New TCS motor rules
02-03-2016, 08:06 PM
#1
New TCS motor rules
So I have to say, I'm really disappointed in the new motor rules that Tamiya America announced recently for the TCS races. Myself and my 2 boys have been racing RC for several years. The TCS races were always considered a fun race that didn't require an outrageous investment.
2 years ago we only raced touring cars. The next year we bought minis and raced two classes. This year we bought F1s and was planning to race 3. The F1 was great because other than the spec class, it was the only class where you could race the car out of the box.
I recently learned that Tamiya isn't happy sticking to 540J motors or ROAR approved motors. They want everyone to buy a specific $90 motor for both mini and F1. Motors that outside this race, wouldn't be used anywhere else.
They could have selected the Novak 25.5t motor which is used in VTA races and most racers that I know already own this motor. But instead Tamiya picks a motor from a rival company, Reedy/Team Associated.
For a company that's trying to promote it's brand by conducting these races across the country, they have certainly killed my interest in buying any more Tamiya models and racing in their event. I can't afford it, especially for just one weekend a year.
I can understand if an event is held at the national or world level, having strict standards. But at the regional level, where you're really trying to build interest in your brand, making things so restrictive and expensive seems counter productive.
I'm surprised they haven't instituted the same rules in their other classes. Maybe that coming as well. If they wanted to slow things down, it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to do so with a gear requirement. If you are going to tech motors by making sure it has the correct rotor, it's just as quick if not faster to confirm a certain pinion/spur.
I'm planning on contacting Tamiya America to voice my opinion. I urge anyone else that feels these changes are unnecessary to do the same.
(800) 826-4922
Fred Medel - Marketing Manager
Brian Matteson - Director of Operations
If anyone has any other suggestions on who to contact, please let me know.
2 years ago we only raced touring cars. The next year we bought minis and raced two classes. This year we bought F1s and was planning to race 3. The F1 was great because other than the spec class, it was the only class where you could race the car out of the box.
I recently learned that Tamiya isn't happy sticking to 540J motors or ROAR approved motors. They want everyone to buy a specific $90 motor for both mini and F1. Motors that outside this race, wouldn't be used anywhere else.
They could have selected the Novak 25.5t motor which is used in VTA races and most racers that I know already own this motor. But instead Tamiya picks a motor from a rival company, Reedy/Team Associated.
For a company that's trying to promote it's brand by conducting these races across the country, they have certainly killed my interest in buying any more Tamiya models and racing in their event. I can't afford it, especially for just one weekend a year.
I can understand if an event is held at the national or world level, having strict standards. But at the regional level, where you're really trying to build interest in your brand, making things so restrictive and expensive seems counter productive.
I'm surprised they haven't instituted the same rules in their other classes. Maybe that coming as well. If they wanted to slow things down, it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to do so with a gear requirement. If you are going to tech motors by making sure it has the correct rotor, it's just as quick if not faster to confirm a certain pinion/spur.
I'm planning on contacting Tamiya America to voice my opinion. I urge anyone else that feels these changes are unnecessary to do the same.
(800) 826-4922
Fred Medel - Marketing Manager
Brian Matteson - Director of Operations
If anyone has any other suggestions on who to contact, please let me know.
02-04-2016, 12:47 AM
#2
I totally agree! I called tamiya twice to say I was unhappy also with that motor rule
They need to change it back!
They need to change it back!
02-04-2016, 07:18 AM
#3
Tech Apprentice
What????
Are you people insane?? This free race cost to much to race?? If you don't like the rules don't go!!! Stop complaining that a race that Tamiya puts on for free cost to much. Every year it seems like it's the same people over and over again that complain. I honestly don't know how Tamiya puts up with it year after year. Please stop whining the rules changes aren't personal they are meant to level the playing field and make racing better
Shawn Conley
Shawn Conley
02-04-2016, 08:49 AM
#4
Originally Posted by User Name
Are you people insane?? This free race cost to much to race?? If you don't like the rules don't go!!! Stop complaining that a race that Tamiya puts on for free cost to much. Every year it seems like it's the same people over and over again that complain. I honestly don't know how Tamiya puts up with it year after year. Please stop whining the rules changes aren't personal they are meant to level the playing field and make racing better
Shawn Conley
Shawn Conley
To race it and not add crazy amount of money to enjoy the hobby. And yet
You tell us not to race who the hell do you think you are? What makes you think
That buying a 90.00 motor is going to make it even playing field. I say no
And why did they change only 2 classes for this rule?
Shawn if you think that people have tons of money to throw away on one race
A year? it's not a free race I purchased a 180.00 car to race how do you think
It's free race.
02-04-2016, 09:08 AM
#5
There are 2 things you may not be aware of.
The things you can do to a silver can motor to make it perform better are numerous. There was one person who was able to get a silver can motor to out-perform a ROAR stock 27 turn motor. Look up red dot motors. Even with Tamiya's RPM limit, it was still too much of a guessing game with motors.
Since the advent of brushless motors, most TCS racers wanted to shift to brushless. But as we have found out even brushless motors can be tinkered with. So the call went out for Tamiya to come up with their own brushless motor and ESC. Tamiya hasn't come up with anything. So after careful consideration (at least I hope careful) Tamiya USA decided on a high quality spec motor for TCS racing. Reedy has been a motor manufacturer for a long time. I just brought one of the motors and the quality is very good. Much better than the cheaper motors that are out there, and will hold up to the rigors of racing.
The problem with rules changes is someone is going to be pissed. Fred doesn't make changes without thinking it through. This motor change is a step in the right direction to make TCS racing more equal, and therefore more fun.
The things you can do to a silver can motor to make it perform better are numerous. There was one person who was able to get a silver can motor to out-perform a ROAR stock 27 turn motor. Look up red dot motors. Even with Tamiya's RPM limit, it was still too much of a guessing game with motors.
Since the advent of brushless motors, most TCS racers wanted to shift to brushless. But as we have found out even brushless motors can be tinkered with. So the call went out for Tamiya to come up with their own brushless motor and ESC. Tamiya hasn't come up with anything. So after careful consideration (at least I hope careful) Tamiya USA decided on a high quality spec motor for TCS racing. Reedy has been a motor manufacturer for a long time. I just brought one of the motors and the quality is very good. Much better than the cheaper motors that are out there, and will hold up to the rigors of racing.
The problem with rules changes is someone is going to be pissed. Fred doesn't make changes without thinking it through. This motor change is a step in the right direction to make TCS racing more equal, and therefore more fun.
02-04-2016, 09:42 AM
#6
Originally Posted by jiml
There are 2 things you may not be aware of.
The things you can do to a silver can motor to make it perform better are numerous. There was one person who was able to get a silver can motor to out-perform a ROAR stock 27 turn motor. Look up red dot motors. Even with Tamiya's RPM limit, it was still too much of a guessing game with motors.
Since the advent of brushless motors, most TCS racers wanted to shift to brushless. But as we have found out even brushless motors can be tinkered with. So the call went out for Tamiya to come up with their own brushless motor and ESC. Tamiya hasn't come up with anything. So after careful consideration (at least I hope careful) Tamiya USA decided on a high quality spec motor for TCS racing. Reedy has been a motor manufacturer for a long time. I just brought one of the motors and the quality is very good. Much better than the cheaper motors that are out there, and will hold up to the rigors of racing.
The problem with rules changes is someone is going to be pissed. Fred doesn't make changes without thinking it through. This motor change is a step in the right direction to make TCS racing more equal, and therefore more fun.
The things you can do to a silver can motor to make it perform better are numerous. There was one person who was able to get a silver can motor to out-perform a ROAR stock 27 turn motor. Look up red dot motors. Even with Tamiya's RPM limit, it was still too much of a guessing game with motors.
Since the advent of brushless motors, most TCS racers wanted to shift to brushless. But as we have found out even brushless motors can be tinkered with. So the call went out for Tamiya to come up with their own brushless motor and ESC. Tamiya hasn't come up with anything. So after careful consideration (at least I hope careful) Tamiya USA decided on a high quality spec motor for TCS racing. Reedy has been a motor manufacturer for a long time. I just brought one of the motors and the quality is very good. Much better than the cheaper motors that are out there, and will hold up to the rigors of racing.
The problem with rules changes is someone is going to be pissed. Fred doesn't make changes without thinking it through. This motor change is a step in the right direction to make TCS racing more equal, and therefore more fun.
It's called having good tech inspection what make you think that some one
Buying that motor you think that some one will find away to make it faster
And better the only way is to have good tech inspectors. You might be thinking
Of yourself I am thinking of other family's that purchase cars for their kids
Or young adults that spent their hard earned money and now you added
A big expense to thier car now they can't race
I say total B.S. If you want to be fair hand out motors
At the race that have been checked and dyno and return at the end of day
02-04-2016, 09:52 AM
#7
Originally Posted by User Name
Are you people insane?? This free race cost to much to race?? If you don't like the rules don't go!!! Stop complaining that a race that Tamiya puts on for free cost to much. Every year it seems like it's the same people over and over again that complain. I honestly don't know how Tamiya puts up with it year after year. Please stop whining the rules changes aren't personal they are meant to level the playing field and make racing better
Shawn Conley
Shawn Conley
Since you own a hobby store and get motors at a different cost then the rest of
Us and you race. I think you have big advantage then the rest of us
So will you donate motors at cost?
02-04-2016, 10:04 AM
#8
If you're aware of silver can motors then you're also aware there are many things you can do that are considered legal. All you need to do is put in the time, and that's something I don't have.
Yes I'm sure there are things you can do to the Reedy motor to get more out of it, but the one thing that USVTA has proven is a single source motor program works. If you open it up to any 21.5 motor, that's when the problems start. And you can see that now in the ROAR 17.5 classes.
Yes I'm sure there are things you can do to the Reedy motor to get more out of it, but the one thing that USVTA has proven is a single source motor program works. If you open it up to any 21.5 motor, that's when the problems start. And you can see that now in the ROAR 17.5 classes.
02-04-2016, 10:30 AM
#9
Originally Posted by jiml
If you're aware of silver can motors then you're also aware there are many things you can do that are considered legal. All you need to do is put in the time, and that's something I don't have.
Yes I'm sure there are things you can do to the Reedy motor to get more out of it, but the one thing that USVTA has proven is a single source motor program works. If you open it up to any 21.5 motor, that's when the problems start. And you can see that now in the ROAR 17.5 classes.
Yes I'm sure there are things you can do to the Reedy motor to get more out of it, but the one thing that USVTA has proven is a single source motor program works. If you open it up to any 21.5 motor, that's when the problems start. And you can see that now in the ROAR 17.5 classes.
I don't think you get it. I am not a professional rc racer I don't make money
Racing rc cars we bought these Tamiya cars to race out of the box to have fun
Not to throw tons of money at it. I started back in 1980s yes I have won
Some Tamiya races over the years. I am thinking of the other people you just
Turned them away from racing.
Last edited by honda1; 02-04-2016 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Add notes
02-04-2016, 07:25 PM
#10
If you wanted to make racing better, every racer would be handed a car that was built the exact same way as the next and you wouldn't be allowed to change anything. After a race you'd turn it back in. Every car would be exactly the same and racing would be really fair. But no one wants to race this way.
And just looking at the Mini class at the track I race at in years past. In the Mains there are anywhere from 3-6 drivers finishing on the same lap and within 6 seconds of each other. I doubt any motor change is going to make the pack tighter.
Tamiya, outside donating giveaways, doesn't spend hardly any money putting on these races. I probably have more out of pocket expenses. And Tamiya races are hardly free. I have to have a Tamiya car, a higher than average priced Tamiya body, expensive tires, a whole bunch of super expensive Tamiya hop ups (since 3racing hopups aren't allowed).
It also would have been nice if the rules would have been changed much further in advance and were all done at one time. Now I wonder if one of my other cars will be deemed illegal before the races start in a month.
And just looking at the Mini class at the track I race at in years past. In the Mains there are anywhere from 3-6 drivers finishing on the same lap and within 6 seconds of each other. I doubt any motor change is going to make the pack tighter.
Tamiya, outside donating giveaways, doesn't spend hardly any money putting on these races. I probably have more out of pocket expenses. And Tamiya races are hardly free. I have to have a Tamiya car, a higher than average priced Tamiya body, expensive tires, a whole bunch of super expensive Tamiya hop ups (since 3racing hopups aren't allowed).
It also would have been nice if the rules would have been changed much further in advance and were all done at one time. Now I wonder if one of my other cars will be deemed illegal before the races start in a month.
02-04-2016, 07:56 PM
#11
The way I look at is this. The mini class used to be the biggest class in the TCS. I once attended a TCS years ago and there over 50 mini's. So, a driver could buy a car for around $100 and race. When the tire requirement was added then participants were lost. When the silver cans were eliminated more participants were lost. I understand all the "voodoo" that was done to the silver cans. But, brushless motors are just as bad. The requirement for specific motor is understandable, but it's expensive.
I don't think people should be criticized for trying to keep costs down. For most of us the TCS is a one race season. I would suggest that the regional race directors could have the option of using last year's motor rules with the understanding that if you qualify for nationals you will have to run the required motors.
I understand the goal is to level the playing field and to stop some of the things racers do with brushless motors. I don't understand having the rule for GT-Pro Spec Class. The goal is to level the playing field which is admirable. I think the side effect may be less participation.
Shawn, you're correct if we don't like we should not run and I will probably take your advice. I think it's funny when you and others say it's a free race. I have to buy a Tamiya car, Tamiya tires, Tamiya hop ups, Tamiya bodies, etc. But, there is no registration fee.
Is there a reason that we don't run the rules that are used in Japan?
I don't think people should be criticized for trying to keep costs down. For most of us the TCS is a one race season. I would suggest that the regional race directors could have the option of using last year's motor rules with the understanding that if you qualify for nationals you will have to run the required motors.
I understand the goal is to level the playing field and to stop some of the things racers do with brushless motors. I don't understand having the rule for GT-Pro Spec Class. The goal is to level the playing field which is admirable. I think the side effect may be less participation.
Shawn, you're correct if we don't like we should not run and I will probably take your advice. I think it's funny when you and others say it's a free race. I have to buy a Tamiya car, Tamiya tires, Tamiya hop ups, Tamiya bodies, etc. But, there is no registration fee.
Is there a reason that we don't run the rules that are used in Japan?
02-04-2016, 08:26 PM
#13
Originally Posted by KA2AEV
If you really want to hear people complain, then run them!
They are a lot more strict that the regional race formats!
Look them up if you do not believe me!
They are a lot more strict that the regional race formats!
Look them up if you do not believe me!
02-04-2016, 08:30 PM
#14
Originally Posted by MD
You're right I should look them up. To have a site where I can read them. Thanks.
Just Google it and you'll find them!
For the Japan race you need EVERYTHING Tamiya!
Plugs ( no deans!), Batteries, screws washers etc... I could go on but just look it up and read it!
02-04-2016, 08:37 PM
#15
Originally Posted by KA2AEV
Im on duty right now but I have them bookmarked at home.
Just Google it and you'll find them!
For the Japan race you need EVERYTHING Tamiya!
Plugs ( no deans!), Batteries, screws washers etc... I could go on but just look it up and read it!
Just Google it and you'll find them!
For the Japan race you need EVERYTHING Tamiya!
Plugs ( no deans!), Batteries, screws washers etc... I could go on but just look it up and read it!
