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Old 12-22-2010, 09:16 AM
  #14911  
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Originally Posted by hickmeister
I believe we are missing a crucial fact here? it really DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ARE DYNO NUMBERS REALLY ARE! IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT YOUR MOTORS NUMBERS ARE ON FMW TESTER????
As you all well know all these testers are not calibrated equally or the same?
I have seen variances from 500 rpm to 1200 rpm on some these different motor testers???
So really 15k to 19k it really does not matter?? FMW tester will be the final determination if you are DQ'd or not, believe me I know!!!
Just something to consider???
SH
Start using the Muchmore to Test! Just a hint
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:27 AM
  #14912  
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Originally Posted by hickmeister
I believe we are missing a crucial fact here? it really DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ARE DYNO NUMBERS REALLY ARE! IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT YOUR MOTORS NUMBERS ARE ON FMW TESTER????
As you all well know all these testers are not calibrated equally or the same?
I have seen variances from 500 rpm to 1200 rpm on some these different motor testers???
So really 15k to 19k it really does not matter?? FMW tester will be the final determination if you are DQ'd or not, believe me I know!!!
Just something to consider???
SH
Steve, the variances in the Much-more and Orion type testers is not very much. The Integy type is another matter. The problem with that unit is to get a consistant voltage to the motor being tested.

My experience with testers may well be different than yours, but the variance between tester wasn't that great as long as we were comparing testers of the same type. Not disputing your findings, just sharing my experiences with testers.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:28 AM
  #14913  
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Originally Posted by hickmeister
I believe we are missing a crucial fact here? it really DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ARE DYNO NUMBERS REALLY ARE! IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT YOUR MOTORS NUMBERS ARE ON FMW TESTER????
As you all well know all these testers are not calibrated equally or the same?
I have seen variances from 500 rpm to 1200 rpm on some these different motor testers???
So really 15k to 19k it really does not matter?? FMW tester will be the final determination if you are DQ'd or not, believe me I know!!!
Just something to consider???
SH
Fred laid out the specific test procedure and conditions in detail in the rules. It doesn't just say "[email protected]". It specifies the motor checker brands, voltage, mode, duration, interval after the race, etc.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:25 AM
  #14914  
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Originally Posted by reenmachine
Fred laid out the specific test procedure and conditions in detail in the rules. It doesn't just say "[email protected]". It specifies the motor checker brands, voltage, mode, duration, interval after the race, etc.
Exactly guys This year I wanted to be very specific on how we are going to test. This way there's no ambiguity. Much More makes our tester and they made it for Peak as well. In the brushed motor world it was one of the more common testers. You can still find these BTW. All TCS host site TECH guys are being asked to test this way. The number we came up with is fair. It allows you to break in the motor, but not much more than that.

Good luck to you tweakers out there
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:41 AM
  #14915  
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Sounds right since you said you guys tested a current crop of motors so they must have been CS brushed.

Can't get much more fair than that.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:44 AM
  #14916  
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Originally Posted by FMW
Exactly guys This year I wanted to be very specific on how we are going to test. This way there's no ambiguity. Much More makes our tester and they made it for Peak as well. In the brushed motor world it was one of the more common testers. You can still find these BTW. All TCS host site TECH guys are being asked to test this way. The number we came up with is fair. It allows you to break in the motor, but not much more than that.

Good luck to you tweakers out there
For anyone interested, with a MM or Peak-Orion tester, the step mode referred to in the rules is the #2 option in the menu. It's called the CTX Test. Run the test in the 6 cell mode. It is the best way to test as it gives definite numbers that aren't open to interpretation.

Fred, if I'm dispensing erroneous information, please clarify.

And for your information, "tweakers" really don't need luck, they just need a little time.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:52 AM
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TCS pre-mounts are in at Speedtech...more to come
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
Just checked my 2010 nats motor and it its at 16,800 then I accidently dropped it when I pulled it out of the car and now its at 17,499 with 3 times the torque. must be the damn carpet in my house.
Did you install your own carpet in the house, and if so, did you just happen to have some magnets in your pocket that accidentally dropped out and stuck to one of the nails in the subfloor?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:14 PM
  #14919  
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HUMMMMMMMM
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:14 PM
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Fred, could you give us a explanation on the gear ratio you have on ff03? Does it mean that the biggest gear you can run is a 80t or is the final drive ratio the number you are looking for?
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by C5R01
Fred, could you give us a explanation on the gear ratio you have on ff03? Does it mean that the biggest gear you can run is a 80t or is the final drive ratio the number you are looking for?
You can run a larger spur, as it can only result in a lower (higher numerically) FDR. I don't think you can exceed an FDR of 3.85 (meaning lower numerically) while retaining the gear cover, which you must do.

I interpret the rule as meaning the max FDR is 3.85 (i.e. 3.84 is illegal, 3.86 is legal). However you get there is up to you as long as the unmodified gear cover fits in place. Fred's giving you the tip that you can satisfy the rule by gearing 80/54, which basically everyone will.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by minidriver
Did you install your own carpet in the house, and if so, did you just happen to have some magnets in your pocket that accidentally dropped out and stuck to one of the nails in the subfloor?

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Old 12-22-2010, 05:03 PM
  #14923  
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Steve, the variances in the Much-more and Orion type testers is not very much. The Integy type is another matter. The problem with that unit is to get a consistent voltage to the motor being tested.

My experience with testers may well be different than yours, but the variance between tester wasn't that great as long as we were comparing testers of the same type. Not disputing your findings, just sharing my experiences with testers.
Granpa,
How much is the Integy off RPM wise from the MuchMore?
i.e. 500rpm + or - ????
Based on your testing?
I am just having a hard time believing this 19k rpm figure on the new CS brushed motor???
SH
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:45 PM
  #14924  
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Originally Posted by maxepower
I forgot to mention that due to the rain the track has been closed but I would like to open it Friday and Saturday, depending on when the break in the rain on those two day hold up! It's suppose to start raining again Saturday night
I too have some Santa gifts I'd like to try this coming weekend.
So, if the weather holds up Friday, I would like to have the track open, and if the weather is still sunny for Saturday then I think we can open it up that day also.
Opening time at the track will depend on who can show up the earliest! I'll get with Kevin and see if he can let the word out to see who will be available for both days!
Happy Holidays to everyone !
Hopefully, see you at the track this weekend!
Are there still plans to open track on Friday assuming it's sunny and if so any ideas for opening time?
At this point all forecasts call for no rain.
just checking so can make arrangements,thanks.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:20 PM
  #14925  
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I am just having a hard time believing this 19k rpm figure on the new CS brushed motor???
First thing, Steve- Step Away From The Question Mark Key.

Second thing- we use both the Much More and Orion motor testers- same unit as the Peak, etc. (check the board- they are all made by the same manufacturer). Like Granpa, we see very little variation from machine to machine as long as the optical bushing is in good repair. Last couple times I was at Aliso for a race with limited RPM, I ran my unit against Fred's to calibrate it and they were apart by less than 100 rpm.

Third thing- We tested a couple dozen CS brushed motors, not just a few. Using our standard 11 minute break-in process but no other enhancements, we exceeded 19K RPM on all but two of them. Ones that were 'dropped on the carpet' were well above that.

We then took another couple dozen motors out of the box and were able to closely approach the 17.5 limit (between 16.9 and 17.2) by just running them oiled with a little bit of VooDoo comm drops for about 12-14 minutes at 7.2 volts without a load on them.

Based on that data, we suggest that participants in TCS silver can classes be extremely careful about break-in and how much they run their motors before an event.
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