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Old 03-31-2009, 03:16 PM
  #10666  
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Originally Posted by Three
Paying $45 for a "prepared" motor is less expensive than ANY brushless motor/esc out there. My "prepared motor has lasted me well over a year of racing and is still fast. Maybe brushless in F103, but not in Mini.
I agree that until the Mini kit comes with a brushless motor/esc combo it should remain silver can at Tamiya races.
Does the mini kit come with a prepared motor?
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:08 PM
  #10667  
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Originally Posted by Three
Paying $45 for a "prepared" motor is less expensive than ANY brushless motor/esc out there. My "prepared motor has lasted me well over a year of racing and is still fast. Maybe brushless in F103, but not in Mini.
I agree that until the Mini kit comes with a brushless motor/esc combo it should remain silver can at Tamiya races.
YES YES <<EXCILLENT>> +1 on both those !!!
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:10 PM
  #10668  
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Originally Posted by robk
Does the mini kit come with a prepared motor?
The kits come with a very unbroken-in silver can motor...
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:23 PM
  #10669  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Problem is that system there is Sensorless. Not nearly as smooth, but why it's less expensive as well.
+1

I bought an Orion Experience system to play around, and it was NOTCHY on the start-up. Ran ok once it got going, but not nearly as nice as a sensored system.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:35 PM
  #10670  
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Originally Posted by robk
We have already been through this issue with Trans Am racing. I can tell you everyone I talk to has come to see that brushless motors have made the competition fair and everybody gets to work on their cars more.

You buy 1 brushless motor, especially if you specify 1 or 2 brands.

All the current escs have some sort of timing control on them. Learn to use your esc's programming options, and you will be able to get what you want out of your motor. This does not require any secret knowledge, or voodoo. Just read the manual and try stuff.
I'll argue this. The budget-friendly systems do not feature adjustable timing, nor does the Novak GTB. Plus how many silver can motors do you have to go through before you offset the cost of a brushless motor and esc? Normally I am ALL for brushless, and I think in GT1 and GT2 it's fine. I'd even be open to GT3 going 21.5 and Mini going 17.5. I still think that F1 is better with a silver can than brushless. Unlike a 1/12-scale car you still need to at the very least run the mongo heat sink, if not still the fan due to the higher voltage (4-cell NiMH vs 2-cell LiPo). We are rather cramped under the car and having to squeeze a Sphere or GTB on that chassis is going to be an issue.
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:11 PM
  #10671  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Plus how many silver can motors do you have to go through before you offset the cost of a brushless motor and esc?
At $45 a pop, not many Sorry I could'nt resist Gary. My F103 is ordered, so brushed or brushless I'll be looking forward to running it.

Jimmy
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:26 PM
  #10672  
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Originally Posted by Racer X79
What a great weekend of racing. I think the 13,500 rpm limit on the silvercans made for some of the best racing in the F1/GT3/Mini/Spec I've seen in years. All cars were very close in top speed and chassis set up and driving was critical. It's nice to see silvercan motors straight out of the hobby shop competing with the best of the best.
Show me one motor in that entire place that was straight out of the hobby shop, besides maybe in the spec class. Dont fool yourself, there were still discrepancies in horsepower. Maybe not as big of a discrepancy, but one nonetheless. Not a criticism of Scotty or Tamiya, just telling it like it was. Scotty continues to make Trackside the benchmark for world class race programs.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:39 PM
  #10673  
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I ran my prepared motor all last season, and it worked quite well last Sunday at our club race. I say that is a bargin. Best $45 I ever spent in RC racing. MY ESC is over three years old. How much is your brushless system????????
Brushless is NOT the cure!!!
Name me a Tamiya kit that comes with a brushless motor/esc????

Last edited by Three; 04-01-2009 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:57 AM
  #10674  
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
I'll argue this. The budget-friendly systems do not feature adjustable timing, nor does the Novak GTB. Plus how many silver can motors do you have to go through before you offset the cost of a brushless motor and esc? Normally I am ALL for brushless, and I think in GT1 and GT2 it's fine. I'd even be open to GT3 going 21.5 and Mini going 17.5. I still think that F1 is better with a silver can than brushless. Unlike a 1/12-scale car you still need to at the very least run the mongo heat sink, if not still the fan due to the higher voltage (4-cell NiMH vs 2-cell LiPo). We are rather cramped under the car and having to squeeze a Sphere or GTB on that chassis is going to be an issue.
Yep, yep. I bought a Havoc 21.5 system for my VTA this season, and there is a seemingly HUGE difference in the top end performance with that ESC. It just doesn't come close to the performance that the GTB or LRP Stock Spec ESC provides. You can hear it at the end of the straight-away....It just doesn't spool up like the competition ESCs do (we all run Novak 21.5 motors). So now I feel compelled to buy an ESC that costs more than my entire sport BL system to be competitive. Brushless is a great convenience and to some degree levels the field, but is not an "economical" solution for racing.

I couldn't imagine wedging a BL system in an F103 either. That chassis was made for small electronics.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:02 AM
  #10675  
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I agree with you Minimadman. 100%.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:09 AM
  #10676  
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ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!! Why is everyone bitching about the $45 dollar silver can that you buy from Doc "Red Dot" Why don't you you just learn to tune them your self. I know how to do it and learned from some one which will remain nameless actually we learned together. Anyways if you don't want to pay $45 PM me and I will give you the low down or better yet Pay me $25 plus shipping and I will send you a motor equal to a red dot. There is really nothing to it you just have to do your research.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:03 AM
  #10677  
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Originally Posted by Three
I ran my prepared motor all last season, and it worked quite well last Sunday at our club race. I say that is a bargin. Best $45 I ever spent in RC racing. MY ESC is over three years old. How much is your brushless system????????
Brushless is NOT the cure!!!
Name me a Tamiya kit that comes with a brushless motor/esc????
Oh yes it is. Brushless it all that and a bag of chips. Tamiya just hasnt gotten around to putting more than a Mabuchi and Futaba speedo. Remember when you used to get a wiper arm and 2 ceramic resistors? The electronic speedo was a hop up option and now is included in quite a few kits. Prolly cause they didnt sell many. Brushless IS the answer my friend. Hands down.
Maybe not for Mini, But I'm 100% positive it would go over BIG in F1!
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:21 PM
  #10678  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Show me one motor in that entire place that was straight out of the hobby shop, besides maybe in the spec class. Dont fool yourself, there were still discrepancies in horsepower. Maybe not as big of a discrepancy, but one nonetheless. Not a criticism of Scotty or Tamiya, just telling it like it was. Scotty continues to make Trackside the benchmark for world class race programs.
The motor that I ran GT3 with was straight out of the hobby shop and it did just fine. With the rpm limit in place(13,500), "stock" silver cans can run right with the "prepared" silver cans in the open gearing classes. I do agree in the limited gearing classes like Mini and Spec every rpm counts, but at least with only a 1k to maybe a 2k rpm diffrence between a out of the box motor and a tuned motor you're not going to get smoked by anyone if your car is set up right. I guess my point is that anyone who can drive and set up a car will be competitive(by that I mean at least making the A main) with a normal silver can and with the rpm limit in place. Last weekend proved that.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:35 PM
  #10679  
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I could not take reading this stuff any longer.

The bottom line in racing and especially r/c racing. It is all about
1. Driving abilities
2. Car setup
3. Consistency
.
.
.
20. Motor (Torque)
21. Motor (Horse Power)


Motor
Motor, let me say it again MOTOR has very little to do with the top 3 above. Now, here is the sad part - if you excel in the first 3 points above, and you have a little more motor, then you will be unstoppable.

This throws out all the "let's go brushless" argument. Let's limit this, let limit that. The same guys that are winning now, will win with whatever motor you throw at them.

The majority of the race time is spent on the infield. Therefore, torque to jump from corner to corner is very important. You don't need RPM. At Trackside, for a 13,500 motor car to pass another car on the straight without difficulty, that car would need over 20,000 RPM. There is not enough time or space for a 13,500 to over power a (for example) a 11,000 motor.

It may appear that one motor is faster than the other. But the bottom line is that the faster car is coming out of the last corner at full throttle and not waiting like the slower cars does.

The bottom line is:
If a marshall touched your car within the last 3 months of weekly racing, then motor should not be your issue.


P.S. Enjoy some good racing below and let Tamiya USA determine what is best for their brand and racing image. Meanwhile, ... also look at the racer's consistency.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Last edited by TeamB&B; 04-01-2009 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Shortened a long post
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:45 PM
  #10680  
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Everybody is right (in our own minds) !!!!

Until the powers that be say brushless is OK then the point is moot.

Until the powers that be say 13.5 rpm limit for silver cans the point is moot.

That my friends is the only truth.

I guess we all enjoy our rc cars so much that we only want what we believe is the best. I thank ya'll for your opinions no matter if I agree or not.

And yes I'm too lazy to build my own motors when the "Red Dots" are so good.

Now about car set-up............

Last edited by Three; 04-01-2009 at 03:46 PM.
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