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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 10-16-2010, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
If GT3 barely had a handful to fill a main, I could see moving on from it.
I only see this as a death nail for sedan. GT3 was the only class keeping the GT series of classes alive. Why do you think people went from GT1 to GT2 to GT3... The rules and the money.

Here we go now. To run GT1 or GT2 you have to buy new ESC, Motor and Tires. None of which you would want to run locally. Why would I want to invest in a system for 1 race? If Trackside is a no go for pavement and Memphis too much for me next year why would I want a system for 1 race! GT3 has moaning and groaning but, then why do people keep running it? I would say let the lack-of-participation kill the class, not new technology.

Sure I can run F1, which is cool but I am not a huge fan of.
I do have a FF03 but then again I have to buy a BL system.
Mini I can run but not really excited about it especially in TCS.

So basically unless I want to run F1 or Mini too bad unless I become factory driver to afford all the rule changes, making me ineligible for the series. I am surprised Mini, F1 and Spec did not become BL to fulfill the ravings of the purists.

Thanks Tamiya for the series and good luck on your future!
Any questions, Tamiya has my number!
The rules are perfect, and now you have some differentiation between the GT classes.
So you have to buy a new BL system, so what, at least you know the technology is frozen for a minimum of 2 years, this is the best news I have heard in a long time. They cant keep adding classes without losing something, and FF03 IMO is the perfect replacement for GT3, and if you noticed, you can run any TB03 or TA05 variant in GT2 now.
A far as only using the BL system for one race, with the change in ROAR rules for 17.5 I would think you can be competitive with almost any sensored controller.
Things need to change from time to time, and this is that time, and I think Fred and crew hit it out of the park.
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Old 10-16-2010, 05:01 PM
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In our area we run silver cans all the time. When I participate in a TCS race I'm not going to buy a motor from anyone else. Many silver cans get better with age. I doubt if all of the many people that run mini buy special motors. To solve any motor issues you simply have handouts like they do a nationals. I priced the esc and motor required for the FF03 and the one place in Japan was asking over $200. Why in the day and age of the dying tc class would you eliminate one of your most popular classes? If you could find an inexpensive esc and motor set up like the Hobbywing system the Mini drivers use in Australia that would make it easier. I understand the issues with silver cans, but it makes no sense to take the simplistic solution of eliminating a class. Tamiya, obviously, can do what they want, but I don't understand. Just as I've never understood the constantly changing world of the F1 Class. It was the F103, the F201, the F103GT, the F103 and the F104. I hope the season is very successful. I have many Tamiya products. I also know people planning on running the TCS for the first time in 2011 and because we run silver cans, they were to run GT3. Oh well good luck!
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Old 10-16-2010, 05:08 PM
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hm curious to see how they will address these 3 issues re BL at the races:

- rotor tuning (changing out rotors)
- changing the timing (on motor)
- changing the BBs to ceramic

I really wish someone came up with BL motor which is fully sealed & welded shut for the life of motor. That would make it truly stock!

Too bad they're not implementing BL rule to all classes...no matter what is waaay fairer (much less cheating) & equally consistent from run to run. Silver can to motors nowadays is what rotary speed controllers are to ESCs, obsolete ,and geared competitively you have to keep buying more and more & more & do a bunch of work on each before installing.

In our neck of the woods I can see Tamiya system being used in all Tamiya club classes that are using silver cans or other non-timing systems now. That would be F1 (if size fits),Mini, FF03 at the least.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:04 PM
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I understand the rules Tamiya has put in place, but in my opinion if they were going to implement BL in more classes they should have gone the way roar, or USVTA has gone. Allowing spec ESC's with 25.5, 21.5, or 17.5 motors. GT 2 should have been Limited ESC with a 17.5 or open ESC with a 21.5. FF03 should have been Limited ESC with 25.5 motor. GT1 should be Open ESC with a 17.5 motor. That would have been the more economic plan. I think what Speed Passion has developed and what Novak has been doing with their ESC's to make spec ESC's is great.

It won't really matter to me since I don't see myself doing any TCS races this year since Trackside is now only dirt and if they host a TCS event it will be in the summer during Travel Baseball season.

I will still continue to run only Tamiya cars and if finances allow it travel to an away TCS race.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by C5R01
So let's do the math. Nobody runs a silvercan besides TCS so Jeff that's excuse is BS. Let's say a person buys 2 red dots this year and 2 next year, that's 170 dollars vs. 1 tamiya esc and motor that will come in at streetvalue of 180 dollars and no voodoo to make it work. I think I will stick with the tamiya system. No more he is cheating. All the bickering about silvercan and now they fix the problem and people cry about it. Get over and let 2011 season begin.
Many places outside of TCS still run GT3, I can run it year round.
If RPM limits were 12,500 you would NOT need a RedDot and the threat alone can keep people in line.
The motor issues will not go away until everything is BL. Then as "mugler" eluded to you will have a new set of problems.
Why would I want a BL system that is double the price of ones available now and are perfect for spec, even my old ones are still good.
Nosssir!

Last edited by A-Ko; 10-16-2010 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:40 PM
  #14466  
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[QUOTE=A-Ko;8080624]
So basically unless I want to run F1 or Mini too bad unless I become factory driver to afford all the rule changes, making me ineligible for the series. I am surprised Mini, F1 and Spec did not become BL to fulfill the ravings of the purists.

Jeffrey, the proper term is zealot, not purist, although that is just slightly less apt. Jeez, some of these guys are worse than Born Again Christians.

However, I don't have my head buried in the sand or have my "cheeks" firmly clamped around my neck. I do have a HobbyWing set up ready to go into one of my Minis and will cancel plans for the 21.5 for my FF03. The FF03 will have to endure having one of my "cheater" silvercans till the proper Tamiya BL system can be purchased.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:45 PM
  #14467  
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Where do the run 18T or 16T brushless systems?
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Originally Posted by A-Ko
So basically unless I want to run F1 or Mini too bad unless I become factory driver to afford all the rule changes, making me ineligible for the series. I am surprised Mini, F1 and Spec did not become BL to fulfill the ravings of the purists.
Jeffrey, the proper term is zealot, not purist, although that is just slightly less apt. Jeez, some of these guys are worse than Born Again Christians.

However, I don't have my head buried in the sand or have my "cheeks" firmly clamped around my neck. I do have a HobbyWing set up ready to go into one of my Minis and will cancel plans for the 21.5 for my FF03. The FF03 will have to endure having one of my "cheater" silvercans till the proper Tamiya BL system can be purchased.
Thanks Grandpa for the correction "zealot".
Although I like Healot, they are a bunch of heals, the lot of them. (Meet John Doe)

Originally Posted by Granpa
Born Again Christians.
I am one of those No offense taken, understand some BACs are beyond biblical to the extreme which is not my belief, nor what I believe is in the Bible.
BAC is a way of life, living and self improvement that is not about being popular. It is being sensitive in not shoving my beliefs or passing judgement on you, down your throat or anybody else's for that matter.
To sum it up, we are not perfect, just forgiven and I will stop before this becomes a sermon.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:17 PM
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Here is my two cent regarding the rules. I understand were tamiyausa is coming from getting in touch with new technology and keeping tcs rules fair and eliminating power advantages. Also the idea of keeping it all Tamiya makes sense because this is a Tamiya event and I am all for that. I also understand the extra expense new esc and motors create. specially for us who already has a bunch of different ones in our RC bags.
Now, we also know that these ESC's can be affordable as we have seen with speed passions cirtix combo.

This is what will make or break this new rules deal. All we have to see now is the esc and motor priced as a combo at about $80 for the 18turn combo, $100 for the 16turn combo and $120 for the 12turn. Just like the speed passion cirtix system. Then it becomes affordable for every tcs racer and at that price point, we won't even mind getting the new systems.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:33 AM
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Thanks for the fun over the years TCS.

I understand the need for the new rules, but I don't understand the full lock-down on Tamiya only ESC / Motor combo from a racers standpoint (yes, Tamiya will sell quite a few brushless systems this way).

As others have already stated, a formula similar to ROAR where you have an "open" ESC class (GT1) and control the speed via motor (21.5 / 17.5) and a Zero Timing ESC class (GT2) with motor choice to control speed would have been a step in the right direction allowing racers to use Electronics they race with already (hence keeping the cost down).

Good luck to all the future racers. I still have an F1 car, but the lack of RPM limits means spending $$$ to find those golden 540 motors.

Jimmy
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:39 AM
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I too would love to see the all the BL systems allowed and a motor limit plus locked escs would be perfect.

I heard that the rumor is that not all non timing esc/motor combos are equal and that there would be crying about this combo is faster than that combo etc...

I'd really like to be allowed to run my GTB esc and LRP 21.5, Novak 17.5 or ?

Can't get excited about buying 18t, 16t etc for Tamiya races only.
Are these gonna be equal to other sizes currently running.

What is the reason for the unique sizes?

I'd be all in for 21.5 in F1, FF03, Mini etc.
Fixed gearing for all and no more messin around.

All combos locked esc.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by g12314
Thanks for the fun over the years TCS.

I understand the need for the new rules, but I don't understand the full lock-down on Tamiya only ESC / Motor combo from a racers standpoint (yes, Tamiya will sell quite a few brushless systems this way).

As others have already stated, a formula similar to ROAR where you have an "open" ESC class (GT1) and control the speed via motor (21.5 / 17.5) and a Zero Timing ESC class (GT2) with motor choice to control speed would have been a step in the right direction allowing racers to use Electronics they race with already (hence keeping the cost down).

Good luck to all the future racers. I still have an F1 car, but the lack of RPM limits means spending $$$ to find those golden 540 motors.

Jimmy
I'm willing to concede that I may be wrong on one or all of the following points, being relatively new to the TCS racing scene. The reasons for the rules are primarily economic. The TCS races were established to "reward" racers using Tamiya products and not necessarly to establish a racing series for all manufacturers and their supporters. Other makes were allowed where Tamiya did not have those items in their line except for minor items like servo savers , nuts and bolts, etc. It was also used to promote, introduce, and sell their products. This leads to a very circular line of reasoning where one thing leads to another and eventually comes back to the first thing. It also make perfect sense if you look at it thru their eyes.

There really are no "golden 540s" so save your $$$. In my relatively short career as a 540J motor "tinkerer", I've probably tweaked, tested, and "tuned" well over 500 of them and have never found a super, box stock motor yet. 99.9% of these stories are the end result of what male cows do with hay at the end of the digestive process. These types of legends were spread, IMO, by the motor gurus to cover their tracks.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:45 AM
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From a long TCS supporter, you hit it on the head Grandpa. Tamiya race, tamiya parts. I have over 30 540j at 10bucks a piece over 2 years, I would love to stick to 1 fair "tamiya" system. This will make tech and racing closer in my opinion. No special esc or bl motor. Noone to say " boo -hoo tamiya is playing favorites " like over in the VTA forum with the Novak system.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by g12314
Thanks for the fun over the years TCS.

I understand the need for the new rules, but I don't understand the full lock-down on Tamiya only ESC / Motor combo from a racers standpoint (yes, Tamiya will sell quite a few brushless systems this way).

As others have already stated, a formula similar to ROAR where you have an "open" ESC class (GT1) and control the speed via motor (21.5 / 17.5) and a Zero Timing ESC class (GT2) with motor choice to control speed would have been a step in the right direction allowing racers to use Electronics they race with already (hence keeping the cost down).

Good luck to all the future racers. I still have an F1 car, but the lack of RPM limits means spending $$$ to find those golden 540 motors.

Jimmy
That's one less opponent for us in TCS race. hehhhe J/K!
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:19 PM
  #14475  
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Originally Posted by MD
In our area we run silver cans all the time. When I participate in a TCS race I'm not going to buy a motor from anyone else. Many silver cans get better with age. I doubt if all of the many people that run mini buy special motors. To solve any motor issues you simply have handouts like they do a nationals. I priced the esc and motor required for the FF03 and the one place in Japan was asking over $200. Why in the day and age of the dying tc class would you eliminate one of your most popular classes? If you could find an inexpensive esc and motor set up like the Hobbywing system the Mini drivers use in Australia that would make it easier. I understand the issues with silver cans, but it makes no sense to take the simplistic solution of eliminating a class. Tamiya, obviously, can do what they want, but I don't understand. Just as I've never understood the constantly changing world of the F1 Class. It was the F103, the F201, the F103GT, the F103 and the F104. I hope the season is very successful. I have many Tamiya products. I also know people planning on running the TCS for the first time in 2011 and because we run silver cans, they were to run GT3. Oh well good luck!
Tamiya is a business. They are in business to sell product, not to please a bunch of inveterate hobbyists by creating a series to allow 15-year old product to remain competetive with the latest. Note that they are releasing a new TRF all-mod-cons sedan chassis, the 417, and a TA05IFSV2-R (That's a mouthful), and an M06 rear-drive Mini. And a F104W, which might actually work better than the F104 on foams.
So they are trying to sell product. The classes for the next TCS series have been chosen to...sell product.
And you, a veteran racer/producer of motors for sale, are saying you don't understand? I gotta admit, Doc, I'm surprised.
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