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Old 08-17-2009, 07:40 AM
  #11551  
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Originally Posted by rtypec
I would like to thank the guys involved with refinishing the track. Your hard work is much appreciated and the results are spectacular. Pictures do not do it justice and the view from the driver's stand (especially when your driving your car) is awesome. Last Saturday was the first time I ran sedan on the new surface and traction is incredible. Again, thanks to all the guys who worked their magic on the track.
I totally agree. The new track looks beautiful! a big thank you to all of those that made it happened and put their personal time in.

Steve Wang
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:00 AM
  #11552  
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Opps oh well good luck to all then......
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:53 AM
  #11553  
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Default Much ado about F1 traction

Originally Posted by teamstrc
Marty,

Honestly, I'm really the wrong guy to ask on the whole F1 thing. Yesterday was the first time I driven an F103, so I have no reference point to what the car would be like on the older surface. From what I gathered from the other "veteran" F103 guys, the traction is very good for touring cars and mini (rubber tire vehicles) but a bit unfriendly to the foams at the moment. They are currently not saucing the track yet (I'm not sure if it has to do with the new surface and it might be damaging if we start to sauce too quickly...just my guess). Right now the F103 guys are saying the cars felt very "edgy", "floaty" were some of the general comments.

There were a lot of experiment on turning down the steering and throttle curves (as much as 50% down) and also a lot of experimentation on different traction compound (I tried an aray of compounds from Jack the Gripper, to Paragon, to WD40, with sun tan lotion and without) and foam compounds, and how much of sauce to use. For example, on one of my runs, saucing 1/4 of the front made the car driveable, and on the next run using the same sauce, but covering 1/2 of the front made the car very edgy.

The F104 seems to have an easier time getting around the track on the new surface as the car seems to have a push out of the box, so they are very stable. However, I can't tell if they are currently faster than the F103 (there were only 2 of them out there this past Saturday, and we didn't get on the track at the same time).

Most of the guys are running the Type C body with their F103 which if I remember correctly have more steering, so that could be contributing to the more "edgy" feeling of the car. I ran the Type M body and it seems to be good (although unfortunately I don't have a Type C painted up in time to try back to back), and again, I'm not even sure what is a good feeling F103 since this is my first day with a F103, so please use the information above carefully with that reference in mind.

Personally, I really enjoyed the challenge of setting up and driving these direct drive cars (kinda wish I did it sooner all these years of TCS). Oh, the other thing about the track right now is that there is certainly a groove on the traction (not so visible to the eyes) but if you put your F1's foam tires out of the groove, it picks up all the dirty stuff on the outside and it takes a few laps in the groove just to pick up traction again (just like real F1 )
Marty, the track isn't nearly as bad for F1's as some people are alluding to, and I think Steve is right in his descriptions of what to do to get the car to hook up. Don't forget all your tricks to get mechanical grip into the car, and you'll do fine. Indeed the track preparers are not spraying any syrup on the track right now, and so foam-tired cars are scrabbling for grip a bit more than before. After several weeks of running, the cars have worn in a visible line around the track, and it's smoother than the rest of the surface. So foams slide a little.
Steve was also right about the "clag" that's off line, so be sure to drive out there after your runs to pick up "clag" so you make minimum weight after the race. So staying on line is pretty important. Just like always.
I ran both my F104 and F103 this weekend. The F104 had as always too much rear grip (partly due to the tire choices we have), and partly because of my setup choices. I am also having a weird steering problem with it and I think I'll have to go get another servo for it. As for my F103, it's fine, and motor temps were my biggest concern with the 32T motor. I got the temps down to 135-140 with a big rear tire and a 28 tooth pinion. I think everyone will need to be careful to break in the motors well and will have satisfactory performance thereafter.
I ran the Lotus /Type C body on my F103; For grins and giggles I might take a couple other bodies this coming weekend and try them, but I'm concerned how tense and stressed everyone will be (and how crowded the place will be) and would rather not break the car just before the race. If anyone's terribly concerned about traction and bodies I'd say try running a bigger rear wing, or else try a high-nose body like Steve said with their natural tendency to push. Meanwhile I will also work on my F104 to see if I can finally dial it in. I will also have a special F103GT car to practice rear-driving on crowded tracks with stressed people, since I don't much care what happens to it. And I'll have the For Sale all-graphite F103, for anyone still wanting to go big in F1.
Looking forward to racing with you, buddy. And remember, this year we're racing for boasting rights only!
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Slick
Indeed the track preparers are not spraying any syrup on the track right now
this sounds like "future tense". are you hinting they will spray this sat and for nats?
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:43 AM
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Default I see nothing

Originally Posted by Hebiki
this sounds like "future tense". are you hinting they will spray this sat and for nats?
Sorry, Chris. I was simply trying to confirm what Steve was saying about how the track preparers haven't been spraying any syrup. I think it is better for the surface right now. As far as I know there aren't any plans to spray this weekend or for the Nats. Then again, I've been wrong before, especially where Gary Demory is concerned...
Besides, you see-dan guys don't need any more grip, do you? I was pitted next to Wally on Sat. and loaned him some one-run B3's to practice with. He was really impressed with both the track grip and how well the tires wore.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:21 PM
  #11556  
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Hello everyone,

Right now I don't have any immediate plans to spray the track with heavy syrup or any for that matter. I would like to see how the new surface comes in over the next few weeks. The old track surface was fly paper if you think about it. The guys who volenteer each week, to maintain the track, do an excellent job of spraying. You could run a foam tire F1 car with no sauce. HOLY WOW!
I drove John C's Mini M05 and my own TA-05 and the cars are glued! That's a good thing and it's a ton of fun to drive on the new surface. However, the F-1 cars do need to change their set up for these new conditions.
Right now I'm hesitant to spray as I have been warned the sugar we use can erode the slurry. In the coming weeks we will continue to observe how th eF-1 cars progress to see if maybe a light mist of spray may help. We'll see.
For now we will go into the next two weeks with no spray and see how it goes.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:50 PM
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I'm one of the guys really struggling with the F1 being wicked loose.

As far as I know I have a setup that should be begging for steering.

Fiberglass chassis, short upperdeck, soft T plate, 2 o rings, soft spring, lite oil, black springs (with a .030" shim even), Med (new number) fronts, Soft and Super Soft rears (neither dialed me in), Sauced rears only with Coppertone (best so far but still not that good), Jack the Gripper, Jack topped with sunblock, Paragon and finally Paragon topped with sunblock.
All results similar, again sunblock alone being best.
I dialed my radio down to the extremes for steering and throttle.
Car spins just coasting into corners, no drag brake (dialed in slight roll for off throttle) and spins also on power.
Car will not push.

Needless to say I'd love a little sticky stuff to help out but would hate to see the track surface suffer because of it.

That's way over 2 cents but hey, I got that kind of cash.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:54 PM
  #11558  
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Originally Posted by Tom Slick
Sorry, Chris. I was simply trying to confirm what Steve was saying about how the track preparers haven't been spraying any syrup. I think it is better for the surface right now. As far as I know there aren't any plans to spray this weekend or for the Nats. Then again, I've been wrong before, especially where Gary Demory is concerned...
Besides, you see-dan guys don't need any more grip, do you? I was pitted next to Wally on Sat. and loaned him some one-run B3's to practice with. He was really impressed with both the track grip and how well the tires wore.
Originally Posted by FMW
Hello everyone,

Right now I don't have any immediate plans to spray the track with heavy syrup or any for that matter. I would like to see how the new surface comes in over the next few weeks. The old track surface was fly paper if you think about it. The guys who volenteer each week, to maintain the track, do an excellent job of spraying. You could run a foam tire F1 car with no sauce. HOLY WOW!
I drove John C's Mini M05 and my own TA-05 and the cars are glued! That's a good thing and it's a ton of fun to drive on the new surface. However, the F-1 cars do need to change their set up for these new conditions.
Right now I'm hesitant to spray as I have been warned the sugar we use can erode the slurry. In the coming weeks we will continue to observe how th eF-1 cars progress to see if maybe a light mist of spray may help. We'll see.
For now we will go into the next two weeks with no spray and see how it goes.
thanks for the clarification. i vote NO SPRAY... so the slurry lasts longer.

MAD PROPS to the painters and track guys who put in all the hard work. the track looks awesome. when you're up on the stand and the sun is shining its like seeing the track in 1080P High Definition.

John C's Mini.... WOW
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:56 PM
  #11559  
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Oh yeh, Tom,
What would be a legal bigger Tamiya wing to look for?
Does anyone going to the track have one to try/borrow/have?
I have the one piece wing from what I believe was a C body kit?
It looks the same as the wing that came with my M body/hi nose kit but is not adjustable and is a bit more flexible. (Does the problem lie therein?)

Man, I'm sounding desperate.

I may need to call a Whaambulance.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:06 PM
  #11560  
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Racers,

In the interest of promoting the comeback of F1, we are letting anyone who may have been away from the TCS Series or is new to the TCS series come join the fun for the TCS Finals. (F-1 Only!)

If you have a Tamiya F103 or the new F104 that is TCS legal, please feel free to sign up for the Nationals. The F1 class is shaping up to be the second biggest class of the 2009 finals and wed love to have you there. This should be a highly contested class as many former TCS National champions will be competing.

FM
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW
Racers,

In the interest of promoting the comeback of F1, we are letting anyone who may have been away from the TCS Series or is new to the TCS series come join the fun for the TCS Finals. (F-1 Only!)

If you have a Tamiya F103 or the new F104 that is TCS legal, please feel free to sign up for the Nationals. The F1 class is shaping up to be the second biggest class of the 2009 finals and wed love to have you there. This should be a highly contested class as many former TCS National champions will be competing.

FM
Will the legendary F1 pilot RedBullFiXX reemerge?
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by madjack
Will the legendary F1 pilot RedBullFiXX reemerge?
Wow, that would be the day....
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:49 PM
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Steve and Tom,
Thanks for the heads up on what the new surface is like and the F-1 pitfalls observed. I'll have to dig deep in the archieves to see what notes still exsist. Remember the days in F-1 with no track spray and no tire saucing, now that was a challenge. If I weren't so old I could probably remember what we did to get around the track.

Steve,
Thanks for the kind words...... I always had fun running with you in the past.

I'm looking forward to my 13th TCS North American Finals and seeing my old friends one more time.

Now off to paint the Williams FW 11B Honda F-1 body........
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:40 AM
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Does Tamiya USA do any kind of retail sales at their location?
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray k
Thanks for the kind words Bill, I did win four regionals this year . My personal best . But I agree with Granpa ,I'm not the national champ .

I didn't keep track of who won the west coast stops.The two stops I missed in the east ,Omaha and Memphis , Mr. Charlie Lydon won, of Core Creations. He will be are east side support at the nats. this year .

I wish him the best of luck ,as I will not be attending .
Why are you not going? Is it because you have to use a hand out perhaps?
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