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Old 02-27-2009, 04:16 PM
  #10411  
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant
rpm limit...
doesnt make any sence to me .
isnt it all about the roll out?
more r's , less gear.
fact is, without knowing the total output of any motor (under load)
a motor might spin up nice but it could be a DOG!
forgive the broken thought there but its a silver can and if someone is jacking aroung the timing then i think it would be obvious ... dont you ?
A silver can turning 17K RPM will usually be faster than an out of the box motorturning 11K RPM. As for advancing timing, yes it is being done by people in a way that you can not tell at all by looking at the motor (no more having to crank the armature and scar everything up) so basically, yeah, there are a lot of games being played with those simple little silver cans. That is why Fred set an RPM limit for the (rained out) Aliso event. That's also why I was going to run GT-1 and GT-2 instead of GT-2 and GT-3 at the Aliso event.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:43 PM
  #10412  
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Ah, the old silver can debate again......Joy.

Personally, the only class I would like to see motors checked and spec'ed at a TCS event is SPEC. It's a set gear ratio class and motor can make a HUGE difference. And there's no bigger disappointment to a newcomer than driving his/her tail off only to get their doors blown off down the straights. Seen it happen too many times.

I won't touch the mini or GT3 debates. Those that choose to run can proceed at their own risk. We all know what we're getting into.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:48 PM
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In Spec they also need to check the drivers for experience.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:19 PM
  #10414  
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003
Ah, the old silver can debate again......Joy.

Personally, the only class I would like to see motors checked and spec'ed at a TCS event is SPEC. It's a set gear ratio class and motor can make a HUGE difference. And there's no bigger disappointment to a newcomer than driving his/her tail off only to get their doors blown off down the straights. Seen it happen too many times.

I won't touch the mini or GT3 debates. Those that choose to run can proceed at their own risk. We all know what we're getting into.
ill start a new debate just for kicks and giggles since TCS won't be back in Socal until June.

whats everyone's take on running brushless at Nationals? Say... Tamiya USA makes a deal with Novak and get 17.5s and 21.5s for two of the three trip winning classes?

[puts flame suit on]

so debate the question.....(GT2 and Mini classes) if the BL motor can be sold at say... $40? would you rather have a $40 bl motor.. or 2 black cans?
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:31 PM
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Personally, I love the 21.5. I have one I run in a TB02 for USVTA and it's a riot. Super-close racing at reasonable speeds and we leave the driver's stand laughing every time.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:49 PM
  #10416  
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Originally Posted by reenmachine
Personally, I love the 21.5. I have one I run in a TB02 for USVTA and it's a riot. Super-close racing at reasonable speeds and we leave the driver's stand laughing every time.
i think for gearing purposes... the 21.5 would go in the mini...and GT2 would get 17.5
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:29 AM
  #10417  
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Default This Make Sense....TAMIYA !!!

Here's the real deal: limiting silver can motor performance only has value when tied to an equivalent FDR rule- especially in the sedan classes. Go to something like a 5.5 FDR rule AND a 13 or 13.5K RPM limit, and I'll support it because 1) it makes the cars all pretty much the same speed, 2) like Senior Spec, it all comes down to driving and setup skill, and 3) the motors will last forever.
WORDS FROM A TRUE TCS FAN!!!
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:55 AM
  #10418  
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I think mini would have to be a 17.5. I've run the 17.5 in a mini and it's spot on with a 13-14k ish silver can. A 21.5 would be way to slooow. It would run like a 10-11k silver can.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:07 AM
  #10419  
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Originally Posted by T.MARSHALL
Here's the real deal: limiting silver can motor performance only has value when tied to an equivalent FDR rule- especially in the sedan classes. Go to something like a 5.5 FDR rule AND a 13 or 13.5K RPM limit, and I'll support it because 1) it makes the cars all pretty much the same speed, 2) like Senior Spec, it all comes down to driving and setup skill, and 3) the motors will last forever.
WORDS FROM A TRUE TCS FAN!!!
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Yup yup... that kinda what I was tryin' to say but perhapas a bit differently.
As far as what I said about the timing , I believe that If it had been messed with (even without looking at the motor itself) The motors performence would be obvious on the track.... even if the person couldn't drive it.
For the most part .. +1
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Core Creations
I think mini would have to be a 17.5. I've run the 17.5 in a mini and it's spot on with a 13-14k ish silver can. A 21.5 would be way to slooow. It would run like a 10-11k silver can.
oh cool. i just assumed 21.5 would be better since the gearing limitation of a mini.

wasn't there a race of some sort at Trackside where minis had BL in them?

good way to introduce more ppl into BL with 17.5 since that'll double (legal for GT2 and other ROAR/club type racing) for two types of cars.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:29 PM
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Yep...the 2008 Novak race at Trackside had spec 17.5 motors in the mini class and it was a big success. I'd be on board 100%.

BTW...anyone know what hotels are good near Tamiya USA for Nats???
Originally Posted by Hebiki
oh cool. i just assumed 21.5 would be better since the gearing limitation of a mini.

wasn't there a race of some sort at Trackside where minis had BL in them?

good way to introduce more ppl into BL with 17.5 since that'll double (legal for GT2 and other ROAR/club type racing) for two types of cars.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:33 PM
  #10422  
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For all you F1 heads out there,

-- Would it be okay to cut a hole above the helmet (realistic location and shape) and also vent slots near the motor to provide more cooling?

I know the general rule say no holes in the body. But I think these rules were geared to the sedan and mini bodies at the time. The Tamiya M body sits right on the motor leaving nowhere for air to escape. The existing rule would lead to tricks where the body is bent up, cut, or ingenious fans installed.

At Fastcats where F1 is very popular, there is little bickering with the rules and the goal is to have realistic interpretation along with functional venting. It makes a fun and exciting format where the F1 racers self police the authenticity of the RC F1 racing.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:44 AM
  #10423  
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Originally Posted by TeamB&B
For all you F1 heads out there,

-- Would it be okay to cut a hole above the helmet (realistic location and shape) and also vent slots near the motor to provide more cooling?

I know the general rule say no holes in the body. But I think these rules were geared to the sedan and mini bodies at the time. The Tamiya M body sits right on the motor leaving nowhere for air to escape. The existing rule would lead to tricks where the body is bent up, cut, or ingenious fans installed.

At Fastcats where F1 is very popular, there is little bickering with the rules and the goal is to have realistic interpretation along with functional venting. It makes a fun and exciting format where the F1 racers self police the authenticity of the RC F1 racing.
I don't think a hole is necessary. The motors isn't going to get hot enough to worry about nor will the air provided be sufficient to change it's temperature. But as for scale asthetics there is a hole above the drivers head for a ram air effect. But then there would have to be a rule about the size of said hole. So for logistics pourposes I think it would be best if no holes were allowed other than that for mounting the body. jm$0.02

Last edited by John St.Amant; 03-01-2009 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:53 PM
  #10424  
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In the way Tamiya does things in the past I would doubt that NO extra vent holes would be allowed. It is easier to have a local club that has certain specifications vs a series that travels around the country with different tech inspectors at each race. If you allow a little hole, next thing you will see is 1/2 the body hacked up with holes.
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:50 PM
  #10425  
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Hebiki - I am all for brushless vs black cans at Nats. I would rather have a brushless motor I can use later than two more black paper weights sitting on my workbench in September.

As for "seeing the difference" of those tweaked silver cans, I would say when someone can pull you 5-6 car lengths in GT-3 on the back straight at the '08 Nor Cal TCS (where there was no motor limit) vs. the same person qualifying behind you at the Aliso '08 Regional where there was a motor limit makes a pretty obvious statement better than any post on this thread can.
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