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MyLaps update killing MRT, AMBrc DP and house transponders!

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MyLaps update killing MRT, AMBrc DP and house transponders!

Old 11-06-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by howardcano
I have read the patents. There is nothing in the claims that would protect the protocol.
I skimmed the article, but do you mind giving me a brief synopsis of what its protecting? I'm but a simple accountant, I can sorta read lease contracts but patent law is way out of my scope.


Originally Posted by billdelong
Never said I would stop using their products, but I prefer to have the freedom to make my own choice of which products I choose to purchase (and when), I'm not a fan of socialism which limits everyone to only 1 more expensive option.
Did you just compare Mylaps to socialism?

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Old 11-06-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jasburrito
Do research. Open your eyes. You tube. Everthing is a rich mans trick. Plus many other vids. We’re not in the club. Those quotes s taken out of context is like fake news. Glp. (Your a moderator remove them both) I decide to bite after you quoted me. Comedy it mostly dead. I get my laughs on the net now)
Quoted because this speaks to my soul.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by racer1812
FYI...China is a country, not a race. Try again
This is where I felt an insult was directed at me, but with collateral damage:
R/C Tech Forums - View Single Post - MyLaps update killing MRT, AMBrc DP and house transponders!

Originally Posted by racer1812
You really are a fan of Chinese Knock offs aren't you...
I hope this page here will help give you more clarity of your apparent (fill in the most appropriate/synonymous term) prejudice, hate, intolerance, xenophobia, bigotry, etc:

https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...oup-rather-tha

The moment you used "Chinese" in a derogatory fashion, you projected yourself as a racist, simple as that. My only hope is that you refrain from singling out any race, ethnicity or culture in the future so you don't create collateral insults for members of our RCTech community who happen to fall victim from your derogatory use of the word "Chinese".

Originally Posted by racer1812
My scenario if MyLaps were to take MRT to court, and this is just a guess I don't know the legalities of it..

"MRT, do you have and use unique RFID's in your PT's?"

........"No sir, all of our RFID's are cloned from MyLaps PT's sent to us"

"Do you have the ability to obtain or produce your own unique RFID's?"

........."No sir, we have to copy/clone them all from MyLaps PT's."

BANG! Gavel slams down.."MRT stop cloning MyLaps PT's"

end of story
Not so quick... the RFID protocol that MYLaps is using isn't really much different than the Bell System which was broken up specifically because they claimed ownership of the equipment in peoples homes, but ultimately consumers were granted the right to buy aftermarket hardware and could run additional outlets within their house without having to pay exorbitant fees from AT&T:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaku...he_Bell_System

Now flash forward a few decades with the evolution of cell phones, and people would also be granted the right to keep their phone numbers for life:
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...ange-providers

A person's phone number is essentially an RFID.... ironically MYLaps uses the same format of a 7 digit number that originated with the Bell System... so one might even argue that MYLaps copied Bell

Anyway, I digress... as the system continues to grow, I'd like to think that the next generation may include an "area code" just like the Bell System where each "area code" may translate to a "Track Code". MRT is bound within the constraints of the system, so cloning RFID's is no different than buying another phone to extend in my house. Once MRT legally acquired the RFID, they have the freedom to share their RFID kinda like a "party line"... they are not stealing any RFID's that people already buy from MYLaps, the only risk of overlap is from MRT to MRT, which as already discussed is statistically improbable.

Originally Posted by racer1812
Argue mine or anyone else's point all you want but bring some facts and not just ignorant opinion. Prove me wrong and I'll have no problem admitting to it..
I realize we are both passionate about this hobby and I respect that; I also appreciate having the ability to discuss this topic in a civilized fashion without anything getting personal between us.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:54 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by racer1812
howardcona, what is stopping, or why can't, MRT or anyone else obtain or produce their own unique RFID numbers to compete with MyLaps?
The question can, of course, only be definitively answered by MRT, but I can make a guess: MRT does not produce unique transponder ID numbers because their sales already meet their expectations without that option.

Many years ago, one of their main selling points was that a driver could have transponders with the same ID in as many cars as desired, which made race entry and organization easier. (I remember having to write the ID number on entry forms, but that may no longer be common practice.) I'm unsure if this is a major selling point now.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong
Once MRT legally acquired the RFID, they have the freedom to share their RFID kinda like a "party line"... they are not stealing any RFID's that people already buy from MYLaps, the only risk of overlap is from MRT to MRT, which as already discussed is statistically improbable.
Where/when has MRT legally acquired the RFID? They only get them from MyLaps/AMB PT's that are sent to them. And you still have the risk of overlap, be it a small one, when a guy shows up at my track with an MRT that has the same number as my MyLaps that I sent in, or the owner of that PT before me sent in.

(One could then blame every owner of a MyLaps or AMB PT for the fact that MRT has enough RFID's to produce transponders I guess)
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:09 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Darkgenerals
I skimmed the article, but do you mind giving me a brief synopsis of what its protecting? I'm but a simple accountant, I can sorta read lease contracts but patent law is way out of my scope.
There are several patents, so that's a bunch of territory to cover. One thing that comes to mind (since it was a neat idea!) concerned the decoder; it was a way to obtain increased timing accuracy and resolution by examining the field strength of each received packet as a transponder crossed the loop, then estimating the maximum of a curve fit to the data points. But that has nothing to do with the information contained in the packet.

I'd also bet that this method has been used long before AMB came along, but the claim was allowed.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by racer1812
Where/when has MRT legally acquired the RFID?
There is no legal obligation to do so. A transponder ID for toy cars is similar to a serial number; two manufacturers may use the same number.

However, the ethics of doing so are up to each individual to decide.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:24 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by howardcano
The question can, of course, only be definitively answered by MRT, but I can make a guess: MRT does not produce unique transponder ID numbers because their sales already meet their expectations without that option.

Many years ago, one of their main selling points was that a driver could have transponders with the same ID in as many cars as desired, which made race entry and organization easier. (I remember having to write the ID number on entry forms, but that may no longer be common practice.) I'm unsure if this is a major selling point now.
Is it not possible MRT only copy Mylaps Transponder ID codes as a way to circumvent copy right laws or patent laws?. Much the same way, your allowed to have a digital copy of any media you purchase. This would fall under how emulators are a legal gray area, and allowed to be up.

This is a total shot in the dark, but maybe MRT is taking the stance they are only giving you a backup of a device you legally paid a license fee for. I'm most likely wrong.

Originally Posted by howardcano
There are several patents, so that's a bunch of territory to cover. One thing that comes to mind (since it was a neat idea!) concerned the decoder; it was a way to obtain increased timing accuracy and resolution by examining the field strength of each received packet as a transponder crossed the loop, then estimating the maximum of a curve fit to the data points. But that has nothing to do with the information contained in the packet.

I'd also bet that this method has been used long before AMB came along, but the claim was allowed.
Thank you for taking the time, I only found one directly referencing Mylaps. Gotta love engineers, they come up with some of craziest things.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:46 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Darkgenerals
Is it not possible MRT only copy Mylaps Transponder ID codes as a way to circumvent copy right laws or patent laws?. Much the same way, your allowed to have a digital copy of any media you purchase. This would fall under how emulators are a legal gray area, and allowed to be up.

This is a total shot in the dark, but maybe MRT is taking the stance they are only giving you a backup of a device you legally paid a license fee for.
That's an interesting idea! It sounds like something a good lawyer would assert.

The transponder ID number is not addressed at all by patent law, as, loosely speaking, patents only apply to ways and methods of doing things.

Copyright law also does not apply to simple things like numbers. One cannot copyright "451". If it is jazzed up, like "Fahrenheit 451", then that's a different case.

One may believe they have "licensed" a transponder ID number, but the "license" came from the manufacturer only, with no legal basis.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:28 PM
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Stupid question maybe but since most of the legal discussion is speculation

If what MRT is illegal or infringing on patent rights then why hasn't mylaps/amb sued them or put a cease and desist notice? Or maybe they have?

Being a UK based company they would have to acknowledge U.S. patents to sell/distribute in the states - its not like where they would have some shell protection like companies do in China? Or is it the fact that they are UK based that protects them?
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:52 PM
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Boy has this thread gone south.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
Stupid question maybe but since most of the legal discussion is speculation

If what MRT is illegal or infringing on patent rights then why hasn't mylaps/amb sued them or put a cease and desist notice? Or maybe they have?

Why go thru the trouble and cost of suing them?? instead, MyLaps have re-invested their monies to upgrade their product and leave the cheap copy cat out in the cold...

Kinda brilliant i would say.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by howardcano
That's an interesting idea! It sounds like something a good lawyer would assert.

The transponder ID number is not addressed at all by patent law, as, loosely speaking, patents only apply to ways and methods of doing things.

Copyright law also does not apply to simple things like numbers. One cannot copyright "451". If it is jazzed up, like "Fahrenheit 451", then that's a different case.

One may believe they have "licensed" a transponder ID number, but the "license" came from the manufacturer only, with no legal basis.
The copyright situation isn't well defined. The AACS key is just a number but many DMCA takedown notices were issued once it leaked as it was claimed to be copyright protected. I think most or all recipients followed the takedown notices as they didn't want to fight it in court. I don't think the issue ever made it to court so it's still an unresolved debate.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:20 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by howardcano
That's an interesting idea! It sounds like something a good lawyer would assert.

The transponder ID number is not addressed at all by patent law, as, loosely speaking, patents only apply to ways and methods of doing things.

Copyright law also does not apply to simple things like numbers. One cannot copyright "451". If it is jazzed up, like "Fahrenheit 451", then that's a different case.

One may believe they have "licensed" a transponder ID number, but the "license" came from the manufacturer only, with no legal basis.
Interesting, Mylaps does issue you a new number for each transponder purchased. So in theory your purchasing the rights to use that number. Much like when you purchase a program, your issued a key. This Key inst copy righted but it represents your claim to said program.

Most likely I'm wrong about all of this, but MRT would be working in legal grey area. Having customers provide a transponder number would absolve them of any wrong doing because they are simply providing you a "backup" of a key you are claiming to own the rights to use.

I noticed on mylaps website, you can custom order RC4 hybrids with custom ID numbers. Is it possible to get 2 or 3 with the same ID? I didnt see anything mentioned on Mylap's website.

Originally Posted by gigaplex
The copyright situation isn't well defined. The AACS key is just a number but many DMCA takedown notices were issued once it leaked as it was claimed to be copyright protected. I think most or all recipients followed the takedown notices as they didn't want to fight it in court. I don't think the issue ever made it to court so it's still an unresolved debate.
I had to look up the AACS key, but thats pretty wild. This is pretty similar to Nintendo doing DCMA take downs for NES & SNES roms right before the launch of the mini classic models.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkgenerals
I had to look up the AACS key, but thats pretty wild. This is pretty similar to Nintendo doing DCMA take downs for NES & SNES roms right before the launch of the mini classic models.
This is getting off topic a bit but the Nintendo situation is legally quite different. The ROMs definitely include copyright information, it contains the whole game. The AACS key on the other hand was just a number and any website quoting the number received a takedown notice.
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