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Old 01-01-2010, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I do not race mini, but here is my solution, spec a brushless system that is non programable, and a brushless motor that has truly fixed timing , mandate this combo for all mini competitors for a minimum of 3 years and be done with it. If possible the speedo/motor would be in the $100 range.
I know that the first issue that will be brought up is availability, I guess someone would have to work with a manufacturer to figure that one out.

Or split the class into 2 groups, stock and unlimited. stock would have a blind draw in tech at the races, mandatory bullet connectors for easy installation etc. .
Unlimited would be run what ya brung and hope ya brung enough!!!!
When Tamiya released their own Brushless motor/esc system last year, I thought the 2010 TCS rule will be ONLY Tamiya brushless speedo/motor. Your idea is only work in a perfect world...it would be perfect for any form of auto racing. However, it will never happen....

USVTA is currently doing something similar like what you said...and guess what most ppl's concern is....
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:03 PM
  #12302  
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Originally Posted by Solara
When Tamiya released their own Brushless motor/esc system last year, I thought the 2010 TCS rule will be ONLY Tamiya brushless speedo/motor. Your idea is only work in a perfect world...it would be perfect for any form of auto racing. However, it will never happen....

USVTA is currently doing something similar like what you said...and guess what most ppl's concern is....
It would happen if someone wanted it to happen, it doesnt take a perfect world, in fact if the turnout for mini dropped by 75% they would address the issue in a week. But people bitch about it on here and then show up in droves to race mini, so there is no problem right?
Like I said, I dont run mini , so I have no agenda, just the bickering back and forth about what is an acceptable RPM limit is painful. Doc Mertes is the premiere silvercan tuner in this series, so I tend to believe what he says.
If you went brushless and had a very narrow window of legal motors and electronics, you would have parity, and it would be very easy to see if someone was bending the rules just from on track performance.
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:28 PM
  #12303  
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I've only been competing in the TCS Series for a few years and have been experimenting with 540J motors for a little over 2 years or is it 3 years? I forget now. However, it seems as if the same stuff comes up every year. It's led me to a few conclusions which are:

1. Tamiya will do what they will do
2. It doesn't always make much sense
3. Making suggestions (whining about the rules) seems to have little or no effect
4. On occasion, rules will be changed to accomodate those in #3
5. The result of these changes can make the matter better, or worse depending on your view point. It does, almost always, make a situation more confusing if it was confusing to begin with or lead to mass confusion if it wasn't
6. Brushless advocates want the 540J to go the way of the dinosaur or be confined to the ac systems of full sized autos
7. Dinosaur lovers are cheap skates
8. Each time the rules are improved, we have fewer participants

Please note that these are a few observations of a relative newcomer to the TCS Series and may differ a lot from the veteran racers. I am always entertained by the Annual Rules Dance and have been known to participate on occasion, but no more. All any of us can ask for is a stable set of rules established with a reasonable lead time. A few days before the event, as happened last year is not reasonable.
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
I've only been competing in the TCS Series for a few years and have been experimenting with 540J motors for a little over 2 years or is it 3 years? I forget now. However, it seems as if the same stuff comes up every year. It's led me to a few conclusions which are:

1. Tamiya will do what they will do
2. It doesn't always make much sense
3. Making suggestions (whining about the rules) seems to have little or no effect
4. On occasion, rules will be changed to accomodate those in #3
5. The result of these changes can make the matter better, or worse depending on your view point. It does, almost always, make a situation more confusing if it was confusing to begin with or lead to mass confusion if it wasn't
6. Brushless advocates want the 540J to go the way of the dinosaur or be confined to the ac systems of full sized autos
7. Dinosaur lovers are cheap skates
8. Each time the rules are improved, we have fewer participants

Please note that these are a few observations of a relative newcomer to the TCS Series and may differ a lot from the veteran racers. I am always entertained by the Annual Rules Dance and have been known to participate on occasion, but no more. All any of us can ask for is a stable set of rules established with a reasonable lead time. A few days before the event, as happened last year is not reasonable.
I agree...... and disagree
most of what you stated is on the money, however, in the case of mini I think the turnouts are as big as they have ever been
I could be wrong and I only went to the Trackside race last year, but it seemed like it took forever to get through all the minis\
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
If you went brushless and had a very narrow window of legal motors and electronics, you would have parity, and it would be very easy to see if someone was bending the rules just from on track performance.
Very true. I would go a important step further on the brushless motor and make it welded shut, motor can never be opened to change rotors or install ceramic bearings, add or subtract shims etc etc. on the esc side absolutely no adjustments on the speedo (that already exists) so all adjustment will be on Tx side.
$100 price point already is out there & therefore possible.
if they make it the rule everyone will buy the spec system (whining or not) that's the way it's always been except this time racing will be much fairer and improved.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:15 PM
  #12306  
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The thing to do about the rules is predict what they will do for 2011, then we will not be surprised when they happened, because they were already talked about them in 2010.

I am sure with mini the M05 will be the only chassis for 2011....
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
8. Each time the rules are improved, we have fewer participants
+1


Please take note that Tamiya sells 80% of it's RC kits with a 540J silver can motor!!!!

The majority of the cars run in the TCS series will always include a 540J motor!!!

This issue of deleting older cars from the series, we just got a small taste of that this year with the TT-01 "not".
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray k
+1


Please take note that Tamiya sells 80% of it's RC kits with a 540J silver can motor!!!!

The majority of the cars run in the TCS series will always include a 540J motor!!!

This issue of deleting older cars from the series, we just got a small taste of that this year with the TT-01 "not".
Ray, no argument there, yes, most Tamiya kits include the 540J .
But there needs to be something put in place that takes motor tuning and/or money spending out of the equation.
Yes, asking people to go out and spend $100 on a new motor and speedo sounds like alot. But if that is the spec for 3-4 years, a racer would probably spend the equivalent in silvercan motors over the same period of time, so to me, its a wash. The upside being a level playing field for all comers.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:09 AM
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If you require a certain spec motor then you need to be very specific on motor requirements and esc's. Just look at the hassle that they have with motors and esc's in the VTA series. Handout motors would be the solution for some classes.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:26 AM
  #12310  
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Originally Posted by MD
If you require a certain spec motor then you need to be very specific on motor requirements and esc's. Just look at the hassle that they have with motors and esc's in the VTA series. Handout motors would be the solution for some classes.
What I am suggesting is one ESC and one motor. I would be willing to do it for F1 as well. I want to spend my time tuning the chassis and running laps, not matching packs and trying to get 200 more RPM out of the motor. Lipo and brushless have helped this tremendously, now in the classes we are battling ESC of the week. If you limit the choice to one,and one that has little adjustment capability, you create parity.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:45 AM
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I would agree that there should be one motor and one esc, unless you have a manufacturer that makes motors and esc's under different names. But, I think there needs to be a budget class like the TT01 spec class they've started in Maryland, where they limit the chassis, hop ups, tires, gear ratios etc.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MD
If you require a certain spec motor then you need to be very specific on motor requirements and esc's. Just look at the hassle that they have with motors and esc's in the VTA series. Handout motors would be the solution for some classes.
I like the concept of a grab bag. Although it might benefit motor tuners but if done right could severely reduce the tampering because you will be passing it on to the next victim which might help them or hurt them. I would only allow the motors to be removed in tech after the race/marshaling duties are done.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
I like the concept of a grab bag. Although it might benefit motor tuners but if done right could severely reduce the tampering because you will be passing it on to the next victim which might help them or hurt them. I would only allow the motors to be removed in tech after the race/marshaling duties are done.
The idea was just like the nats, install in tech, leave in tech, no tuning allowed and no one runs the same motor twice.
Might be a bit difficult to do at a regional, but that puts in the hands of the race director and his or her crew
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:13 AM
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Let me chime in as a total TCS novice - I've never participated, but just dusted off a TA05 I had sitting on the shelf and am thinking about prepping it for TCS this year.

I did my best to read through a lot of pertinent and valuable info on this thread (ok, I may have skipped a few pages!), and the two things that stand out to me most are how much silver cans seem like a black art, and how silvercan people mean SERIOUS business - somewhat intimidating for a novice! after reading all the info I could digest, it certainly appears that, unless you've attended Hogwarts for the last decade there's not a snowball's chance your "straight from the box" 540 will keep up with field. A grab bag system, or very tightly controlled spec rules would perhaps address some of that... Doesn't Tamiya ship most kits with a rudimentary ESC these days? Seems like the perfect opportunity to really lock in some parity for entry level classes like spec and GT3... Grab bag motor, and a box stock ESC. sure, gear fetishists would balk at the notion of running a TEU 101, but that's what intermediate and advanced classes are for, no?

That being said, I can't remember the last time I drove a silvercan car and I'm gravitating more to GT2 - at least there I can use the same gear that I'm familiar with, and that my local club races... However, it appears that I'd have to convert my 05 to IFS for it to be GT2 eligible?

Anyway, there's my total novice perspective on it... I've never raced an RC car in my life, despite having enjoyed tamiya cars for the last 25-30 years, but wanna get in!!
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:42 AM
  #12315  
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You said fetishists

You know, back in the early days of TCS we had 2 classes.
Silver can, and Mod.
Hand-Out Silver can and Brushless Mod today would simplify things , no?
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