is awesome. Having 5 different profiles to "set" into memory is also nice. Having the ESC made illegal for stock racing because people don't understand the technology sucks. I do wish they would take the telemetry further and have it transmitted to a better UI on a laptop for review that would include track overlay graphics. Actually the AMB transponders and software should already be doing this.
The Graupner X-8E is also doing some interesting things - check them out and see what more features you would like on your Sanwa.
I run the Sanwa Vortex TX / ESC combos in a few of my cars. You can program some stuff from the radio, but it is very limited. And that is because it was made illegal after Sanwa developed the tech.
Programming the Boost and Turbo settings from the radio on the driver stand is awesome. Having 5 different profiles to "set" into memory is also nice. Having the ESC made illegal for stock racing because people don't understand the technology sucks. I do wish they would take the telemetry further and have it transmitted to a better UI on a laptop for review that would include track overlay graphics. Actually the AMB transponders and software should already be doing this.
The Graupner X-8E is also doing some interesting things - check them out and see what more features you would like on your Sanwa.
05-20-2018, 07:32 AM
#114
Now had you took the time to actually read what I wrote with a little critical thinking involved, you'd realize I'm on your side arguing for your best interest as a consumer, not that you actually care which is fairly apparent by the snide remarks.
Not that your needless aggression toward me surpasses your picking on another poster a couple comments ago for being weak, only to find out he might be an older fella who has a logical reason for being concerned about the weight of this system. By the way, how did you know he didn't have a disorder or physical ailment that would also justify such a concern as the weight before you decided to make assumptive and rude remarks about their person?
Anyhow with all that aside and in one last ditch effort to get you to understand why I posted all the opinionated criticisms I did, and how it is actually the polar opposite of my hating on these companies.
I am and have been a loyal supporter of SANWA (Airtronics) and Futanba since I have been into the hobby from the age of 11 starting back in 1993.
It might seem like I am trolling on them by your perspective of my rather blunt criticisms, but it's because I am a bit disappointed in what these high end companies are failing to produce for the last few years. Meanwhile Spektrum, FrSky, and a few other cheaper quality manufacturers are all over it and will eventually work out the bugs of their short comings.
I am fairly certain SANWA or Futaba are more than capable of producing much more than we get with all their long term resources within the industry by now.
Why they don't can only be left to speculation, but I fear the one thing that will happen for sure is it's going to eventually catch up to them if they don't start picking up some pace,
I'd seriously hate to see that happen to another prominent figurehead in the industry as it did to the infamous ESC giant Novak,
So listen man, If you're fine with what you're being offered at the amount it will cost you, great. I am perfectly cool with your buying what ever you want. It's your money and your business. But don't ever patronize me again by telling me what to do with some false sense of authority. You have none here, and you wouldn't in person either.
We are just people talking about our hobby and relating to one another by our similar interest. I do like deep discussions and somewhat informed debates, but if I feel like I need to steal someone else's joy over my hobbies, then it might be time to reevaluate why I'm in it.
05-20-2018, 03:32 PM
#116
I bought and test ran every last gen system that mattered the last flag ship go round.
I don't just say things based off of blind opinions. I literally know every radio inside and out to the point of complete disassembly and back again. There is no question the SANWA M12S was the best built transmitter with the highest degree of precision and structural soundness. But after many many runs I found the 4PX to end up being my favorite of them all.
It's much lighter, does everything the SANWA did minus the angled trigger ability and the Rx's are much more affordable for multiple vehicles. It was the best deal over all.
While the M12S was the most soild feeling system with a high degree of precision, I could only give it a very slight edge in feel compared to the Futaba. But I could see no difference in transmission speeds running .07 @ 60deg 340oz-in Futaba 9352HV servos powered an 8 amp external BEC. I did not get to test the airtronics spec servos with the M12S system, but realistically I highly doubt I would have been able to see or feel the difference at the performances already realized by the Futaba servos, from which I will say in my experience are the most trouble free servos out there hands down. I have compared them to other comparable hitec, airtronics, spekrtum, savox, and you name it brands and they have always outperformed the comp in one way or another in the end in my experience. They run very quiet and fairly cool with low feedback (electronic noise) and actually hit the numbers they claim in power and speed flawlessly while seeming to outlast most of the others I have tried in the durability dept. But servos are a whole other topic so I regress.
In the end the programming ease of the 4PX however was by far the most intuitive user friendly unit of the three.
The Spektrum system didn't even play ball in the same league as the 4PX and M12S, so it's not worth mention outside of it's more linear trigger pull and larger wheel, which I did like about it.
Now that the DX6R and SANWA M17 is out, there should be minimal programming indifference and it was definitely a move in the right direction for them and Futaba no longer hold kingship in this area.
However, none of these factors takes anything away from what I am saying about the superiority of having a wifi/bluetooth App based OS running the show.
In flexibility and bells and whistles department, the DX6R still wins whether anyone else wants to admit that or not.
In my honest opinion, having such features is the only step left for SANWA and Futaba for the future if they plan on staying relevant for the future of RC and the rapidly accelerating opensource and 3rd party apk/apps that are beginning to take precedence in our hobby.
05-20-2018, 04:20 PM
#117
amain has the m17 on its website now. Available for order end of July, no price listed.
05-20-2018, 04:35 PM
#118
Technology has not been pushed to it's limits at all. As a matter of fact its pretty much a joke how low tech these systems are at this point of our modern "affordable" capabilities.
These companies are doing nothing outside of the box and just increasing transmission speeds in little increments that are already to the point of being close enough to "real-time" it's undetectable to most human interaction, then they cap it off with the latest Chinese made color touch screen that I can buy off of allibaba for $2.50 a unit, that of which could be had 12 years ago on any smart phone. Having rechargable Tx batteries is made out to be a luxury in the ground vehicle world, while in the mean time I had them in my model airplane radios since I started fly them back in 93. Mind you these are the same companies such as futaba where I can buy a 10 channel air radio for $300 that blows the socks off of any ground system out there in functional/program-ability and real metal switches that cost up to $200 more.... Huh?
What I want to know is....
Where is the haptic feed back? Gyros and accelerometers have been around since RC helicopters became mainstream and are now fairly standard in RTR RC cars with the likes of AVC Rx units. Sending back input data to the radio for electromagnetic resistance would be trivially easy and would offer a connected sense of feel that would be unrivaled by any other system. Imagine being able to feel the wheel tighten up as you picked up speed through a corner until the loss of traction is realized by the sudden loosening of it. Anyone would be able to quickly realize tire and setup changes through muscle memory around any given track that might otherwise go unnoticed loosing you an edge. It's not rocket science, but there is a reason haptic feed back is used for flight simulations in the military and NASA training camps.
Why isn't telemetry and all of it's sensors already bundled into the receivers by now? I mean we are paying $500+ for things that aren't included... Say what!
Realizing the driving force of the hobby, one has to also ask why it hasn't dawned on any radio manufacturers to make a modular based electronics group for the ability to swap into various aftermarket shells for user preferred ergonomic and customization abilities. No two hands and feel are alike. Why not make that inconvenience disappear altogether and open up an entirely new sales department that I suspect would be wildly successful?
Marketing 110% Innovation 2% for the loss.
These companies are doing nothing outside of the box and just increasing transmission speeds in little increments that are already to the point of being close enough to "real-time" it's undetectable to most human interaction, then they cap it off with the latest Chinese made color touch screen that I can buy off of allibaba for $2.50 a unit, that of which could be had 12 years ago on any smart phone. Having rechargable Tx batteries is made out to be a luxury in the ground vehicle world, while in the mean time I had them in my model airplane radios since I started fly them back in 93. Mind you these are the same companies such as futaba where I can buy a 10 channel air radio for $300 that blows the socks off of any ground system out there in functional/program-ability and real metal switches that cost up to $200 more.... Huh?
What I want to know is....
Where is the haptic feed back? Gyros and accelerometers have been around since RC helicopters became mainstream and are now fairly standard in RTR RC cars with the likes of AVC Rx units. Sending back input data to the radio for electromagnetic resistance would be trivially easy and would offer a connected sense of feel that would be unrivaled by any other system. Imagine being able to feel the wheel tighten up as you picked up speed through a corner until the loss of traction is realized by the sudden loosening of it. Anyone would be able to quickly realize tire and setup changes through muscle memory around any given track that might otherwise go unnoticed loosing you an edge. It's not rocket science, but there is a reason haptic feed back is used for flight simulations in the military and NASA training camps.
Why isn't telemetry and all of it's sensors already bundled into the receivers by now? I mean we are paying $500+ for things that aren't included... Say what!
Realizing the driving force of the hobby, one has to also ask why it hasn't dawned on any radio manufacturers to make a modular based electronics group for the ability to swap into various aftermarket shells for user preferred ergonomic and customization abilities. No two hands and feel are alike. Why not make that inconvenience disappear altogether and open up an entirely new sales department that I suspect would be wildly successful?
Marketing 110% Innovation 2% for the loss.
05-20-2018, 06:46 PM
#120
Tech Adept
Do you guys even read the post in a thread? I have tested more radios over the years than most of you have likely seen or owned.
I bought and test ran every last gen system that mattered the last flag ship go round.
I don't just say things based off of blind opinions. I literally know every radio inside and out to the point of complete disassembly and back again. There is no question the SANWA M12S was the best built transmitter with the highest degree of precision and structural soundness. But after many many runs I found the 4PX to end up being my favorite of them all.
It's much lighter, does everything the SANWA did minus the angled trigger ability and the Rx's are much more affordable for multiple vehicles. It was the best deal over all.
While the M12S was the most soild feeling system with a high degree of precision, I could only give it a very slight edge in feel compared to the Futaba. But I could see no difference in transmission speeds running .07 @ 60deg 340oz-in Futaba 9352HV servos powered an 8 amp external BEC. I did not get to test the airtronics spec servos with the M12S system, but realistically I highly doubt I would have been able to see or feel the difference at the performances already realized by the Futaba servos, from which I will say in my experience are the most trouble free servos out there hands down. I have compared them to other comparable hitec, airtronics, spekrtum, savox, and you name it brands and they have always outperformed the comp in one way or another in the end in my experience. They run very quiet and fairly cool with low feedback (electronic noise) and actually hit the numbers they claim in power and speed flawlessly while seeming to outlast most of the others I have tried in the durability dept. But servos are a whole other topic so I regress.
In the end the programming ease of the 4PX however was by far the most intuitive user friendly unit of the three.
The Spektrum system didn't even play ball in the same league as the 4PX and M12S, so it's not worth mention outside of it's more linear trigger pull and larger wheel, which I did like about it.
Now that the DX6R and SANWA M17 is out, there should be minimal programming indifference and it was definitely a move in the right direction for them and Futaba no longer hold kingship in this area.
However, none of these factors takes anything away from what I am saying about the superiority of having a wifi/bluetooth App based OS running the show.
In flexibility and bells and whistles department, the DX6R still wins whether anyone else wants to admit that or not.
In my honest opinion, having such features is the only step left for SANWA and Futaba for the future if they plan on staying relevant for the future of RC and the rapidly accelerating opensource and 3rd party apk/apps that are beginning to take precedence in our hobby.
I bought and test ran every last gen system that mattered the last flag ship go round.
I don't just say things based off of blind opinions. I literally know every radio inside and out to the point of complete disassembly and back again. There is no question the SANWA M12S was the best built transmitter with the highest degree of precision and structural soundness. But after many many runs I found the 4PX to end up being my favorite of them all.
It's much lighter, does everything the SANWA did minus the angled trigger ability and the Rx's are much more affordable for multiple vehicles. It was the best deal over all.
While the M12S was the most soild feeling system with a high degree of precision, I could only give it a very slight edge in feel compared to the Futaba. But I could see no difference in transmission speeds running .07 @ 60deg 340oz-in Futaba 9352HV servos powered an 8 amp external BEC. I did not get to test the airtronics spec servos with the M12S system, but realistically I highly doubt I would have been able to see or feel the difference at the performances already realized by the Futaba servos, from which I will say in my experience are the most trouble free servos out there hands down. I have compared them to other comparable hitec, airtronics, spekrtum, savox, and you name it brands and they have always outperformed the comp in one way or another in the end in my experience. They run very quiet and fairly cool with low feedback (electronic noise) and actually hit the numbers they claim in power and speed flawlessly while seeming to outlast most of the others I have tried in the durability dept. But servos are a whole other topic so I regress.
In the end the programming ease of the 4PX however was by far the most intuitive user friendly unit of the three.
The Spektrum system didn't even play ball in the same league as the 4PX and M12S, so it's not worth mention outside of it's more linear trigger pull and larger wheel, which I did like about it.
Now that the DX6R and SANWA M17 is out, there should be minimal programming indifference and it was definitely a move in the right direction for them and Futaba no longer hold kingship in this area.
However, none of these factors takes anything away from what I am saying about the superiority of having a wifi/bluetooth App based OS running the show.
In flexibility and bells and whistles department, the DX6R still wins whether anyone else wants to admit that or not.
In my honest opinion, having such features is the only step left for SANWA and Futaba for the future if they plan on staying relevant for the future of RC and the rapidly accelerating opensource and 3rd party apk/apps that are beginning to take precedence in our hobby.