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New TCS motor rules

New TCS motor rules

Old 03-15-2016, 09:56 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Yet impossible to implement.

If they wanted mini to stay cheap why did they run out and get red dot motors?
'like'

that was the beginning of the end.
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Old 03-15-2016, 08:21 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
If they wanted mini to stay cheap why did they run out and get red dot motors?
It was what people felt necessary to compete.
When the latest silvercan tech came out, reddots became obsolete. With the rpm limit and out of box motors turning into the 17,000 rpms, special tuning not really needed.

So my last year mini motor was turning 30,000 rpm, this years spec motor was 30,000 rpm. What is the point to the motor change?

Ok now we set an "rpm limit". This makes a spec motor pointless.

I did not buy the $100 hype, just borrowed it.

I said it before and will say it again, this lack of logic is a good way to kill a class/classes.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:00 AM
  #168  
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But what logic are you referring to? Everybody has their own idea of what is best, and those ideas are radically different.

As soon as the RPM limit was put in place, the same person making Red Dots came out with TCS legal motors, that came right up to the RPM limit. At a TCS race a couple years ago when silver cans were still in use, a friend had a bunch of silver can motors, including red dots, TCS motors, and motors he worked on himself. He also had the $250 motor analyzer to check each motor. The same brand the track was using to check the motor RPM's. Several of us had long discussions about the motor issues, and we all had our opinions. As an example, we took several motors and put them on the analyzer. My motor was the slowest. Some others had store brought motors that they did some work to. They were better than mine. Then my friend puts his TCS legal motor on, and goes to within 200rpm of the limit. In a class as spec as mini is, any HP advantage is going to be huge on the track. Then he puts his red dot motor on the analyzer. You talk about heads on swivels! Every single person at the track looked at us going "what the heck was that???" I will vouch for my friend, that motor never made it into his mini at any point during the race.

One thing that was universal was the need to go to brushless motors. Hey, that's what they wanted. Tamiya agreed, and changed the rule to any ROAR approved 21.5 motor. Well it wasn't long before a certain motor company came out with super tuned 21.5 motors, much faster than an assembly line motor, and much more expensive. So to keep things in line, the rule now is the Reedy 21.5 motor. Reedy is an excellent manufacturer, and the motors happen to be very good, although it does appear they weren't ready for the demand. This is a logical choice since the single source brushless motor has been extremely successful in the US Vintage Trans Am series.

The problem with a rule change like this is it's going to catch a few people out for whatever reason. It's impossible to please everybody, so you do the best you can. It's clear from posts on this and other threads that only a few people will drop out, and most are embracing the new motor. Sorry if that's not you, but TCS racing will go on.
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:11 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
But what logic are you referring to? Everybody has their own idea of what is best, and those ideas are radically different.

As soon as the RPM limit was put in place, the same person making Red Dots came out with TCS legal motors, that came right up to the RPM limit. At a TCS race a couple years ago when silver cans were still in use, a friend had a bunch of silver can motors, including red dots, TCS motors, and motors he worked on himself. He also had the $250 motor analyzer to check each motor. The same brand the track was using to check the motor RPM's. Several of us had long discussions about the motor issues, and we all had our opinions. As an example, we took several motors and put them on the analyzer. My motor was the slowest. Some others had store brought motors that they did some work to. They were better than mine. Then my friend puts his TCS legal motor on, and goes to within 200rpm of the limit. In a class as spec as mini is, any HP advantage is going to be huge on the track. Then he puts his red dot motor on the analyzer. You talk about heads on swivels! Every single person at the track looked at us going "what the heck was that???" I will vouch for my friend, that motor never made it into his mini at any point during the race.

One thing that was universal was the need to go to brushless motors. Hey, that's what they wanted. Tamiya agreed, and changed the rule to any ROAR approved 21.5 motor. Well it wasn't long before a certain motor company came out with super tuned 21.5 motors, much faster than an assembly line motor, and much more expensive. So to keep things in line, the rule now is the Reedy 21.5 motor. Reedy is an excellent manufacturer, and the motors happen to be very good, although it does appear they weren't ready for the demand. This is a logical choice since the single source brushless motor has been extremely successful in the US Vintage Trans Am series.

The problem with a rule change like this is it's going to catch a few people out for whatever reason. It's impossible to please everybody, so you do the best you can. It's clear from posts on this and other threads that only a few people will drop out, and most are embracing the new motor. Sorry if that's not you, but TCS racing will go on.
I agree with most of what you said, but for me this year was the cost factor. On Tamiya's website they use the following phrase, "an emphasis on keeping low costs and high fun." I am not sure that's true any more. The most puzzling thing for me was requiring the Reedy 21.5 for the GT Pro Spec Class. I saw that as an opportunity for to really come through on the phrase I previously mentioned.
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:49 AM
  #170  
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maybe Tamiya doesnt want GT Pro class to run the gambit and go down the path that mini did.. GT Pro is only in its second year. Spec a motor from the get-go since most people haven't dumped a ton of money into it 'yet'. and at the same time elminating the 'motor of the month' fiasco that mini went thru previously.

will be interesting to see if the motor spec stays the same for a few years... there is no reason to 'burn' a motor in that class.. therefore no need to buy a new one.
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:59 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by OSherman View Post
maybe Tamiya doesnt want GT Pro class to run the gambit and go down the path that mini did.. GT Pro is only in its second year. Spec a motor from the get-go since most people haven't dumped a ton of money into it 'yet'. and at the same time elminating the 'motor of the month' fiasco that mini went thru previously.

will be interesting to see if the motor spec stays the same for a few years... there is no reason to 'burn' a motor in that class.. therefore no need to buy a new one.
You could be right. I was kind of fired up for that class. But, the cost of the motor discourages people like me. May be for this class they could have given people a choice as they do in other classes. If they wanted it to be strictly brushless, how about a very short list of possible brushless motors. However, they all are not going to have a number stamped on the shaft. Oh, well it's their show.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:47 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by MD View Post
You could be right. I was kind of fired up for that class. But, the cost of the motor discourages people like me. May be for this class they could have given people a choice as they do in other classes. If they wanted it to be strictly brushless, how about a very short list of possible brushless motors. However, they all are not going to have a number stamped on the shaft. Oh, well it's their show.
One thing that I can say about this new class this that there are a bunch of drivers here that are really excited about it and we will be running the class at our local beach races!
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:20 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by KA2AEV View Post
One thing that I can say about this new class this that there are a bunch of drivers here that are really excited about it and we will be running the class at our local beach races!
That's great. I hope it becomes a popular class. There were only three at the last race.
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:42 PM
  #174  
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It only takes 10 minutes to take a spec brushless motor and double its rated rpm. In undergeared fdr 5.8 minis, rpm is king. Only way for parity is to set an rpm limit tech rule.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:01 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
It only takes 10 minutes to take a spec brushless motor and double its rated rpm. In undergeared fdr 5.8 minis, rpm is king. Only way for parity is to set an rpm limit tech rule.

Please elaborate
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:49 PM
  #176  
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Here
Attached Thumbnails New TCS motor rules-image.jpg  
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Old 03-17-2016, 10:26 PM
  #177  
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Put that motor on an actual load dyno and see how it runs then. The 11 amps doesn't look good for longevity, either.
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Old 03-18-2016, 05:27 AM
  #178  
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It was fine in mini 135 temp
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:14 PM
  #179  
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Controversial numbers there!
Thanks for posting Honda1

135 is below meltdown
but can it draw that kinda power for 3 rounds (18 minutes?)

Any motor guru out there to comment?
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:26 PM
  #180  
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Yes, it was done all day worked fine. 55 deg timing in mini
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