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Old 03-19-2010, 09:53 AM
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...and that's great for you. Really.

What we sometimes forget is that different parts of the country (and the world) have different racing cultures, and that they expect us to respect their racing culture as much as they are expected to respect the racing culture of others

So if it seems odd to you that people like to put superfast silver can motors in their cars, probably best to keep in mind that those same people are probably scratching their heads over the 12.5K rule, and would argue that their racing is just as close, competitive and fair as at your local venue.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr

What we sometimes forget is that different parts of the country (and the world) have different racing cultures, and that they expect us to respect their racing culture as much as they are expected to respect the racing culture of others
Looks like somebody just read the article on the British couple in Dubai.....
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
...and that's great for you. Really.

What we sometimes forget is that different parts of the country (and the world) have different racing cultures, and that they expect us to respect their racing culture as much as they are expected to respect the racing culture of others

So if it seems odd to you that people like to put superfast silver can motors in their cars, probably best to keep in mind that those same people are probably scratching their heads over the 12.5K rule, and would argue that their racing is just as close, competitive and fair as at your local venue.
I agree with you Doc, racers are always looking for an edge. The 12.5K limit favors racers on a budget like my self. I know its cheaper to buy a red dot..rather than buying 5 silver cans and see which one is the fastest. The only thing I know how to do is break in a motor...LOL. So for my own selfish reason I like that rpm limit rule. If I do offend you in anyway I apologize.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003
Because mini is a cheap, affordable entry level class where everyone runs identical gear ratios and motors.
Well, the identical gear ratios part is correct.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
...and that's great for you. Really.

What we sometimes forget is that different parts of the country (and the world) have different racing cultures, and that they expect us to respect their racing culture as much as they are expected to respect the racing culture of others

So if it seems odd to you that people like to put superfast silver can motors in their cars, probably best to keep in mind that those same people are probably scratching their heads over the 12.5K rule, and would argue that their racing is just as close, competitive and fair as at your local venue.
The irony of it all is how people hype mini as "cheap affordable racing" and how it is a "drivers class" and "close competitive racing" and then go out and spend three times the cost of an off the shelf motor to have a speed advantage.

"Respecting racing cultures" sounds very warm and politically correct. However, when a guy spends over $ 800.00 for a complete 416 with electronics to run a silver can motor class just to win a plastic trophy and yes, he is running a motor that has advanced timing through the magnet zapping that is over 17K, even his local competitiors thinks it is odd that he is spending so much money just to win in a slow motor class.
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:39 PM
  #12996  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Well, the identical gear ratios part is correct.
not all minis have the same gear ratio. and i have been beat by both.
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:58 PM
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Well, yes, Kevin, a lot of that stuff seems kind of weird to me, as well. Your example of the guy with the 416 in silver can is a good one, I guess...unless the other people in that particular racing culture are running new-ish X-Rays and TC5's and the like. That's what a lot of people run in this area in VTA, and I don't understand that, either. But...they seem to have fun with it.

As far as Mini being any kind of cheap and affordable, honestly I just don't see that.

What I DO see is a whole lot of guys with blingy-blingy $350 M03/M05 cars equipped with $75 Lipos, $100 speed controls, $350 DSM radio setups & $80 transponders with a $50 paint job, supported by $175 chargers, $120 power supplies, a box of tires and a couple hundred bucks in miscellaneous equipment. At the places I race (and let's be honest, the places you race as well), a crappy ESC, poorly charged battery or glitchy radio setup puts you out of the hunt, regardless of your driving skill. So to a lot of those guys- and admittedly not everyone is part of that group- spending money for a Red Dot is no different than trying out a new set of tires and inserts. If it works, great. If it doesn't make them faster, they'll try something else.

You'll never hear me telling people that Mini is an inexpensive way to get into racing. It costs as much to be competitive in Mini (no matter what motor is in the car) as it does for any other class, and to be successful it demands the same level of driving skill as any other class, regardless of the motor that's in the chassis.

Everybody talked trash last year about how RayK and I did so well in the regional events only because we had horsepower...but when it came to the Nats we showed up at the last minute (no week-after-week of practice time), used the same low power motors as everyone else (that were not a blind draw, I might add), and both of us made the A in what I would consider a pretty talented field. RayK finished 2nd...not bad for a guy whose success is supposed to be tied solely to power and not on drivng ability. My 9th was a true reflection of my age and ability.

Cost controlled racing is easy if you're willing to set up and mandate the rules, and if the local racing culture supports it. Senior Spec- a class that seems to be gaining momentum across the country- is TRUE cost-controlled racing, but a class like that isn't for everyone. Why? Because at the end of the day, there's only a small subset of racers who want to have their purchases limited to the few options permitted by a good set of CCR rules.

FX35- no offense intended, and like with Kevin, none taken. We're all bruthas here, even though we don't always agree on everything.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:20 PM
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Default parity in mini racing

When everyone talks parity in mini racing, they always talk about the silver can rpm. But doc brought up an even more important point. The guys that win mini do a lot more than just strap in a red dot silver can. What about the time spent trying different setups, different inserts, and different lines around the track? If you look at any racer who consistently wins, one of the keys to their success is the time they put in. Along with that time comes the cost of having 7 or 8 complete sets of mini tires with different inserts, etc. Since each mini tire set is about $30 (4 tires, rims, inserts,) that come to over $200 in tires alone. When you add doc's list of goodies for the mini's, serious mini racers have at least $500 in their mini, how's that for cost controlled racing.

I find it funny when racers complain about an extra $25 for a red dot, while they have $200 in hopups on their mini and a box of mini tires.

The only way to have true cost controlled racing where everyone is equal and the only factor is driving skill, is to have guys show up at the track, be given an rtr mini and drive it.

The ultimate solution to mini power is to spec a brushless system, such as the $70 hobbywing 13t system (motor, esc, programming card.) This will end all the banter about silver cans once and for all. The hobbywing system has the speed of a black can and significantly more torque, which really lets driving skill shine. What does everyone want to bet that the same mini drivers will win with that system that win now?

As for the trash talking involving ray k, the simple truth is that he can wheel the mini, and that he puts a lot of time into his mini to make it both fast and handle. This year Ray K won the local tcs with an m04, last year it was the m03, and guess what, they are both fast and handle great. Based on how well his mini m03 ran at the local tcs last year, I am pretty sure he would have won with that same m03 this year. It's not all about straight away speed.

Please stop crying and whining about money and fairness. Based on all of the competitive mini's I've seen, the red dot silver can would be the cheapest thing on the car.
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:22 PM
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Don't mind me, just passing through with some positive reinforcement for TCS....doing my part to get it into the mainstream, writing race reports for an online "newspaper". Enjoy, and please let me know if you catch any errors, the Jlap system isn't easy to decipher qualifying results from.

TCS Race #151 in the news, sort of.
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:37 AM
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That's one heck of a sweet writeup, Greg. Also glad to see it's in the Examiner- mainstream, baby!!!
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Well, yes, Kevin, a lot of that stuff seems kind of weird to me, as well. Your example of the guy with the 416 in silver can is a good one, I guess...unless the other people in that particular racing culture are running new-ish X-Rays and TC5's and the like. That's what a lot of people run in this area in VTA, and I don't understand that, either. But...they seem to have fun with it.

As far as Mini being any kind of cheap and affordable, honestly I just don't see that.

What I DO see is a whole lot of guys with blingy-blingy $350 M03/M05 cars equipped with $75 Lipos, $100 speed controls, $350 DSM radio setups & $80 transponders with a $50 paint job, supported by $175 chargers, $120 power supplies, a box of tires and a couple hundred bucks in miscellaneous equipment. At the places I race (and let's be honest, the places you race as well), a crappy ESC, poorly charged battery or glitchy radio setup puts you out of the hunt, regardless of your driving skill. So to a lot of those guys- and admittedly not everyone is part of that group- spending money for a Red Dot is no different than trying out a new set of tires and inserts. If it works, great. If it doesn't make them faster, they'll try something else.

You'll never hear me telling people that Mini is an inexpensive way to get into racing. It costs as much to be competitive in Mini (no matter what motor is in the car) as it does for any other class, and to be successful it demands the same level of driving skill as any other class, regardless of the motor that's in the chassis.

Everybody talked trash last year about how RayK and I did so well in the regional events only because we had horsepower...but when it came to the Nats we showed up at the last minute (no week-after-week of practice time), used the same low power motors as everyone else (that were not a blind draw, I might add), and both of us made the A in what I would consider a pretty talented field. RayK finished 2nd...not bad for a guy whose success is supposed to be tied solely to power and not on drivng ability. My 9th was a true reflection of my age and ability.

Cost controlled racing is easy if you're willing to set up and mandate the rules, and if the local racing culture supports it. Senior Spec- a class that seems to be gaining momentum across the country- is TRUE cost-controlled racing, but a class like that isn't for everyone. Why? Because at the end of the day, there's only a small subset of racers who want to have their purchases limited to the few options permitted by a good set of CCR rules.

FX35- no offense intended, and like with Kevin, none taken. We're all bruthas here, even though we don't always agree on everything.
Yes Sir..we're all brothers. I love racing minis since all the guys are great and willing to help you out..well not just minis..all classes. I started racing minis this year and I am hooked.

Doc..I'm happy to know you..another brother.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:13 AM
  #13002  
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wow, so many postings regarding silver can motors...and almost nothing about Tamiya cars.

Tamiya cars are quality items with fully adjustable suspensions and gearing. You can find the sweet spot for your motor and more importantly for your track conditions.

Whoever said the bit about spending time and money to practice and find the best setup hit it on the head.

Motor after motor was pulled and checked after qualifying rounds and finals. 11,000 rpms motors have won races - that should be more than enough information to make TCS racers realize setup is the key, not motors.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe
Don't mind me, just passing through with some positive reinforcement for TCS....doing my part to get it into the mainstream, writing race reports for an online "newspaper". Enjoy, and please let me know if you catch any errors, the Jlap system isn't easy to decipher qualifying results from.



TCS Race #151 in the news, sort of.
Excellent write up Greg, always good to get exposure for this great series! See you at Jackson.
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:06 PM
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Guys, any idea what tires and inserts are suitAble for the gt2 class at the tamiya circuit later this year?
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:50 PM
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Default Practice and testing do make a difference

Bill J and Doc, one thing I totally agree with you both and it is never said enough, the "fast guys" are usually the ones that practice their skills and willing to spend their time and money to test differentr set-ups, body types, tire and insert combo's etc. to see what is faster for them (and that is related to speed, cornering and suiting their driving style). Then you will always have people to post "hey, what is the best body, tire, insert, chassis set-up, gear ratio, etc. to use ?" My answer to them is very simple..... go spend your money and your time to try different things to see what works best for you, just like the rest of us do.
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