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Old 02-01-2010, 11:30 AM
  #12541  
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How about this for 2011 Rules-

GT1 - Any Motor Any Speedo Any Lipo - Open Mod Basically
GT2 - Wiper Speedo / Black Can RPM limits - Only one type of battery -
GT3 - See GT2 except Silver Can RPM Limits
Mini - Whatever I deem legal at anytime depending on how my car is running basically rules in mini would change as my attitude did and if I liked the other competitors
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:31 AM
  #12542  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
.. but wont grow balls and try and throw the money at a win in GT1, where the real 'BigBallers' should be..
I don't know, I was just going by what you were saying about money, unless "BigBallers" means something else? The other kind of balls maybe.

It's okay, man it's cool. We can agree to disagree. But I'd like to hear what you think the "spirit of GT2" is?
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:32 AM
  #12543  
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
How about this for 2011 Rules-

GT1 - Any Motor Any Speedo Any Lipo - Open Mod Basically
GT2 - Wiper Speedo / Black Can RPM limits - Only one type of battery -
GT3 - See GT2 except Silver Can RPM Limits
Mini - Whatever I deem legal at anytime depending on how my car is running basically rules in mini would change as my attitude did and if I liked the other competitors

zip it!! FRIEND!
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:38 AM
  #12544  
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Originally Posted by Morbo
...

.... But I'd like to hear what you think the "spirit of GT2" is?
well, lets me paste TAMIYA's definition of GT1..

"The GT-1 class is the ultimate for Touring Cars in TCS. Here advanced hobbyists and racers get to race in a formula that has the most exotic cars available from Tamiya. If speed and exotic cars are your thing, this is the right class for you. This is the State-of-the Art class for GT."

sounds like GT2 is/ is-turning-into that with the advent of these 'tricky speedos'


Last edited by OSherman; 02-01-2010 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:39 AM
  #12545  
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If high end speed controls can be used in any class then in the introduction of the rules for the TCS, the words "manageable" cost needs to be changed. If there is no speed control limit for the silver can classes doesn't that make the rpm limit useless? If you follow the VTA forum you can see the problems they have had with these speed controls.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MD
....If there is no speed control limit for the silver can classes doesn't that make the rpm limit useless? If you follow the VTA forum you can see the problems they have had with these speed controls.
ESCs don't make much discernible difference in brushed motor applications. The issues in USVTA and RCGT are centered around the brushless ESC war.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:12 PM
  #12547  
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Greg Sharpe - Thanks, I didn't know that. I a very low tech, old guy. I was just going by the Tekin web page where it says it will drive a ll types of motors. I think GT2 will become a more expensive class with requirement of an IFS chassis.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:08 PM
  #12548  
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I was reading the rules for Mini. It list these tires: 50683, 50684, 53254 and 53340. I guess that means that these TAMIYA Mini tires are illegal: 53222,53215,50568. Is that correct?
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:05 PM
  #12549  
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everybody stop posting.. i need to get more popcorn.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:35 PM
  #12550  
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
so i shouldn't mention 2004? (where you eventually beat out 3 future TCS champs?)

Code:
     ---- Multiple A Main Scores ----

pos t.pts e.pts      1st 2nd 3rd   laps/time     name
 1   200     0  .... 100 100   0 39/10:01.13   LING-KANG TONG     
 2   198    97  ....  98  97 100 58/15:26.10   ORLANDO SHERMAN    
 3   196    95  ....  97  95  99 57/15:18.22   CORY WHITEMAN      
 4   195    92  ....  92  99  96 50/13:34.15   STEVE WANG         
 5   194    95  ....  95  96  98 57/15:26.50   MARTY HAGEMAN      
 6   193    94  ....  96  94  97 57/15:30.27   EDGAR FIALLOS      
 7   192    93  ....  94  98  93 47/12:42.24   ANTHONY FUNG       
 8   190     0  ....  99  91   0 32/5:23.85    COREY LEWIS        
 9   187    93  ....  93  93  94 57/15:40.54   TRAVIS LAWRENCE    
10   187    91  ....  91  92  95 36/10:16.05   MARC MENDOZA
dont worry.. my claymores will still cover your blind spots in Modern Warfare 2
Oh hey!!! would you look at that! That's when I used to be kinda, just a little, fast! Those days are long gone...

Steve
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:57 PM
  #12551  
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The biggest problem I see with GT1 is the drop in popularity, at least at the events I usually attend. Last year I was all set to run GT1 in Memphis with my TA05, but I was the only GT1 car there and had to drop down to GT3 (I didn't have an IFS car at the time). If I had a 416, I wouldn't have been able to run at all. And since we don't run on-road around here, I have no use for a 416 outside of the TCS. That's why I kept my TA05 (now IFS) and why I choose to run GT2. Not cherry picking, not sandbagging; just no option of running GT1.

Now let's assume that there are enough cars to run GT1. I know that I would be at a decided disadvantage running my tub in GT1 against a deck car such as the 416 from a weight perspective. Sure I could get titanium this and aluminum that and get it within 50-75 grams, but that's still a lot for me to spend on a once or twice a year car. And if you raised the weight limit, would the 416 guys really want to add that much lead to their cars?

I'm actually in favor of a spec speed control for GT2 (NEXT YEAR), since my cars are TCS-specific. But I think overall you would hurt attendance in GT2 if you went that direction, because there are several guys out there who have the opportunity to run sedans year round, and would more than likely run whatever it took to be competitive at the club level. So to them, a spec ESC would create a situation where they would most likely be forced to buy an ESC for the TCS race. This would not be good for the series IMO.

So what do you do? Obviously you want a measurable performance difference between GT3 and GT2, but the black can doesn't really offer that much more performance. Will brushed motors be around long enough to even consider dropping GT2 back to "low-tech" 27-turn ROAR motors? Maybe that's the option for 2011. But who would that tick off?

I don't envy Fred one bit. He sets the rules and we all live by them. All that I ask is that they remain consistent for the 2010 season.

See you in Omaha!
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:23 PM
  #12552  
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I took advantage of getting the free "Tamiya Master Modeler" book (via Tamiya USA on a $75 purchase) written by Shunsuke Tamiya. A chapter that got my attention in the book was in the mid 60's slot car racing in Japan was the craze. Usually only business professionals could afford it and kids could not. Eventually it became geeky and fanatical to grow rapidly with custom chassis, souped up motors and other insanely expensive crafted products. It eventually became those with the most money in their cars wins. Between banning school kids (for being immoral), the thought of it being discriminatory and unable to foster beginners, it crashed hard and disappeared totally. It seems to parrallel issues with RC racing and maybe even TCS.

People probably don't run GT1 because nobody really runs 13.5, I know they don't in my area anymore once ROAR changed its rules. GT2/17.5 stock has been ran but the expensive controllers do have an advantage.

The issue with TCS racing is mandating a product that might be inferior on a local level or too expensive to justify for one race. Tamiya has been keeping the series going but the hard pill to swallow are the rule changes that happen every year. Some of it via Tamiya some of it via other manufacturers. Some of us fanatics do put the time in, even though it may not seem like it in our TCS results, doing homework on products, especially motors and ESCs. I like long term type of investments, not short term where I have to dump it after 2 months and take a loss.

What would I like to see, perhaps a 2 year Lock-Down commitment on the more expensive items like ESC's. I know Tamiya has connections with Novak, why not get Tekin on board too. They could make GT2 GTB style ESC's and GT1 any GT2 ESC or Tekin RS. I would consider GT2 Spec 17.5 and GT1 Spec 17.5 and ROAR 17.5. After 2 years they can review the state of the ESC's and then make another 2 year commitment. In this way it will allow TCS racers not to panic in the ESC war yet have something doable locally. Plus Tekin/Novak being both USA companies will have easier support and perhaps give TCS racers significant discount.

If something like this works well, it could help the local tracks to follow the same direction in class creation.

/e pops some popcorn for Hebiki
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:52 PM
  #12553  
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I was trying not to get in the middle of this, but I will add my $.25 as usual.
I just bought a KO BMC 1.5 last week, my other KO is at KO getting the 1.5 upgrade. I put the new 1.5 in my TB03 and took it to the track for the first time on Sunday. In 17.5 I might as well have been running a silver can.
Now, to quantify this I was running against guys who race at least once a week, vs. me who is lucky to get out once a month. However the difference between my BMC 1.5 and the Tekins with the wiz-bang profile was worlds apart. Now, the money I spent could have gone to buy a Tekin, but I already had 1 KO and wanted to be consistent, and not have to buy the hotwire and learn new software, and all that stuff. I am hoping that KO comes up with a software upgrade that gets it more even with the Tekin, because I know it is a nice speedo, I think they just got caught with their pants down. I really dont have a good idea on how to even the fields. One thing that is a positive is that other than the C rating game, at least the whole battery matching era is over, dont miss those days one bit. The no maintenance factor of brushless is really nice too. whatever they decide to do, I hope they keep it around for a couple of years at least.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
....I know Tamiya has connections with Novak, why not get Tekin on board too. They could make GT2 GTB style ESC's and GT1 any GT2 ESC or Tekin RS. I would consider GT2 Spec 17.5 and GT1 Spec 17.5 and ROAR 17.5. ...Plus Tekin/Novak being both USA companies will have easier support and perhaps give TCS racers significant discount. If something like this works well, it could help the local tracks to follow the same direction in class creation. /e pops some popcorn for Hebiki
Novak certainly supports the more unique classes these days with their involvement in USVTA, and Tekin has offered to code class specific software to help curb the ESC war in classes where it is detrimental to the quality of racing. With the multi-tiered classes of GT1, 2 and 3, this seems like a fantastic idea for years to come.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:38 AM
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Just curious....What is the tech process for verifying one has class specific code in their ESC? How time consuming is it? I would suspect you would need a hotwire for the Tekin to verify. Or is there a code blink on power up?

The local venues are already burdened with silvercan tech, so adding an ESC tech would undoubtedly slow things down even more. But if that is what it would take to bring "spec" back into spec classes, I suppose it is a burden they will have to bare.
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