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Old 10-18-2010, 08:22 AM
  #14491  
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I only wish that Tamiya had chosen the more traditional turn nomenclature that is currently in place.

If that were the case I'd be able to run the Tamiya ESC and motor year round
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:59 PM
  #14492  
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Originally Posted by reenmachine
I bet that for every one of the die-hard silver can devotees who will boycott TCS there are three racers like me who will finally race TCS largely because silver cans are out of the picture...


Not trollin'....just sayin'.
It's not a really matter of boycotting the TCS series just over motors, Pete. For some of us, it really boils down to economics. I fully understand the merits of your argument that in the long run that BL will be less expensive also.

Now I can only speak for my own situation and it is this. I race Minis primarily cause my first Mini cost me $100 with a servo, painted body, motor, and a decent set of tires. It had most of the upgrades and the others were less than $20. To make it operational it needed an esc and receiver, both of which I had. This particular car is a veteran of 10+ years of racing, and yes it probably has had every original part replaced. Budget for the 10 years has been less than $400 and that includes the replacement of the servo, receiver and the esc for other ones. Does not include batteries, tires , and new motors, which probably run about $30 per year for the motors.

If Mini racing goes to brushless, my situation becomes this. I will have to buy a new esc and motor. If TCS racing is involved, it will be a Tamiya system. If any other venue, that will require a new esc and motor to comply with their "rules". Also may have to buy more than one system to see which one is "best". Presently, I can race anywhere with a stock silvercan. Economically, it makes no sense for me to jump on the BL bandwagon. Since I have 3 Minis, multiply that by three.

Since the FF03 will be a ground up new car for me, A Tamiya BL system makes sense. Unfortunately, The Tamiya system may not work anywhere else. And so on.

Like you said, I'm just sayin' you know.

Last edited by Granpa; 10-19-2010 at 04:04 PM. Reason: small change
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:39 PM
  #14493  
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^ you are going to race 3 minis of the same class?? um yeah... and complaining about economics when you have 3 minis? um yeah...
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by reenmachine
I bet that for every one of the die-hard silver can devotees who will boycott TCS there are three racers like me who will finally race TCS largely because silver cans are out of the picture...


Not trollin'....just sayin'.
+1!
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:27 PM
  #14495  
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Originally Posted by swarb
^ you are going to race 3 minis of the same class?? um yeah... and complaining about economics when you have 3 minis? um yeah...
....and now for a complete departure from the tone of the debate we've been having...

um yeah...
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:10 PM
  #14496  
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debate? lol... more like bickering. There is a reason why NEW people don't join the on-road class... you have to throw money at it to be reasonably competitive, and people take it too seriously. Short course stock classes have blown up, costs are lower, and much less bitching about the rules/cheating and more about the fun. Grown men fighting over rules that they don't like that were made to encourage/support the new/budget racers. Complaining about $$$ issues when they have 300 dollar radios and 120 dollar packs, tire warmers, multiple cars, tcs dedicated chassis, etc etc... Racing to win has always been and will always be... pushing the limits of the "rules" and cheating without getting caught. My lipo does not fit? Ok, ill cut my chassis... they allow it, lets also cut under it and gain some weight advantages... wait... they caught me... lucky I have 3 cars I can just swap stuff around.

How many rookies do you see returning to race in a second season of tcs? FEW, NONE or Some(not the case in short course). How many racers do you see changing classes to win the plane ticket? MANY,MOST OR ALL. People take it too seriously... which scares away all the kids/newbies. I remember a time(10+years ago) when about 1/3 or more of the racers were rookies and fun was the name of the game. Why was there a "tamiya fun race"? think about it.

I went to watch the tcs finals... and I don't remember how many times I heard complaints from grown men bitching about someones motor or how they did bump passes or hacking etc, they were angry and showed it in their actions and words,, not a good way to show our kids how to have "fun"... and this was away from the pits... the rookie class? or class without plane ticket? no complaints there, just FUN FUN FUN.

I had fun at the tcs finals... but I don't think I have been to any race where there was more bitching than at the tcs finals. At different events/venues, there are pro's so regular racers don't expect to win, and they have a lot of fun just participating.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by swarb
^ you are going to race 3 minis of the same class?? um yeah... and complaining about economics when you have 3 minis? um yeah...
No, not complaining at all. Also, Pete and I have been debating this online for some time now, and the tone of the debate has never degenerated to the um yeah level. I like Pete and also listen very respectully to his arguments and try to follow the line of his reasoning. When I post a rebuttal, I try to do it with respect and consideration.

Now as to your post, anyone with an IQ slightly greater than their height in inches would know that one rarely takes 3 cars to a race for the same class. I have 3 cause one is set up for the Tamiya track, one other for the other venues, and the third as a back up for the other two. Simple. If you want to post a dissenting view, I'll listen. Did not much care for the tone of this one tho, so I did respond in kind. Not proud of it.

I was expanding on the Jeffrey Stevens post on the economic difficulties for him as he travels from the Chicago area for TCS races and likes to run GT3. Touring cars are obviously more demanding economically than Minis to convert. No, it's not just a motor and esc.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by swarb
debate? lol... more like bickering. There is a reason why NEW people don't join the on-road class... you have to throw money at it to be reasonably competitive, and people take it too seriously. Short course stock classes have blown up, costs are lower, and much less bitching about the rules/cheating and more about the fun. Grown men fighting over rules that they don't like that were made to encourage/support the new/budget racers. Complaining about $$$ issues when they have 300 dollar radios and 120 dollar packs, tire warmers, multiple cars, tcs dedicated chassis, etc etc... Racing to win has always been and will always be... pushing the limits of the "rules" and cheating without getting caught. My lipo does not fit? Ok, ill cut my chassis... they allow it, lets also cut under it and gain some weight advantages... wait... they caught me... lucky I have 3 cars I can just swap stuff around.

How many rookies do you see returning to race in a second season of tcs? FEW, NONE or Some(not the case in short course). How many racers do you see changing classes to win the plane ticket? MANY,MOST OR ALL. People take it too seriously... which scares away all the kids/newbies. I remember a time(10+years ago) when about 1/3 or more of the racers were rookies and fun was the name of the game. Why was there a "tamiya fun race"? think about it.

I went to watch the tcs finals... and I don't remember how many times I heard complaints from grown men bitching about someones motor or how they did bump passes or hacking etc, they were angry and showed it in their actions and words,, not a good way to show our kids how to have "fun"... and this was away from the pits... the rookie class? or class without plane ticket? no complaints there, just FUN FUN FUN.

I had fun at the tcs finals... but I don't think I have been to any race where there was more bitching than at the tcs finals. At different events/venues, there are pro's so regular racers don't expect to win, and they have a lot of fun just participating.
Now you have managed to insult just about everyone and not just me. I feel much better now that maybe I wasn't being singled out for your venom. You might try reading Dale Carnegie's book tho. Just tryin' to be helpful.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:52 PM
  #14499  
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Originally Posted by Granpa
You might try reading Dale Carnegie's book tho. Just tryin' to be helpful.
That's some funny stuff right there.

Swarb, maybe you're just looking in the wrong places. As much as I hate to say this, the Tamiya Championship Series North American Finals may not be the best place to observe fun-loving casual RC hobbyists in their natural habitat.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:59 PM
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I apologize for being an asshole. I can't take back my words. I was annoyed of the behavior of some of the racers at the tcs races. I am a racer myself and don't want to be associated with THAT kind of person.

Most people don't like change.
People don't want to change their setups, as they worked hard on them. Changing rules slightly to help the racing be fair and equal is great, but flipping the whole class around makes for temporary chaos and is usually aimed for the future.

Its my opinion on what I saw at the tcs races... a lot of fun and a lot more bitching. I went with my friend who is new to rc and he is stuck deciding if he really wants to race tcs or take the chance that politics will kill it. I also mentioned to him that he was going to race in the rookie class(where there is no politics). That pushed him towards wanting to race tcs. If there was no rookie class, I doubt he would race tcs.

There were at least two situations where a racer/racers friend felt strongly about how they got robbed of a podium spot because of a something that happened on track. Off track, they voiced their view/opinion with strong words and obscenities that killed the family atmosphere. One family had their young child ask their parents. "why is he so madd?" after hearing him say not so good things... I lol'ed at it... but the kid/parents? they left soon after. Not a good image we put forth to our future...

Its all fun and games until a plane ticket is involved.

Some say on-road is dwindling, some say its making a come back. Look at the turn out at tcs finals....
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by reenmachine
That's some funny stuff right there.

Swarb, maybe you're just looking in the wrong places. As much as I hate to say this, the Tamiya Championship Series North American Finals may not be the best place to observe fun-loving casual RC hobbyists in their natural habitat.
Lesson learned the hard way(for that family and kid lol). I will always have <3 for tamiya. Competition brings the best and WORSE out of us.

sorry I fuxked shit up. Look for the two old kids in rookie class not looking to win a plane ticket!!!!LOL
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
I was expanding on the Jeffrey Stevens post on the economic difficulties for him as he travels from the Chicago area for TCS races and likes to run GT3. Touring cars are obviously more demanding economically than Minis to convert. No, it's not just a motor and esc.
+ tires
My new/old tires are no longer any good for carpet and pavement in 2011.
carpet = new C compound (should be better than As)
pavement = pre-mounts

Will just keep enjoying the cars & setups I have.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
+ tires
My new/old tires are no longer any good for carpet and pavement in 2011.
...

they are still good for practice up till the new bits are released.. with the exception of the new C-tire, i dont think there will be much of a difference between what we have now and the 'premounts' that are going to be instituted.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by swarb
I apologize for being an asshole. I can't take back my words. I was annoyed of the behavior of some of the racers at the tcs races. I am a racer myself and don't want to be associated with THAT kind of person.

Most people don't like change.
People don't want to change their setups, as they worked hard on them. Changing rules slightly to help the racing be fair and equal is great, but flipping the whole class around makes for temporary chaos and is usually aimed for the future.

Its my opinion on what I saw at the tcs races... a lot of fun and a lot more bitching. I went with my friend who is new to rc and he is stuck deciding if he really wants to race tcs or take the chance that politics will kill it. I also mentioned to him that he was going to race in the rookie class(where there is no politics). That pushed him towards wanting to race tcs. If there was no rookie class, I doubt he would race tcs.

There were at least two situations where a racer/racers friend felt strongly about how they got robbed of a podium spot because of a something that happened on track. Off track, they voiced their view/opinion with strong words and obscenities that killed the family atmosphere. One family had their young child ask their parents. "why is he so madd?" after hearing him say not so good things... I lol'ed at it... but the kid/parents? they left soon after. Not a good image we put forth to our future...

Its all fun and games until a plane ticket is involved.

Some say on-road is dwindling, some say its making a come back. Look at the turn out at tcs finals....
Thanx for toning it down a bit. Actually, the type of racer you were describing is not someone anyone would like to be around. Frankly, there are very few races you'll attend that someone isn't "bitching" about something.

As far as TCS racing goes, you'll find whatever you want to find. If you're looking for the "whiners" they are there and so are the "jerks", but it's been my experience that they a small minority. You'll find that most are having a good time and that many have been competing for years with little or no expectation of winning the trip to Japan. I'm one of those people and so are a lot of others. Many of us only see each other at a TCS event cause we come from different parts of the country. The largest class was a nontrip winning class if that escaped your attention. I go to have a good time, meet new people, and renew old acquaintances.

You're right that the turnout was down, but, let's face it, the economy had a lot to do with it. And that family may have left for other reasons than the boorish behavior of a racer. In this day and age, the language that child may have heard was not a new experience, IMO. No excuse for it tho.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:13 PM
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So umm yeah... what are you guys planning on running in FF03 during practice until the new systems and motors are available to the general public? I purchased a new...ahem..."spec" speedo a couple of days before the rules were introduced (woops!) and plan to use it until I can find a Tamiya one. As for motors, which turn should I be looking into that would approximate the 18T (well, besides the 18T duh) For playing around what are you guys going to run? 17.5? 21.5? 3.5? :
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