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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 09-04-2009, 08:55 AM
  #11881  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Actually we saw more people running F1 when it went to rubber tires. A lot of people speculated that they could only win with Foams on F1 if they were using non-Tamiya foams or other cheating methods. Remember that, except for on carpet tracks, it used to be that you couldn't sauce your tires at all, even the foams. Guys were using Yokomo foams that had the same shiny sidewalls that Tamiya had, cutting off the sidewalls off of Tamiya tires and using other foam in the center section of the tire, soaking tires in a wide variety of spirits ahead of time and claiming that they didn't know it would soften them, etc. Rubber tires gave everyone a fair shake. With rubber tires you didn't have changing roll outs or tire chunking either and the assembly process was much easier. I remember the first or second year of rubber at the Nats that we still weren't allowed to use traction compound, hence the "Smudge Test". I want to say that was the year Beale won in fact.

What killed F1 was the F201. That car, while it looked awesome, was so over-engineered, heavy, difficult to setup, only used stick packs and overheated motors like crazy. Not to mention that they were 4WD which alienated purists like myself. I think that it would be a shame if the F103 was re-retired from the series since my 15th Anniversary car literally has just 1 race weekend on it and a clear body waiting to be painted up, I would understand if it went to an F104-only class for the 2010 season.
Well put Gary, cant disagree with anything you said, other than a couple of points on the 201. The 201 just required a different mindset to run. a ton of bearing and drivetrain maintenance, and a lot of discipline to keep it off the boards. By the time the 201 got discontinued, I finally had a competitive car, and then of course it became a shelf queen.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:18 AM
  #11882  
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Originally Posted by GREGK
I'll ignore the ignorant comment, though it was uncalled for, I did not intend to dis the 104, I agree with more development it will ultimately be faster than the 103. My point was keep the 103 for at least another year so car counts don't go down, the more cars there are in a class the more interest there is, I don't think you would argue with that.
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Im sorry for the ignorant remark, there has just been a lot of previous posting about how Tamiya does this and that and they screw this guy with poor parts support , and blah blah blah, and it just grinds me, and your post had that tone. It would be to Tamiyas benefit to allow the 103 another season, however Fred and crew are instructed by Japan on what classes are run and what chassis are legal for said classes. One thing to point out is that Fred was allowed to let us run lipos which are not run in Japan, so we do have something to be thankful for. Will the 104 be faster than the 103? Maybe, at some tracks, but the 103 due to its shorter wb is probably better suited for smaller more technical tracks than the 104
Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Actually we saw more people running F1 when it went to rubber tires. A lot of people speculated that they could only win with Foams on F1 if they were using non-Tamiya foams or other cheating methods. Remember that, except for on carpet tracks, it used to be that you couldn't sauce your tires at all, even the foams. Guys were using Yokomo foams that had the same shiny sidewalls that Tamiya had, cutting off the sidewalls off of Tamiya tires and using other foam in the center section of the tire, soaking tires in a wide variety of spirits ahead of time and claiming that they didn't know it would soften them, etc. Rubber tires gave everyone a fair shake. With rubber tires you didn't have changing roll outs or tire chunking either and the assembly process was much easier. I remember the first or second year of rubber at the Nats that we still weren't allowed to use traction compound, hence the "Smudge Test". I want to say that was the year Beale won in fact.

What killed F1 was the F201. That car, while it looked awesome, was so over-engineered, heavy, difficult to setup, only used stick packs and overheated motors like crazy. Not to mention that they were 4WD which alienated purists like myself. I think that it would be a shame if the F103 was re-retired from the series since my 15th Anniversary car literally has just 1 race weekend on it and a clear body waiting to be painted up, I would understand if it went to an F104-only class for the 2010 season.
RCgaryK BP Shadow was talking about my comments/facts on the lack of support for F1( F103 mostly ) cars. The Tamiya F201 was something to set up but when it was right it was a blast to drive. I got the carbon fibre version/hop-ups from 3racing and it go easy to set-up and run.

Now back to your regular scheduled conversation.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:42 AM
  #11883  
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer
RCgaryK BP Shadow was talking about my comments/facts on the lack of support for F1( F103 mostly ) cars. The Tamiya F201 was something to set up but when it was right it was a blast to drive. I got the carbon fibre version/hop-ups from 3racing and it go easy to set-up and run.

Now back to your regular scheduled conversation.
No, I was responding to GregK's post, never saw yours.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:49 AM
  #11884  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Actually we saw more people running F1 when it went to rubber tires. A lot of people speculated that they could only win with Foams on F1 if they were using non-Tamiya foams or other cheating methods. Remember that, except for on carpet tracks, it used to be that you couldn't sauce your tires at all, even the foams. Guys were using Yokomo foams that had the same shiny sidewalls that Tamiya had, cutting off the sidewalls off of Tamiya tires and using other foam in the center section of the tire, soaking tires in a wide variety of spirits ahead of time and claiming that they didn't know it would soften them, etc. Rubber tires gave everyone a fair shake. With rubber tires you didn't have changing roll outs or tire chunking either and the assembly process was much easier. I remember the first or second year of rubber at the Nats that we still weren't allowed to use traction compound, hence the "Smudge Test". I want to say that was the year Beale won in fact.

What killed F1 was the F201. That car, while it looked awesome, was so over-engineered, heavy, difficult to setup, only used stick packs and overheated motors like crazy. Not to mention that they were 4WD which alienated purists like myself. I think that it would be a shame if the F103 was re-retired from the series since my 15th Anniversary car literally has just 1 race weekend on it and a clear body waiting to be painted up, I would understand if it went to an F104-only class for the 2010 season.
In the midwest rubber may have increased participation but not in the northeast, the first year I went to Laurel was '96 and the were something like 38 F1s the last year of the F103 there were 10. Of course overall interest in the class had been declining in the late 90s which was no doubt a contributing factor as well.
While I had no trouble adapting to the rubber tires I think for a newbie the foams would be a better choice.
Anyway lets hope we get one more year on our 103s, I didn't bother buying the 15th anniversary edition, I just took my old one off the shelf.
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by GREGK
In the midwest rubber may have increased participation but not in the northeast, the first year I went to Laurel was '96 and the were something like 38 F1s the last year of the F103 there were 10. Of course overall interest in the class had been declining in the late 90s which was no doubt a contributing factor as well.
While I had no trouble adapting to the rubber tires I think for a newbie the foams would be a better choice.
Anyway lets hope we get one more year on our 103s, I didn't bother buying the 15th anniversary edition, I just took my old one off the shelf.
Even at Nationals F1 was generally the biggest class at just about every event. We also found the rubber tires made the F1's easier for beginners. The last year of F1 was tough because no-one knew what to do. The F201 was announced, there was speculation that the Nats would be an F201 class and not an F103 class which hurt and that all went down at the peak of the Sedan popularity, all contributing to the demise of the F103. Now people are turning against Sedans, looking for something simpler and easier to maintain and run. Also people are looking for more realistic looking cars too. Look at the SC Classes. While I am not thrilled with the F104 design the body and wings look awesome. What I'd like to see for next year is F1 would be the F104 only. Why promote the F103 if it's not commercially available? Yeah this means I'd have to buy a different car but it would be worth it. One of the major problems with the F1 class has been that it's been in such a state of flux for close to 10-years. It needs a stable set of rules that remains by-and-large unchanged for multiple seasons. What class has changed more than F1? GT2, while going to only the IFS cars this year, was different it was basically the same "stock" class as it has been. GT1 has just had motor limits put in place. GT3 is the same. Mini is the same. And what classes are the most popular? GT3, Mini and GT2. There's something to be said for stability...
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:21 AM
  #11886  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
Nah, never enuff.

I still need to get my car to be happy at this track, never got it that good even after hittin the track 2 days before, heck, 2 weeks before the TCS.

IT WILL NOT PUSH!

So many great F1 guys gave me tips, put their hands on it and watched it go.
It should be so freakin dialed!
Driver?
I won't even bore everyone with the stuff that got put to this car but I don't think they missed a trick. It just stayed loose.

The Ultimate F1 gig is comin and I want it better.

I'll be tryin old school kit tires up front, told they are the hardest Tamiya has to offer but not feelin it as far as the squeeze test goes, older HBR Mediums "feel" firmer.
I'll run em and see.

After that I'm goin aftermarket if necessary and gettin some that are the durometer of petrified wood!

See you guys there.
Craig - If you see this car on the track Saturday....... you may want to pull off the track to be safe.

Rod - If you don't mind, I would like to try your uber-sauce tires on Saturday. Right now I have the HBR's (soft rear, med front) that are dry and I will leave them that way for Saturday. On the premounts, are you guys cutting them down or running straight out of the bag ?
Attached Thumbnails Tamiya Championship Series-f103-bmw-002.jpg   Tamiya Championship Series-f103-bmw-001.jpg  
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:48 AM
  #11887  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Even at Nationals F1 was generally the biggest class at just about every event. We also found the rubber tires made the F1's easier for beginners. The last year of F1 was tough because no-one knew what to do. The F201 was announced, there was speculation that the Nats would be an F201 class and not an F103 class which hurt and that all went down at the peak of the Sedan popularity, all contributing to the demise of the F103. Now people are turning against Sedans, looking for something simpler and easier to maintain and run. Also people are looking for more realistic looking cars too. Look at the SC Classes. While I am not thrilled with the F104 design the body and wings look awesome. What I'd like to see for next year is F1 would be the F104 only. Why promote the F103 if it's not commercially available? Yeah this means I'd have to buy a different car but it would be worth it. One of the major problems with the F1 class has been that it's been in such a state of flux for close to 10-years. It needs a stable set of rules that remains by-and-large unchanged for multiple seasons. What class has changed more than F1? GT2, while going to only the IFS cars this year, was different it was basically the same "stock" class as it has been. GT1 has just had motor limits put in place. GT3 is the same. Mini is the same. And what classes are the most popular? GT3, Mini and GT2. There's something to be said for stability...
IMO, they should let the 103 run as long s people want to run them, if you look at the GT classes (with the exception of GT2) you can run just about any Tamiya chassis you want to as long as it fits the rules. F1 should be the same way, if people have cars and parts and want to run them they should be able to. Im not flip floppin, if they say 104 only ill live with that too. There were 3 primary reasons you didnt see the 104 show up at races this year,
1- the car didnt show up till around May or June
2- when it did arrive, there wernt a lot of them around to begin with
3- who in their right mind ( besides me) would trade a well sorted racecar for one that has close to no track time to go to a big event
I think as the 104 becomes main stream and people start to figure out how to make them work in a TCS legal configuration you will see the numbers start to rise
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Rod - If you don't mind, I would like to try your uber-sauce tires on Saturday. Right now I have the HBR's (soft rear, med front) that are dry and I will leave them that way for Saturday. On the premounts, are you guys cutting them down or running straight out of the bag ?
The premounts are pretrued hehe so yeah, straight from the bag...sauce and go.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
The premounts are pretrued hehe so yeah, straight from the bag...sauce and go.
Sounds like a night out on the town with you man... Just sauce and go, lol!
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:11 PM
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Can someone who lives near Ultimate Hobbies peek in there and tell me if they have any of the M04 Eunos or BMW bodies in? We were in the store when we were in town for the NATS and I could swear they had a couple in stock, but when I called today they didn't really seem to know what I was asking about and said it wasn't in stock.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
The premounts are pretrued hehe so yeah, straight from the bag...sauce and go.
Alright, sauce is simmerin for the next 2 hours then it gets wiped off, lotioned, then simmers some more.

Rest of car is ready to go, hope happy hour lasts all day tomorrow.

Kevin, I'll keep an inside line open for you, assuming I have full control of my car.

I'm thinkin F1 sessions, old school sprint racin, grid em up, go on the word then 10 laps or so.
We don't need no stinkin transponders.
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:27 PM
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2009 HIGH-QUALITY VIDEOS

If you'd like the race on DVD, please visit therczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17842. Please comment/rate if you have a YouTube account! I would have posted clickable links, but RCTech has this (annoying) rule of 10 posts before links can be posted.

Remember to click "HD" to watch the videos in 720p HD resolution! Enjoy.

youtube.com/watch?v=XI6T4qs6TcE - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=SL9CO4-SKj8 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=3fxDC0VywUI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=7okRgKE1Vyk - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Spec Novice [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=iV0qDtcCCB0 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-3 [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=v3YnRph9tpc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=vsQ_ajY08Fk - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=IkD6rKJwgLI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=UzIfiNwmqTo - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=XPyu1mfNI58 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Pro-Expert [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=QF_CGBmuxUc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=An1YDEhiDVc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=_DDVuUDDSyI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=tlXKWDslsZQ - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Grudge Match [Part 1/2]
youtube.com/watch?v=wNwVFls5ug0 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Grudge Match [Part 2/2]
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Slick
All the rest of my F1 brothers, I had the BEST time running with you. I really hope that as many of you as possible will come out on Saturdays (as long as the track's still there) and come practice, as I finish sorting out my F104. I look forward to seeing you at Charlie's race in Sept. Just think, all F1's, all the time. Better than chocolate ice cream off Kate Beckinsale's belly.
Marty and Paul, I'm really proud and thrilled for both of you. Glad you had a great weekend, and wish youse could come out and run more often. Marty, I'll send you a personal e-mail about our "negotiations".
Tom,

Can't thank you enough for just being Tom.

We both had a lot of fun thanks to everyone who attended and those that wished us well.

Maybe I'll try to make it the end of the month. Working on my F-107 design.....

BTW, you have PM Tom.
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GregT
2009 HIGH-QUALITY VIDEOS

If you'd like the race on DVD, please visit therczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17842. Please comment/rate if you have a YouTube account! I would have posted clickable links, but RCTech has this (annoying) rule of 10 posts before links can be posted.

Remember to click "HD" to watch the videos in 720p HD resolution! Enjoy.

youtube.com/watch?v=XI6T4qs6TcE - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=SL9CO4-SKj8 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=3fxDC0VywUI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A1 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=7okRgKE1Vyk - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Spec Novice [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=iV0qDtcCCB0 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-3 [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=v3YnRph9tpc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=vsQ_ajY08Fk - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=IkD6rKJwgLI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A2 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=UzIfiNwmqTo - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=XPyu1mfNI58 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Pro-Expert [A Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=QF_CGBmuxUc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-2 [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=An1YDEhiDVc - Tamiya TCS 2009 - GT-1 [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=_DDVuUDDSyI - Tamiya TCS 2009 - Mini [A3 Main]
youtube.com/watch?v=tlXKWDslsZQ - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Grudge Match [Part 1/2]
youtube.com/watch?v=wNwVFls5ug0 - Tamiya TCS 2009 - F1 Grudge Match [Part 2/2]
awesome videos. too bad no one got footage for the GT2 A3 start.
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Old 09-06-2009, 07:57 AM
  #11895  
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Wow! Great stuff. Thank you for shooting the videos and sharing them with us.
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