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Old 02-19-2010, 01:40 PM
  #12766  
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Originally Posted by pirate
Hi,
Is the Aliso track going to be open for practice if it rains tomorrow morning?

Thanks!
you can run in the rain if you like. but i dont think the normal "set up crew" will be out there if its raining.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:41 PM
  #12767  
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
Hey Kriss - I talked with mickey and he said he will be there for the regional.

BTW i put magnets in the motor not in my pockets there is a HUGE difference.
good to hear he's coming out (esp with what happened last year. tell him i still have his rotors. )

thats right, you're NOT magnet pants..

see you next week.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:50 PM
  #12768  
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Originally Posted by Tsquare
Fred is on target with all the rule changes this year - In reading through this thread, most of the posts are from full-time racers, the guys out every weekend racing. I will chime in as a part-time racer with constraints of time and cost.

For the full-time racers without constraints - they can race anything at any time at any cost to be competitive, they make top level racing fun to watch.

But, as a part-time racer, even though I am serious when I race - the constraints of time and cost come into play in my racing decisions. I have raced TCS since 2004. IMHO it's the best run onroad race series for all levels of racers and a great introdution to racing for new racers - it's a tremendous series, racing bargin and I have had fun every year of TCS racing that I have done since 2004.

Stating the obivious - what makes TCS approachable for so many racers (young, old, fast, slow, rich, poor, etc) are the well thought out racing classes - for the most part they are spec'd according to speed and / or "committment level" . In years past, including last year, GT2 was fast enough to be fun, yet "spec" enough to be reasonable to race. This year to race GT2 you will have to buy "the ESC" (upgrades costs come with every new year of racing) but more importantly the speeds will probably be leaving the range (to fast) for the typical GT2 racer. I know in reading this thread that many may have the opinion that racing is spending money, going faster, GT3 exists, and step up or step out of the way - I do not completely agree or disagree with that train of thought, but there is a benefit to having a well spec'd class like GT2 stay true to its initial goal of being the mid-point in speed and spec racing between GT3 and GT1, because for many racers GT2 is fast enough to be fun and "spec" enough to be reasonable to race full or part-time and at the end of the day its all about having fun with your racing and a having reason to come back to the track.
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
You just sang my tune brother!
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:55 PM
  #12769  
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
you can run in the rain if you like. but i dont think the normal "set up crew" will be out there if its raining.
Will the gate be unlocked? I have no problem running in the rain.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:24 PM
  #12770  
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Default calling TCS F1 drivers

Rain or shine, come and get some race practice Sunday @ WCRC with the UF1 junkies.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:05 PM
  #12771  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
All sounds good. So, if you are a part time racer just out to have fun, then I expect you will also not have a problem being in the B main and respecting and cheering those who do race full time and do work on set-up, power AND driving to be able to go faster battling it out in the A main ?

Do you have to buy a Tekin to race in GT-1 or GT-2 this year ? No ! You can run the same set-up as you ran last year. Now, if you want to win today , yes, you probably need a Tekin. But for all those that keep emphasizing the "fun" part of the series, does it also mean you can only have fun if you win ? The better drivers will adapt and handle the power, the lesser skilled drivers will not. Just as it always has been.

I think people forget TCS is a competitive race series that does offer an expensive trip to Japan for three lucky winners at the end of the year. I guess I am not one of those people that want to keep driving at the same skill and speed level for the next ten years waiting for the faster guys to win the trip so I can be "next in line".

Yeah, the Tekin has stepped up the playing level and is "THE" esc to have in GT-1 and GT-2 right now. However, last year the LRP SPX was "THE" esc to have before the Nationals and there was no huge outcry when some (I ran the same KO I ran all year) bought that esc to have a competitive advantage. And yes, the SPX was faster on the straights when you ran profile 8 with turbo boost.

As for costs, a $ 170.00 Tekin today is equal or less than the cost of three brand new "matched" Nimh batteries the top drivers battling in the A main would be buying before the first regional of the year just a few years ago.

It will sure be nice getting the first couple of regionals back under way so we can see if the fast drivers from last year are still the fast drivers to beat, or if some mid pack B main driver suddenly make the podium in the A just because he "bought" his speed, be it a esc or a silver can motor. It will also be nice to hear how the new F104's perform this year.
I am not disagreeing with your comparisons. But dont you think its a bit unreasonable for one piece of equipment to change the entire scope of racing?
I just bought a second KO BMC thinking that they would catch up to the Tekin.
Its not just the $170 for the controller, its the fact that stuff that is less than a year old isnt even close to being competitive, and its not just the speedos, its batteries, its motors. Im not knocking the rules, but why did the motor rules have to change?
Sure I can run my year old X11, but is it competitive?
When we ran brushed motors, it was understood that the motor and the batteries had a lifecycle, and that was the price of entry.
With all this great technology, everything is capable of lasting longer, yet we are still treating it as disposable, it defeats the purpose of the great engineering that went into those products.
You guys run every week at Aliso, so its damn near like having 52 TCS races a year.
I will probably end up buying a Tekin for Trackside against my better judgement. Do I want to , no, I could have bought one instead of the KO, but I wanted to stay consistent. Do I think I can win Trackside? I would like to think I am capable of making the A as I did last year. You always comeback with how racing costs money, and we should just suck it up. I have repeatedly said that I dont have a problem parting with my money, but I tend to like to make my expenditures a little longer lasting than they are at the moment.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:22 PM
  #12772  
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I think it's fine if people want to spend big bucks for an esc, which could change as easily as it came, brushless, lipos, etc. My observation on a local level is that touring cars are not as popular as they once were. Cost is a factor. If you look at the rebirth of off road with the Slash phenomena. Tracks have set up Slash Spec classes and veterans and rookies are having fun. If you go to a Slash class race you see a lot of laughing on the drivers stand. Tracks are also offering the mod Slash class. But, for $200 bucks you buy a rtr Slash and race. I think if you look at the constant success of the mini class in the TCS. It's very similar. It's an inexpensive chassis, lots of room on the track, people of all ages competing at various levels and they enjoy it. I think Fred and Tamiya are trying to create a series for a variety of interests, cost levels and competition levels and i applaud them for that.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:42 PM
  #12773  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I am not disagreeing with your comparisons. But dont you think its a bit unreasonable for one piece of equipment to change the entire scope of racing?
I just bought a second KO BMC thinking that they would catch up to the Tekin.
Its not just the $170 for the controller, its the fact that stuff that is less than a year old isnt even close to being competitive, and its not just the speedos, its batteries, its motors. Im not knocking the rules, but why did the motor rules have to change?
Sure I can run my year old X11, but is it competitive?
When we ran brushed motors, it was understood that the motor and the batteries had a lifecycle, and that was the price of entry.
With all this great technology, everything is capable of lasting longer, yet we are still treating it as disposable, it defeats the purpose of the great engineering that went into those products.
You guys run every week at Aliso, so its damn near like having 52 TCS races a year.
I will probably end up buying a Tekin for Trackside against my better judgement. Do I want to , no, I could have bought one instead of the KO, but I wanted to stay consistent. Do I think I can win Trackside? I would like to think I am capable of making the A as I did last year. You always comeback with how racing costs money, and we should just suck it up. I have repeatedly said that I dont have a problem parting with my money, but I tend to like to make my expenditures a little longer lasting than they are at the moment.
I use my same Tamiya cars for all my racing so maybe I look at costs in the big picture of racing, not just for a TCS event. I too own a KO BMC brushless and am looking forward to software upgrades from them in a few months to be up with the Tekin's. As for motors, I am running the same motors I ran last year in GT-1 and GT-2 as well as local 17.5 and 13.5 class races. Batteries, I bought one new one for this year ($ 70.00 for a 5000 mah lipo) so now I have three good lipo's. I was planning to buy an additional esc this year, I guess I waited for the right time. So overall, I see a reduced cost to my racing with today's technology than I did a few years ago with Nimh batteries and brushed motors. I guess I figured out a secret to making my expenditures last at least a year or more.

As for RTR Slash classes becoming more popular, big reason is there is nothing much to do to set up or chassis changes. Want the same in sedan racing ? Make GT-3 the "pure spec class" with chassis based on say the TT-01E with the Tamiya esc and stock silver can, no magnet advanced 15,000 + RPM stuff. Now, float that idea for TCS and see how many people complain why they can not do this or that to the cars. It's like talking about keeping GT-2 spec and slow for the major good, and yet people are running GT-3 with tuned silver cans that cost $ 45.00, $150.00 speed controls, $ 100.00 + steering servo's and $ 200.00 radios. How is that keeping costs down ?
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:07 PM
  #12774  
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Actually there are a lot of adjustments, set ups etc. that can be done on the Slashes and the other short course trucks. There were several people that suggested a spec class for the TCS like the very successful one started in Maryland. I personally don't care if people want to spend a lot of money or a little money on their cars for whatever class. That's their choice. But, I think it's worth looking at what the VTA series has done to equalizing racing. I also believe that the popularity of the TC class has dropped off and cost is a factor. I think there's room for all kinds of classes. In one carpet track in our area they will have 50 or more entries of SC trucks and off road vehicles on a Friday night. A few years ago many of those drivers would be racing touring cars.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:28 PM
  #12775  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I use my same Tamiya cars for all my racing so maybe I look at costs in the big picture of racing, not just for a TCS event. I too own a KO BMC brushless and am looking forward to software upgrades from them in a few months to be up with the Tekin's. As for motors, I am running the same motors I ran last year in GT-1 and GT-2 as well as local 17.5 and 13.5 class races. Batteries, I bought one new one for this year ($ 70.00 for a 5000 mah lipo) so now I have three good lipo's. I was planning to buy an additional esc this year, I guess I waited for the right time. So overall, I see a reduced cost to my racing with today's technology than I did a few years ago with Nimh batteries and brushed motors. I guess I figured out a secret to making my expenditures last at least a year or more.

As for RTR Slash classes becoming more popular, big reason is there is nothing much to do to set up or chassis changes. Want the same in sedan racing ? Make GT-3 the "pure spec class" with chassis based on say the TT-01E with the Tamiya esc and stock silver can, no magnet advanced 15,000 + RPM stuff. Now, float that idea for TCS and see how many people complain why they can not do this or that to the cars. It's like talking about keeping GT-2 spec and slow for the major good, and yet people are running GT-3 with tuned silver cans that cost $ 45.00, $150.00 speed controls, $ 100.00 + steering servo's and $ 200.00 radios. How is that keeping costs down ?
Tamiya cars are all I run too
Im not tryin to make this a budget deal or a spec thing, im just saying I would like to show up at a race and know I have a chance thats all
If I spring for the Tekin, how long till thats obsolete
Its a never ending deal, thats the frustrating part
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:28 PM
  #12776  
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Originally Posted by MD
Actually there are a lot of adjustments, set ups etc. that can be done on the Slashes and the other short course trucks. There were several people that suggested a spec class for the TCS like the very successful one started in Maryland. I personally don't care if people want to spend a lot of money or a little money on their cars for whatever class. That's their choice. But, I think it's worth looking at what the VTA series has done to equalizing racing. I also believe that the popularity of the TC class has dropped off and cost is a factor. I think there's room for all kinds of classes. In one carpet track in our area they will have 50 or more entries of SC trucks and off road vehicles on a Friday night. A few years ago many of those drivers would be racing touring cars.
I never understood what the fascination with 4wd TC's was.
If cost is truly a factor 12th scale never would have died off.
At least the fun cars are making a comeback
F1 & 12th scale, direct drive ftw
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Tamiya cars are all I run too
Im not tryin to make this a budget deal or a spec thing, im just saying I would like to show up at a race and know I have a chance thats all
If I spring for the Tekin, how long till thats obsolete
Its a never ending deal, thats the frustrating part
On the other hand, showing up with a out of the box Silvercan turned into something obsolete, very sad to see that's where it went.
Fred is steering the ship in a good direction, and it's a good time to be back
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX
On the other hand, showing up with a out of the box Silvercan turned into something obsolete, very sad to see that's where it went.
Fred is steering the ship in a good direction, and it's a good time to be back
No argument there, ridiculous to have to have a "motor guy" for silvercan
but thats what it came down to, so thats where its at, thats where i'll go
Just to clarify, not a shot at any one person, kind of the state of the whole hobby
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:02 PM
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Different types of costs in racing.. Needed, and Nice to Have..

Nice to Have (which is usually purchased once and lasts for year before obsolete).. SuperServos, Aluminum bling, Carbon bits, Trick bearings and balls, Low friction belts, yadda yadda yadda.. Those things are cool, but not really needed to keep you in the running in fierce racing conditions in a GT2 class.. Definitely not things that are needed to be replaced and/or upgraded every season or few months for that matter.. So yeah, peeps spend money on those things, but don't have to very often just to stay competetive.. So in essence those are low-cost..

Needed (required to stay with the pack)..Now with the speedo of the month where they are being revised, tweaked and boosted more and more just months apart with substantial differences.. That is high cost.. No fun...

I remember when and why we all pushed to go with LiPo and Brushless.. Less maintenace from wear and tear (in general). And they lasted forever compared to the predecessor.. I.e. Lower cost..
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:17 AM
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Hey there guys, I usually don't get envolved with posting my opinions but I wanted to say that when everyone here talks about the cost of racing and that certain speed controls should be banned because of the price of them I kind of find that a little rediculous. I hear things like speed control of the month and other catch phrases and I have to ask myself what are they really talking about. When the debate between the novak gtb and lrp speed control was out everyone said you have to get the lrp because it is faster, so people went out and bought it for the advantage, the same goes for the lrp spx. Since it was faster then the tekin at that time people went out and bought it for 200.00. I personally went with the tekin which was 165.00. The great thing about the tekin was that the software updates are free, and guess what? I still have the same 165.00 speed control I bought last year. If you really want to talk about the cost of racing why don't we limit the amount of tires you can run at an event. I don't seem to be hearing guys complaining about the cost of running one run tires to keep the advantage.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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