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Old 11-14-2009, 02:14 PM
  #12031  
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Isn't it funny how BL is supposed to last for years but to be "competitive" you have to replace them every year or less. . .
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:26 AM
  #12032  
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
Isn't it funny how BL is supposed to last for years but to be "competitive" you have to replace them every year or less. . .
Just like the COT in NASCAR!
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:32 AM
  #12033  
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I don't have a brushless motor or esc cause having to solder three wires was too intimidating. Also the terminology was too confusing. However, I do remember a Silvercan controversy and thought that brushless was being advocated by some as being more inexpensive, more cheating proof and in general, the panacea for Mini and other Spec classes.

When you have to have a lap top computer at the track to program your esc, the level of technology required is more than I'm willing to endure. Also what happened to brushless being cheaper in the long run. You guys forgot to factor in the cost of a lap top. Having grown up on a farm, I can recognize horse manure and and cow manure. They look different and may smell different, but in the end, they are the same. Just a pile of c---.

Many of us prefer the Silvercans cause they are inexpensive, less than $20, reliable, "cheaters" are easy to spot and hand out motors are a possibility. It has always made me wonder as to why brushless advocates would want to convert some of the Spec classes to expensive and complicated motor systems. You never hear one of us wanting to make GT1 or GT2 a silvercan class cause that would be stupid. I'll leave the rest unsaid.
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:06 AM
  #12034  
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Thanks Bob and Bill for jump starting the old TCS thread,it needed a shot with the paddles.

Hey Bob , speaking of silver cans. We run a TT-01 and Mini Spec classes at are local indoor track and we using 15k Red Dots handouts. We are having a blast and nobody has to spend any money on motors. Racers are very happy,so happy we have to add another 10 motor to are 32 motors already in use.

Budget silver can racing is keeping are local track going in these not so great times.
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:26 AM
  #12035  
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:55 AM
  #12036  
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
Isn't it funny how BL is supposed to last for years but to be "competitive" you have to replace them every year or less. . .
I will start by saying that brushless is far from perfect, and that a perfect solution may never be found.
With that being said. Brushless has done a lot of good in the short time it has been on the market.
It has taken the voodoo tuning out of the equation
It has all but eliminated maintenance
It has brought a certain level or parity among competitors.
You could argue that the motor voodoo has been replaced by ESC voodoo, but i think its different. Once one understands what the change in values do in these speed controls, they can tailor them to their driving style. Making a brushed motor run optimally was both an art and a science.
Has brushless reduced the cost? In some ways yes, in others no
I for one hope that Tamiya stays with the motor rules that were in place last year, and maybe go to a fixed ratio of some kind
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:18 PM
  #12037  
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Originally Posted by Ray k
Thanks Bob and Bill for jump starting the old TCS thread,it needed a shot with the paddles.

Hey Bob , speaking of silver cans. We run a TT-01 and Mini Spec classes at are local indoor track and we using 15k Red Dots handouts. We are having a blast and nobody has to spend any money on motors. Racers are very happy,so happy we have to add another 10 motor to are 32 motors already in use.

Budget silver can racing is keeping are local track going in these not so great times.
No problem, Ray. I just get a little tired of the "brushless" enthusists in their zeal trying to convert us all to brushless. I would never presume to tell them to convert to Silvercans. Just acquired a tub chassis Ta05 IFS and will probably put a brushless system in that in time, but for now a good old Silvercan.

That 15k Red Dot of Doc's is a sweet heart of a motor. I got one about a year and a half ago and use it frequently. Brushes are getting a little thin now, but it's still performing well. I can see why your Spec program is going well since you're using a 15k Red Dot as your hand out.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:18 AM
  #12038  
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I will take the pushing of buttons on a laptop any day over the baloney that goes on with silver can motors. I've gotten them to run, but i don't like all the stuff that goes on with them.

They're still just crappy drill motors
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:51 PM
  #12039  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I will start by saying that brushless is far from perfect, and that a perfect solution may never be found.
With that being said. Brushless has done a lot of good in the short time it has been on the market.
It has taken the voodoo tuning out of the equation
It has all but eliminated maintenance
It has brought a certain level or parity among competitors.
You could argue that the motor voodoo has been replaced by ESC voodoo, but i think its different. Once one understands what the change in values do in these speed controls, they can tailor them to their driving style. Making a brushed motor run optimally was both an art and a science.
Has brushless reduced the cost? In some ways yes, in others no
I for one hope that Tamiya stays with the motor rules that were in place last year, and maybe go to a fixed ratio of some kind
I don't think fixed ratio's are the way to go. Not all spurs/pinions are clearly marked and it becomes a tech issue that takes more time.

I am balancing on the fence. I have been bringing a laptop to the track and working with many 540 Johnsons on the track.

With BL tech, it is a hard call. With GT2 going to a spec BL motor has been good. Although eliminating brushed stock motors and to a certain chassis does limit those who might run in it for 1 race. Brushed stockers are not an advantage and older chassis have not been proven that way either...

Silvercans the RPM limit needs to happen. I don't think I would go as low as Grandpa said. I have had motors that turned just over 13k after honest breakin techniques. Then again if you go that low or lower you encourage no breakin or voodoo. Which would possibly mean more smokin motors unless I can run a 80mm fan... I would pull the top 3 dyno their motors after the mains and randomly pick fast cars in qualifying. Plus don't forget the voltage check before and the winners after the main.... there are sneaky people out there with magnets in their pockets . . .
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:31 AM
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How bout no passing allowed on the straights?

Set up 2 transponder pickups on either end of the straight or get a cop and a radar gun and clock MPH (no,not you Marty, the other MPH).
Kinda like the pit speed limit, point A to point B too fast and yer out.
A no faster than "this" rule?

Or you can sell rev limiters and make em mandatory. I like this one best.

Just thinkin out loud.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:44 PM
  #12041  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
How bout no passing allowed on the straights?

Set up 2 transponder pickups on either end of the straight or get a cop and a radar gun and clock MPH (no,not you Marty, the other MPH).
Kinda like the pit speed limit, point A to point B too fast and yer out.
A no faster than "this" rule?

Or you can sell rev limiters and make em mandatory. I like this one best.

Just thinkin out loud.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:54 PM
  #12042  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
How bout no passing allowed on the straights?

Set up 2 transponder pickups on either end of the straight or get a cop and a radar gun and clock MPH (no,not you Marty, the other MPH).
Kinda like the pit speed limit, point A to point B too fast and yer out.
A no faster than "this" rule?

Or you can sell rev limiters and make em mandatory. I like this one best.

Just thinkin out loud.
I think these are great concepts, however, if you have a fixed ratio and one car is clearly turning faster lap times you could impound that car. The other way is to enforce a random teardown. If this were to happen, would it be worth the risk to not run the fixed ratio and run the risk of losing a qualifier or being thrown out of the event. They have done this in mini although I do realize it is easier to police given the gearbox construction on the minis
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:20 PM
  #12043  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
Or you can sell rev limiters and make em mandatory. I like this one best. Just thinkin out loud.
Actually, if Tamiya would mandate a home grown brushless fixed-timing ESC, we'd be racing with an RPM variance of just the motor manufacturer's tolerances. That would be a far cry from the all out RPM war zone that is today's ESC product marketplace. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the new ESCs, but I also don't think the TCS series is an appropriate venue for them. I'd be happy to run a Tamiya fixed-timing ESC at TCS events.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:13 PM
  #12044  
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The boys left for Japan yesterday. Anyone know where we can find timely updates of their endevor?
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 414MPH
The boys left for Japan yesterday. Anyone know where we can find timely updates of their endevor?
Marty,
I was chatting with Lee the other night and he said he was going to be posting the goings on over in Japan at this link
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf60581-0-75.html
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