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Old 12-13-2009, 10:15 PM
  #12196  
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Originally Posted by lbckevin
GT1 should be 13.5
GT2 is 17.5
Gt3 is silver can

Any roar legal lipo should be able to run...There is a list on Roar's website
Any roar legal motor should be able to run...

The body rules are fine...

The tire rule is crazy...most guys have multiple set of 1 runs to use...Why change it now..???

Why limit this ???? Most guys already own a roar legal lipo and brushless.


or go
GT1 17.5 ROAR (Adjustable)
GT2 17.5 Spec (Locked)
GT3 silvercan
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:52 AM
  #12197  
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And now for the off-road motor rules... 2008 was 10.5, 2009 was 13.5 and now 2010 is 17.5?!

Gary is correct in saying watered down. 17.5 in a 4WD off-roader is a complete joke.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:25 AM
  #12198  
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So I was thinking a little more about this, and maybe its alraeady obvious to most or maybe not. As much as we think the TCS series is al about us the racers, and for the most part it is. It is also a marketing tool for Tamiya to get new people into the hobby. Thats why they hold the events at established hobby shops instead of hotels. With that said, IMO they want it to be a showcase of current product, it doesnt do them a bit of good to have a field full of 6 year old chassis that arent available anymore running around out there. Same with bodies, they want to show the capability of their newest stuff. As far as the wheel rule, TCS and Tamiya in general have always been about scale realism, dish wheels are not scale, and I for one never cared for them to begin with, although they are pretty durable.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:06 AM
  #12199  
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Thank you BP, that was the point I stated previously. I was not trying to cast negative shadows on this race series. I am a supporter and comply to the rules with out cry baby'ing about them.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:38 AM
  #12200  
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Originally Posted by MD
If they're trying to generate revenue I don't think these rule changes will accomplish that goal. It's obvious from the comments on this thread that it has discouraged a lot of people. Why not increase the opportunity for participation and that will increase revenue. It's their series. It would be interesting to find out what the goals are behind these decisions.
Agreed but as Larry pointed out:

Originally Posted by f1larry
The funny thing about the rules and people saying Tamiya is trying to generate money is that the biggest issue in the rules are motors and speedos and those aren't even things Tamiya sells.
I also agree with Kevin on this:

Originally Posted by lbckevin
GT1 should be 13.5
GT2 is 17.5
Gt3 is silver can

Any roar legal lipo should be able to run...There is a list on Roar's website
Any roar legal motor should be able to run...

The body rules are fine...

Why limit this ???? Most guys already own a roar legal lipo and brushless.
Finally

Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
So I was thinking a little more about this, and maybe its alraeady obvious to most or maybe not. As much as we think the TCS series is al about us the racers, and for the most part it is. It is also a marketing tool for Tamiya to get new people into the hobby. Thats why they hold the events at established hobby shops instead of hotels. With that said, IMO they want it to be a showcase of current product, it doesnt do them a bit of good to have a field full of 6 year old chassis that arent available anymore running around out there. Same with bodies, they want to show the capability of their newest stuff. As far as the wheel rule, TCS and Tamiya in general have always been about scale realism, dish wheels are not scale, and I for one never cared for them to begin with, although they are pretty durable.
Absolutely and it's a great tool. I've heard people say that GT1 turnout is down. Ok, well perhaps one of the reasons is the cost of changing power plant rules every year for the last number of years.

2010- 17.5
2009- 13.5
2008- 10.5
2007- 19T OR 10.5
2006- 19T (3 Spec'ed motors from Reedy, Trinity or Orion)

Even with Brushed motors racers were being asked to pony up at least $50 for a motor. When we get consistent rules from one year to the next it makes it easier for people to compete. So let's say that someone didn't have a 19T in 2006 or a legal motor in any of the other years. By my rough estimate there's $370 worth of motors that someone would have had to purchase since 2006. That's a lot of money for anyone. I can understand the change last year to make GT2 an IFS class. I can somewhat understand changing the bodies in GT1. Tamiya sells those items. But as Larry said, without a dog in the fight, why the constant GT1 motor changes?
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:03 AM
  #12201  
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I used to be a diehard GT1 guy, but I was barely able to make the A let alone run up front, so I took a reality check and ran GT3 because I was never good at getting the 27 turn motors to make power. I had 3 good runs in GT3 at Trackside. When the rules changed in GT2 it was exactly what I was looking for so I jumped back up and made the A after a year of not racing.
The point to all this?
I didnt switch classes because of cost, the level of competition got to the point where I couldnt compete. I am a good driver, but the guys running up front in GT1 are racing week in and week out and have time to test, I do not have either luxury at this point in time.
So whats the point?
Dont chalk up anyones success to purely money spent, theres more to it than that. High end speed controls are an advantage, but all the power in the world will not overcome a poorly setup chassis or a driver that smacks the wall every other corner
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:11 PM
  #12202  
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Exclamation TCS race formats!

Agreed there wasn't a large turnout for GT-1 but 13.5 motors are in the realm of mod. You really have to be a skilled driver to even attempt driving at these speeds. For me it's just too darn fast. Now that 17.5 is added to GT-1 I just might run that class. Although these motors are getting very fast also with constantly changing electronics making them faster, the technology at some point might take me out of the 17.5 class also.
It seems to me that racing sanctions are trying to dumb down the classes,i.e. 4 cell and 5 cell 10th scale and 1 cell 12th scale. Maybe their trying to counter the technology moving so fast by the increase of speeds.
In amateur spec classes it really should be all about set-up and clean driving and leave the high speed racing to the sponsored and pro drivers. I'm sure there are a lot of potential racers wanting to participate in events but are intimidated by the speed that RC cars are becoming.
I don't want to see 1/10 scale electric go the way of the do-do bird, something needs to be done to continue to attract more people to participate in racing.
In closing I don't have any answers to lowering the cost of racing. Everything is going up in price due to the state of our economy and I think the RC industry will get worse before it gets any better.
I hope that Fred does everything in his power to make TCS more affordable because turnout is getting dangerously low.
Good luck to all concerned on making events happen and help the racer stay in the hobby and not get shut out by costs!
Thank you for your time!
Max
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:32 PM
  #12203  
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Misc ramblings and then I will go back to the side lines with my box of popcorn.

F1 class split - good idea. F103's still faster than F104's and at most tracks, foams are faster than rubber

GT-1 class - what happened to GT-1 being the fast class ? I ran GT-1 and GT-2 last year because A.) to get better as a driver, you drive faster cars, not slower ones. B.) Just got tired of all the silver can motor tuning and drama. Go back to 2009 rules, ANY ROAR leagel 13.5. And if it has to be 17.5, again, ANY ROAR legal 17.5. There will always be people who will look for the latest / fastest motor / rotor / esc set-up. Leave it open and everyone has the same opportunity to buy the same equipment. Plus, the latest esc's with advance motor timing can keep a fixed timing motor on par with an advanced timing motor. You can only advance the esc / motor timing so far until POOF !

Tamiya making changes to make money ? Yes and no. Yeah, they would like to have their series generate product sales but they don't sell esc's and motors. As for rims, I have 30 sets of orange 5-spoke. I don't like dish rims so "personally", I'm not bothered. They look like crap so I have been runing 5-spoke in GT-1, GT-2 and GT-3 for the last 4 years. Heck, even my F201 had "spoke rims". If you do have Tamiya dish rims stocked up, I am pretty sure that Much-More, Sorex, and all the other 24mm tires still fit on them.

Someone outspending to win. Yeah ? Try racing a $ 20K Mazda RX-3 against a $ 100K tube frame Alfa or $ 60-70K Toyota's in SCCA Club Racing for checkered flags and bowling trophies. Don't want to get outspent ? Simple, have an "experienced racer" spec class. One chassis kit allowed, no hop-ups, Tamiya 12T brushless esc / motor combo, spec battery (one type only like Nats), fixed gearing and spec tire. And then watch the 2-3 people at best at each race show up for the class. Wait, that won't happen, costs to much to get a new kit, motor, esc, battery. Okay, cancel that class.

Only changes I don't like are motors (allow any ROAR legal brushless motor), GT-1 motors (keep the 13.5) and bodies (as a bimmer fan, I really wanted the new M3 body to be legal in GT-1).

Will I stop racing TCS ? No, and I expect to see most if not all of the "regulars" att he first Regional I attend and will be happy to welcome some new faces based on some of the new drivers showing up on Saturdays at Tamiya who want to run the series.
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:50 PM
  #12204  
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It has been said by many that racing costs money, and I think everyone knows that. Even spec racing has a substantial staert up cost. I don't think anyone is disputing that. The issue is that this is a hobby and most people get into it for the fun of competing and lets face all of us would love to be racing real cars if we could afford to. Most of us have some kind of budget and cna't afford to keep up with the motor or speed control of the week. The rules have become so inconsistant now and equipment is changeing every other week as well as year to year. People budget a certain amount for rc cars per year after their initial investment. The way things are going it no longer is an investment as motors and speedo's are becomeing like disposable items. The average racer can not afford that. Ther needs to be some stabalization soon or TC will continue to die. I think new people understand about having to make an initial investment to start racing, but what scares them away is the fear that their equipment will be obsolete before they evan hit the track.

sorry for rambling
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:55 PM
  #12205  
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Default RE: GT1 & GT2 Body

Does anyone know if there is there a body that can be used in both GT1 and GT2 under the new rules? So if I wanted to race both classes I can just use the same body in both classes.....Thanks
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:00 PM
  #12206  
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Originally Posted by f1larry
It has been said by many that racing costs money, and I think everyone knows that. Even spec racing has a substantial staert up cost. I don't think anyone is disputing that. The issue is that this is a hobby and most people get into it for the fun of competing and lets face all of us would love to be racing real cars if we could afford to. Most of us have some kind of budget and cna't afford to keep up with the motor or speed control of the week. The rules have become so inconsistant now and equipment is changeing every other week as well as year to year. People budget a certain amount for rc cars per year after their initial investment. The way things are going it no longer is an investment as motors and speedo's are becomeing like disposable items. The average racer can not afford that. Ther needs to be some stabalization soon or TC will continue to die. I think new people understand about having to make an initial investment to start racing, but what scares them away is the fear that their equipment will be obsolete before they evan hit the track.

sorry for rambling
nowa days Spec Racing Cost more than non spec aka Mod Racing
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:41 PM
  #12207  
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Originally Posted by Kevin K
Does anyone know if there is there a body that can be used in both GT1 and GT2 under the new rules? So if I wanted to race both classes I can just use the same body in both classes.....Thanks
RX7 came on IFS kits so that makes it legal for GT2. it was tried on a 416 and it fit.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:27 PM
  #12208  
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
RX7 came on IFS kits so that makes it legal for GT2. it was tried on a 416 and it fit.
Ok do you have a part number for this body so I know Im getting the correct one.....Thanks
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:09 PM
  #12209  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Obviously Tamiya needs to generate revenue, because if they fail to generate revenue, they fail to exist. No more Tamiya=No more TCS (I know, no duh)
TCS in order to increase sales; I've certainly contributed.

In the last 3 years:
1) Bought a TA-05 to run in stock classes, following year only the IFS is legal with stock motors, gave it to a person to get started in the hobby.
2) Bought a TT-01 to run in GT3, loved it, gave it away to a kid to run Spec.
3) Bought a TamTech Porsche to run the new class, no class the following year, gave it to a family to get them started in the hobby.
4) Bought a F103GT to run in the finals, loved it, no class the following year. 1 run car collecting dust.
5) Bought a F103RM, regional got rained out, final only allowed 1 class (ran Mini).
6) Bought a TT-01 for GT3, rules changed to elimitate TT-01's from GT3 before it was run.
7) Bought a TT-01 for my 6 yr old nephew to run Spec, rules changed to speed up the class more than he can handle before it could be run.

I don't think I can afford any more of this free racing.

Last edited by RaceBucks; 12-15-2009 at 03:21 AM. Reason: oops, 3 years
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:59 PM
  #12210  
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NEW spec "GREEN" class......

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/13/c...ur-better-jud/

Can't wait till May to charge mine up north here.
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