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Old 03-03-2009, 06:17 AM
  #10441  
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I still think it would be obvious ... to me anyways ..If someone had more punch AND more top end than I did. I would know. I don't need more than everyone else to win. Just what everyone else has.

Last edited by John St.Amant; 03-04-2009 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:28 AM
  #10442  
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GOLLY!!! THE FREDERICK, MARYLAND TCS RACE IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!!! IN FACT, IT'S IN

LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!!
LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!! LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!!

Thank you. Your TCS racing season may now begin.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:44 PM
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You crack me up Doug........
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hickmeister
I remember pulling you the 5-6 car lengths in that race!
Devon still is asking us how we got 17,300 rpm @ 5v on that motor @ Aliso TCS?
I was only DQ'd because the motor did not meet the 15,000 rpm 5v rule.
Not because it was an illegal motor????
That's the difference in knowing how to get the most of given set of rules??
Lets see now.

Devon does know how you got 17K out of that motor. Something about very strong magnets and a jig ?

If the motor was over the RPM limit, and it is not illegal, but was DQ'ed for being over the limit, then what is it ? A bananna ?

As for getting the most out of the rules, NASCAR chassis and engine builders know that the best. Then again, there was the 9/10 scale I believe Cyclone in the '70's and fuel lines run through the roll bars to run longer between pit stops than thier competitors.

As they say in most racing, it's only illegal if you get caught. GT-1 and GT-2 at the regionals keeps looking better and better.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:34 PM
  #10445  
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I have it on pretty good authority that back in the late 60's that Roger and his crew used to hollow pipe the birdcage and fill it with nitrous.... Ever wonder why Mark Donahue won all those races ? Nobody could tell that was the case and perhaps he should have been penalized . If tech isnt smart enough to find out wtf's up them I say shame on the racers that do cheat. The only one ou are fooling is yourself.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:23 PM
  #10446  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Lets see now.

Devon does know how you got 17K out of that motor. Something about very strong magnets and a jig ?

If the motor was over the RPM limit, and it is not illegal, but was DQ'ed for being over the limit, then what is it ? A bananna ?

As for getting the most out of the rules, NASCAR chassis and engine builders know that the best. Then again, there was the 9/10 scale I believe Cyclone in the '70's and fuel lines run through the roll bars to run longer between pit stops than thier competitors.

As they say in most racing, it's only illegal if you get caught. GT-1 and GT-2 at the regionals keeps looking better and better.
It could be the right part number just tuned over the limit. When you say the motor itself is illegal, I would take that to mean it is one of the alternative winds. Tuning doesnt make it illegal per say, if all the individual components are to spec, then in my mind it is not illegal. You walk a fine line when you start imposing RPM limits. There should be a bit of freedom to make good power, as long as the motor and its components meet the specs for that part #
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:54 PM
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did you guys know there are TWO types of mabuchi motors... one has more timing than the other one. the difference? 3deg of timing vs. 15deg.... one is 4mm longer on the rotor (that's easily covered by a pinion.....)

now tell me.... can someone in tech spot a 4mm difference in those two motors? esp. when the 4mm difference is covered up by a pinion?

flame on... flame on...
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
did you guys know there are TWO types of mabuchi motors... one has more timing than the other one. the difference? 3deg of timing vs. 15deg.... one is 4mm longer on the rotor (that's easily covered by a pinion.....)

now tell me.... can someone in tech spot a 4mm difference in those two motors? esp. when the 4mm difference is covered up by a pinion?

flame on... flame on...
Geared correctly the 15 deg motor chould be quicker AND faster than the correct one. Oh ... and good to know its 3 , I thought it was zero. TY
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:41 PM
  #10449  
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Default 4 Mini 4 SALE

I read the rules as box stock motor….. I believe Tamiya had that in mind setting up the rules as well. From Tamiya rules, The Mini's are for everyone wanting to race close and have fun doing it! This class is ideal for any racing hobbyist wanting to keep racing simple and fun. It is very competitive, but without the pressure! Fun is the game here with stock silver can motor power. NEW for 2009: The Tamiya 540-J motor (53689) is the spec silver can motor for the 2009 season.
23. Any modification not called out specifically in these rules is not legal. 24. If a driver finds a loophole within the rules, the exploitation will be deemed illegal at the discretion of the race director. 25. RPM motor limits on Johnson motors will be imposed at certain TCS venues.
THIS SOUND LIKE BOX STOCK MOTORS TO ME….. William Vacek Sr. RED LINE MOTORS ps. When they said over the loud speaker I was cheating!!! when I ripped you all a new ass with the silver mini, it had a red dot motor in it. So whats that say ?
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:42 AM
  #10450  
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We all are taking up a collection to buy all 4 of your mini's, here at the local track. Two of them you got cheap from some little kids at some race, one you got out of a trash can with a broken chassis, and the last you got free at a TCS race. All total about a 100 bucks should cover it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Five posts in and on a roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and have a nice day ,,Ray K
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by v6racer
Is it true , we can run the RS-540 sport tuned Black can motor 18.00 or do we need to buy a 45.00 540 J silver can motor ?
Here is your last post on the same topic.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:56 AM
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Here is the last answer,

No. No, you do not.

Your third option is to Man Up and run Senior Spec with the rest of us- that way you get a free motor to use and they're all the same. Driving skill rules the day!

Despite your continued inability to let this topic go even though it has been answered multiple times by many people, you do bring up an interesting point. As I recall, you participated in an experiment over a year ago, where the Mini class was allowed to run either a silver can or a black can motor. And in the end the silver cans ruled, plus they didn't burn up like the black cans did.

Remember the Bad Old Days? That's when a handful of guys would show up at the track with silver cans that were so fast they glowed in the dark. Motor performance was a true differentiator. Unless you knew someone who knew someone who had the hoodoo voodoo to make them faster, there was no way you could keep up. Red Dot motors changed all that. Now EVERYONE knows someone with the voodoo magic and has access to consistent, reliable silver can performance. And the guys who used to have the secret speed (including both you and me) don't have that performance edge any longer.

Here's the real deal: limiting silver can motor performance only has value when tied to an equivalent FDR rule- especially in the sedan classes. Go to something like a 5.5 FDR rule AND a 13 or 13.5K RPM limit, and I'll support it because 1) it makes the cars all pretty much the same speed, 2) like Senior Spec, it all comes down to driving and setup skill, and 3) the motors will last forever.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:58 AM
  #10453  
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and here is something you missed, Thanks again Doc


Originally Posted by Doc
Fred, Andrew, Gary --- Thanks for doing your best to promote a "fun" racing series for RC enthusiasts to enjoy. This is my 16th year racing the series and Ive enjoyed every minute of it --- win, lose, or draw. I applaud your herculean efforts to make the racing "fun", and I respect your decisions regarding rules, cancellations, and race direction.

It must be difficult at times for you guys to read this thread, because of the amt of work you put into the series, amongst all of your other Tamiya duties. It appears as of late, there's been alot more complaining than "fun" here, and that's got to create frustration for you.

Rest assured, the majority of racers in your series show up to have "fun", and we enjoy the racing, comraderie, and technology that the TCS series promotes, whether we win, lose, spend more money than anyone else, have the wrong tires, or get passed by 10 car lengths on the back straight. Racers, in general, want to blame someone or something else for their lack of performance. (Maybe, if we all were to spend more time working on our cars and less tme at the keyboard, there wouldn't be so much time to complain)

Unfortunately, as with most other internet applications, some will distort this forum to grind their own ax. Whether it's complaining, whining, gloating, or trying to sell something on the wrong thread, I hope that Corporate Tamiya can maintain a positive perspective about it and keep this series alive and "fun". ( I can only imagine how to explain this thread to the corporate folks in Japan)

Thanks for all that you guys do to keep the series alive.

Anyone care to join me in Frederick for a TCS race?



bruce
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:55 AM
  #10454  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Lets see now.

Devon does know how you got 17K out of that motor. Something about very strong magnets and a jig ?

If the motor was over the RPM limit, and it is not illegal, but was DQ'ed for being over the limit, then what is it ? A bananna ?


You're being called out on this one....


I don't, as a rule, stand up for my brother - but the motor you're talking about here was completely legal, except for the rpm limit. I have no argument against the fact that he should not have run that motor b/c of the imposed 5V-15K limit. That was a mistake on his part and he knows it. However, I do take issue with your supposition that it was altered in any way. It is an established fact that rpm variance occurs in any large sample of electric DC motors. Magnets can be soft or strong -- brush arms can advance or retard timing as brushes wear -- machine wound armatures can be wound loose or tight. Isn't this why all handout motors at the nationals were tested? -- to weed out those that are "too fast" or "too slow"?

Your method of argument is a classic example of tabloid-style accusation. You distract attention from yourself and feign concern over the subject with direct, personal accusations -- and then you attempt to confirm the hyperbole with nebulous, smoke-and-mirror "insider-elite" info. I have to say that your comparisons to NASCAR, etc are, well -- hilarious. Aren't they racing for millions in sponsorships and winnings?? Is this what you think we're doing in parking lots?? There is unfortunately, a need for this style of writing in magazines that one can purchase in the checkout aisle at any supermarket. There is absolutely no need for it here.

To prove your argument and to put the matter to rest, please have Deven post with you on this forum, all of his findings with respect to the illegality of the motor. Tell us what you know in detail regarding the illegal magnets, the wire and windings, the "jig", the timing. I know nothing of these, but I can tell you I am very interested, as are the rest of your readers. This "insider-elite" info should be made available to all. I want a motor just like that one, especially if, as you confidently assert, it can easily pass tech inspection. It is time now for me to put in my order for a Red-Dot.





bruce








ps- banana has one n.

Last edited by Doc; 03-05-2009 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:38 AM
  #10455  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
As they say in most racing, it's only illegal if you get caught. GT-1 and GT-2 at the regionals keeps looking better and better.
"better and better" sounds like someone likes to, or looks for, stretching of the rules.

Just my feel of what was said.
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