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Old 12-12-2010, 08:06 PM
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Will mini classes at carpet venues get to use any Tamiya tire? Sedans got exempted from preglued tires for carpet venues, how about minis?
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:19 PM
  #14777  
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You guys are just too nice! Makes me tear-up...and reminds me of why we are all so dedicated to our TCS "club". It's the people...
Happy Holidays All
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:38 PM
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teamstrc - I'm sorry you feel that way. I think my suggestions might help Tamiya sell more cars. I think it would be good to attract people of with limited funds, but not everyone feels that way. They need to take out the term "economical" racing structure from their goals, and "manageable cost series" from their TCS introduction. You're right if it's too expensive I won't participate. I think spec tires are a good idea.

I have heard answers like yours before. It's a simple, easy answer. But, it excludes people. Wouldn't it benefit Tamiya to open it up to more people? Wouldn't they sell more cars? Wouldn't they build more Tamiya fans? I think trying to go brushless is good idea, but why exclude other possibilities.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MD
teamstrc - I'm sorry you feel that way. I think my suggestions might help Tamiya sell more cars. I think it would be good to attract people of with limited funds, but not everyone feels that way. They need to take out the term "economical" racing structure from their goals, and "manageable cost series" from their TCS introduction. You're right if it's too expensive I won't participate. I think spec tires are a good idea.

I have heard answers like yours before. It's a simple, easy answer. But, it excludes people. Wouldn't it benefit Tamiya to open it up to more people? Wouldn't they sell more cars? Wouldn't they build more Tamiya fans? I think trying to go brushless is good idea, but why exclude other possibilities.
MD,

Yes, actually, i agree with you on GT-3 (and my previous post wasn't really aimed directly towards you...like I said at the beginning, just a neutral post to some of the opinion others have expressed) and you're right again that this type of answer has been expressed before, because in competitive race series, you'll always still see guys bitch and moan about something that don't go their way in the rules (not you ) so the same type of bitchin, usually receive the same type of answer

if there was going to be a class I would consider running this year, it would have been GT-3 (I ran GT-3 at both regionals last year and finished in the top 5 both times) and it was the first time that I was able to run the same set of tires all race day and not really see a significant disadvantage. My motor was not the fastest thing on the track, but holding it together for 5 minutes allowed me to stay in the hunt in the A-main against some of the insane motors out there (which in my opinion should have been teched...cough, alan mok...cough....too fast..mok...lol), and if they burn up, well, it's a $15 motor, and I (and my wallet) can live with that.

However, previous years in running GT-2 and GT-1, it was almost always "freshies" (new tires) every round and just to get accurate testing, the few weekends before the race, testing for setup was done on 'freshies' as well. Last year in F1, in the foam class, it was a constant finding of the right foam compounds and there were quite a few combination to choose from (and the kit tires from the 15th anniversary edition ended up being the best for me)

so what does all this rambling mean? the cost will not go down with the new rules unless we have a few more parameters in place like limiting the amount of sets of tires racers can tech in for a race day, because there will always be guys (jerks! ) like me who will run freshies every round. And possibly a lower cost brushless system (that might not be a Tamiya brand) However, this run against the idea of a business for profit (no limit on tires = more tire sales, and non-tamiya brand systems)

GT-3 was a good medium class where it was easy on the tires, motors were cheap, and overall an easier on the wallet class to step up into and still offer some really close racing. Someone has predicted that the entry level for the series will start to go down due to the brushless system requirement and the spec tire cost. Having race this series since the year 2000, unfortunately I would have to agree with that statement as the series have already gone into a steady decline over the past few years, and 2011 might see the lowest amount of entries for TCS series yet

steve

p.s. there was a call out for Hebiki earlier by someone, I can say this: he is happy shooting up some guy in milsim paintball right now...and I personally don't see him coming back to run the Tamiya blue any time soon (nor visit this thread)
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 414MPH
Tom,

Well said my friend!

Craig, to quote Maxwell Smart, "Missed it by that much". That is exactly how I felt when you simply "just out drove me" at the regional qualifyer in F-103.

After 14 years of visiting my now good friends at the Aliso Tamiya track, I am proud to say I have been out driven by some of the best! (Craig, 127 days and counting)
Marty, yeh, we've both felt the pain and I also had to run behind you and Tom Slick if memory serves me correctly.
Your bobble was what it took for me to get that one and for that I thank you and also quote Maxwell Smart in saying "Sorry about that Chief" but I'd be lying.

127 days til your next run? Gonna miss the January gig eh?
Bummer. Lookin forward to our next sessions.

As far as F104 testing, I sawed off the front wing so it was a short outing.
I really wish I could find the car that was at the Nationals cuz the handle on this car is gone and it's puzzling.

2 more days and we'll be making up our minds as to which class(es) to run in a few weeks.
My FF03 is really good and easy to drive, all the mistakes are on the driver and will really need to sort that out.
This is assuming that the approved system(s) are doable at this time.

Fingers crossed.

Tom, very thoughtful of you, again thank you.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:37 AM
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teamstrc - I think it says a lot when many of the veteran TCS are quiet. I thought I was in favor of spec tires. I guess the guys with unlimited budgets will always have the advantage. i always enjoyed GT3 for the same reasons you mentioned. I think changing certain rules for tires, wheels, and bodies has discouraged some people. I think the ever changing world of the F1 class has discouraged people. I think if you look at the most popular class, which I think is Mini, rules have remained somewhat stable, and the initial cost of the car is reasonable. I think the idea of the Tamiya brushless systems is probably good. But, the cost and the systems and the fact they don't fit categories for classes in the U.S. is going to discourage people thinking of running the TCS.

I guess my question for Tamiya is why not try to include everyone you can? Include GT3, include a TT01 spec class or anything that will draw in more people. The TC class is dwindling. Tower Hobbies sells Tamiya XBS Skyline GT-R TT01ES Sport RTR and The Tamiya XBS Lancer Evo X TT01ES Sport RTR for $180. They come with pre-painted bodies which is not good. If you limit tires, gearing, and hop ups I think it would be a good class.

I think it be outstanding to have turnouts at the TCS that rival some of the off road racing we see now.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:36 AM
  #14782  
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Originally Posted by MD
teamstrc - I'm sorry you feel that way. I think my suggestions might help Tamiya sell more cars. I think it would be good to attract people of with limited funds, but not everyone feels that way. They need to take out the term "economical" racing structure from their goals, and "manageable cost series" from their TCS introduction. You're right if it's too expensive I won't participate. I think spec tires are a good idea.

I have heard answers like yours before. It's a simple, easy answer. But, it excludes people. Wouldn't it benefit Tamiya to open it up to more people? Wouldn't they sell more cars? Wouldn't they build more Tamiya fans? I think trying to go brushless is good idea, but why exclude other possibilities.
I agree with your statement on the spec tires. I got 3 sets of the mini tires as soon as the rules came out. I now run them exclusively. It was just a matter of setting up the car to work with those tires which can be challenging. And, at least for me, that is half the fun of running minis. They are not too terribly expensive. About the same as tires, rims, and inserts purchased separtely. And the glue job and balance are first rate.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:56 PM
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I still stop in on occasions to see whats up in TamiyaLand... I won in a year there were no limitations, no spectires, no nothing. In my opinion the best way to have it. As Steve said Racing is expensive and it's meant to be fun, if you're not having fun find somthing else to do. I had to test tires, bodies and even chassis, yep chassis when I got to SpeedWeek I had 2 M03's, 2 M04's and even an M02 just to be safe. I did back to back to back runs during the week to figure out what car was the fastest. M04 was by a mile that year and quite a few others....
My point is that those who want to be fast test, to test it costs money. I didn't buy my win by any stretch of imagination. I owned 1 of the 5 cars I took. Tires I bought what I needed and when I figured out what worked I bought 1 extra pair of tires. All total I bought 6prs of tires that year for Nats.
Speedo wars were there but I figured out what made the car fast with a little bit of help from Derek Hung(he didn't know the aha moment)

Sitting back and watching now the movement started for SPEC, SPEC, SPEc about 5-6 yrs ago to even the field. People all bitched about those who spent money. Guess what now people are bitching that Spec costs too much because it's not what they have...But Tamiya did what you all asked! They made it so you had to buy 1 thing, sure it's not what you race on weekly basis but it's SPEC right?

To Fred and Tamiya thank you for the trip to Japan, yes I earned it (and more than paid for it in the years of racing) but Tamiya provided the framework and series that I could read the rules and put forth my best effort to win. I had by far the most fun in all the regional races and practice to get to the point of winning. I also made some great friends Nationally that I get to talk to here on occasion.

To all of you complaining again, Tamiya is a business, businesses make money by selling things. Small fact I know that some can't grasp. By far they provide the most marketing and fun per dollar for any of the companies that are involved in racing today. Othere have their International and National teams great for them. Tamiya has the same and they provide a Series that gives you free things, don't charge for a days racing and if YOU push hard enough you too can win a trip to Japan to race at Worlds. -hint- it's gonna cost you a few $$$ though and you better have a little bit of talent.

Looking forward to seeing what you (Fred) comes up with for TCS rules this year.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:38 PM
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What I think everything boils down to is this. There are 3 types of Tamiya TCS racers.

1. The true sportsman racer (which I think is the largest segment) that is in it just for the fun. Likes the "economical" race series that they don't have to spend alot of money on. They don't practice or test alot they may be a semi regular club racer and know where their place is. They don't have high expectations and just want to see where they compare to everyone else with the same formula. This is also the person whose idea of a successful weekend is if they had fun, had time to socialize with other racers, and showed improvemient in their personal driving. This is also the racer who would like to see more spec in the series because they have limited time to race.

2. The win at all cost racer. This person doesn't care what the costs are and will spend whatever it takes to get all the best as well as what ever is needed to figure out what the best combos are. They are a higher level racer than the sportsman and practice all the time to get better and push all the rules to the limit to get the most out of their cars. This person will buy what ever is needed to be within the rules. This is also the type of person that wins the trip each year. They put in the time, money, and efort.

3. The racer that blames not having the right equipment or the unfair advantage someone might have. This can be a higher level racer, but he thinks equipment is the answer and does not practice or learn to setup a car the way the elite racer does. This is the racer who will accuse someone of cheating and will not admit he lost because of his driving, he will only admit that someone out spent him and that is why he lost not that he was outdriven. This person wants spec but whines if he has to spend the money on stuff he doesn't have.

I think Tamiya started this series 17 years ago for racer type #1 but the series evolved to a more serious series for some. Overall I think the series is still about having fun using Tamiya equipment on many different levels. The series I think should continue to cater to all the levels that participate. The Economical conscious driver, the larger budget driver, and the spend at all costs driver.

I think that is why there are so many vocal people on this thread. And there is room for them all in this series. I am tired of people saying racing RC cars is expensive and that you need to spend money or get out. RC racing does not have to be expensive for some as long as they know their place and don't expect to place very high and they still have fun doing it. And once in awhile there might be that penny pincher that succeeds despite not spending money.

I know for me personally I hope that I won't have to spend much if any to be within the rules this year, as I don't expect to win but I will have fun and hopefully improve.

Just my 1/2 cent.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:57 PM
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So are we ready to be the most-refreshed thread on rctech tomorrow?
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:02 PM
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Heck yeh,

What time will it start?
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:27 PM
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I would have to say I am a #1 type person. My car is all tcs spec and I only get out to run TCS when I can so I don't care what the rules are so it doesnt matter. I refuse to buy into the brushless BS and will not participate in
the tekin LRP Black Diamond wars. TCS is a great series and I remember when people laughed when you said you have a Tamiya car. Now that Tamiya is right at the top people feel that they need to change. TCS is free and if you don't like it don't race. Fred tries to keep racing close and fun and if you are not doing it for fun and the most realalistic racing ,
don't blame them. Look at yourself.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:57 PM
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f1larry - Well said.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by f1larry
What I think everything boils down to is this. There are 3 types of Tamiya TCS racers.
I would have to be the one that does not fit any of the 3. . .

I will be defined by the 24.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:15 PM
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A-Ko i I don't think so, you win more than the 24.
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