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Old 10-20-2008, 12:53 PM
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the only way F1 will be better is not a common engine rule, slick tires, gettin rid of max and bernie, more races, return to the us etc.

ITS STARTS WITH THE RETURN OF TAMIYA F1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is somethin i'd actually pray to joe pesci for!!!

raying--being sure to look behind me for a baseball bat coming at me:

R
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:05 PM
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How much of parts that required to change from F103GT to F103 F1 unit..? Thanks...(yes, I know the body parts and the foam tires thing...)
Also...I know it might not be up yet, but what is the motor/speedo rule for GT2 and GT1 now..? I think GT3 is still with silvercan.....
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:45 PM
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TCS cars welcome!

Why wait till 2009, race RCGT with your Tamiya TCS car now.

Mimi's Thanksgiving Charity Race
Saturday, November 8th, 2008
The Track, Gaithersburg, MD (near the home of the Glen Burnie, TCS)
5 canned food and your in.

...plus, great practice for Cleveland
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Solara
How much of parts that required to change from F103GT to F103 F1 unit..? Thanks...(yes, I know the body parts and the foam tires thing...)
Also...I know it might not be up yet, but what is the motor/speedo rule for GT2 and GT1 now..? I think GT3 is still with silvercan.....
Rumor has it....
GT-1: 13.5 Brushless (or 19 turn ?)
GT-2: Silver Can
F-1: Foam Tires, Silver Can
Mini: no details but I would expect same as last year or maybe a brushless addition.......
Spec TT-0? for novice drivers.....
and of course Rally at Trackside...

To convert an F-103GT to F-103, you will need a chassis plate, body kit with wings, front spindles w/ king pins, wheels, tires, rear left and right hub, diff hubs, body posts, removal of some GT spacers, and a few things I may be forgeting.

It really may be cheaper (cost effective) to buy a new kit with a body. I hear you can get them for around $120.

Of course, you will also need the 10 years experience of tuning this chassis that many of the F-1 Die-Hards acuired from 1993 through 2002 to be competitive out of the box, but it really IS a simple car and easy to learn...LOL (just kidding Howard)

Marty
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:55 PM
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no gt3?

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Old 10-22-2008, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ultegrasti
no gt3?

R
Actually it looks like GT-2 is getting dropped and GT-3 (same rules as this year) will "become" GT-2 and GT-1 will be same as this year except 13.5 replacing 10.5 motors. Then again, until the rules are actually posted on Tamiya's website, it's anybodies guess.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamB&B
TCS cars welcome!

Why wait till 2009, race RCGT with your Tamiya TCS car now.

Mimi's Thanksgiving Charity Race
Saturday, November 8th, 2008
The Track, Gaithersburg, MD (near the home of the Glen Burnie, TCS)
5 canned food and your in.

...plus, great practice for Cleveland
Eddie,
I will be coming to Mimi's soon to shakedown my F103 F1 car with foams to get ready for the 2009 season especially Trackside in March 2009. I was recently out in Ca at the Tamiya track testing. Fred is pondering several opitions in regards to rules and track sites for next years racing??
I hear that he might consider 415's and 416's in GT2 with Silver Can Motors? But it appears that GT3 might still be there ??? it will be interesting to see what acutually comes about? Maybe I might run the 11/8/08 race @ Mimi's I guess I could run a 13.5 in my TA05 IFS in the 13.5 class?
Steve.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 414MPH
Rumor has it....
GT-1: 13.5 Brushless (or 19 turn ?)
GT-2: Silver Can

Marty
That makes no sense.

19t has been dead on a local level. GT1 usually has been a low attendance at the Tamiya races. GT2/27t has been one of the biggest TCS classes and popular at a local level. The change for 2009 should be stock is 27t/17.5, not 13.5 as per ROAR specs. Although wouldn't GT1 be fun as open mod, while keeping GT2 and GT3. . .

Your birdie has been sipping too much Paragon.
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hickmeister
Eddie,
I will be coming to Mimi's soon to shakedown my F103 F1 car with foams to get ready for the 2009 season especially Trackside in March 2009. I was recently out in Ca at the Tamiya track testing. Fred is pondering several opitions in regards to rules and track sites for next years racing??
I hear that he might consider 415's and 416's in GT2 with Silver Can Motors? But it appears that GT3 might still be there ??? it will be interesting to see what acutually comes about? Maybe I might run the 11/8/08 race @ Mimi's I guess I could run a 13.5 in my TA05 IFS in the 13.5 class?
Steve.
Yeah,
Come on down on the 8th. It should be a good time where TCS and HPI Challenge could be on the track at the same time.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:35 AM
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Default Speed vs Cost.

Sorry for the long message. Just wanted to make one last plea for some decent TCS rules.

Tamiya TCS (Summary)
I think to make TCS racing a continued success, the GTx rules should have a class to attract and retain one of the 3 racer types below. Please note, a racer may be part of more than one type. It is an unstoppable combination if a racer is all 3 types. J

GT3 – Tub chassis/Silver Can/ 10 minute races/1-max 30x30 fan allowed – for the “Engineer”. The only rule is “don’t open the motor”. Bring out the best Engineers and let them have at it. They will self police themselves. Cheating does not exist because it is “encouraged”. Only one motor is allowed for a 1 day race. 2 for a 2 day race. The top 3 winners of the A main loses their motors to a random drawing among the B main drivers. Build a motor that is fast and can last 10 minutes races all day long is probably close to stock in the end.

GT2 – Any chasiss/17.5 BL – for the “Tycoon”. Tub chassis are min 1550g and Fiber chassis are 1600g, or Tubs run Tamiya rim/tires and fiber run 26mm rim/tires. A racer could spend over $600 for an all blinged out-hopped up TA-05 or buy a $400 TRF416 WE. This is the middle ground class. The Engineer (with a stock blue-printed TA-05) and the Driver (with better skills and setup) can balance out this class and be very successful.

GT1 – Any chassis/10.5BL/1500g – for the “Driver”. A little faster than a tuned 13.5 BL, but enough difference to differentiate the speeds compared to the 17.5. Near the same lap times as open Mod on most indoor tracks, but controllable to an experienced TCS racer. Controllable and fast enough on an open track such as Aliso Viejo. Cheating should never be discussed in this class and never was in the past. More motor so there will be a need to drive the car. Want to be faster? Then don’t hit anything during the 5 minutes. Car setup and driving skill will bring the best driver out. Engineering and money won’t help you much here. Motor and car too fast for you, tuff, take your 415/416 and go play with the TA-05’s in GT2. Plus, a B main winner in GT1 should be celebrated as much as an A main winner in GT2. If the faster motor is 13.5 in GT1, then cheating will come quickly. I have seen 13.5 ROAR legal motors that test as fast as a 10.5 on an induction meter. Tuners are starting to rewind 13.5 to make them faster. TCS engineers are the most innovative guys in R/C. Take the motor (the Engineer) out of the equation for GT1. Keep it a Driver’s class.


Back up information (not necessary to read)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently, I had the privilege to tech inspect a large Trans Am race under the USVTA Trans Am rules. Basically, USVTA started as a low cost class for racers to have realistic looking cars that weren’t too fast and be “uncontrollable”. And also to attract older racers that might have older equipment, motor and batteries, that can be still competitive. Within 9 months I witnessed how a racing program/rules evolve to their natural destiny – high cost and fast. We started off seeing racers running older TL01, TC3 and FK05, TRF414. Now racers are buying brand new TRF416, EVO-5, Cyclones etc. Out went the older 4 cell batteries and brushed motor, in came $250 ESC and $80 21.5BL and $200 worth of ceramic bearings.

In Trans Am, the same racers that argued to keep the cars slower and less in cost, really mean they wanted this for everyone else except themselves. It is the competitive human nature.

The average Trans Am car now cost more to be competitive than the average TC and is just as fast as a 17.5/27T sedan. Go figure.

There are three type of R/C racer out there:
1. The “Engineer”. Racer that want to win by out-thinking and out-designing the opponent. The guy who seeks loopholes in the rules and convinces themselves that it is not “cheating” – just being smarter. The one who spends 100 hrs designing and machining a custom part to convince himself that this is the key to speed.

2.The “Tycoon”. Racer that works hard at their day job and will buy the latest gadget and speed toys. The one who pays $150 for next day air a $30 part from a Hong Kong dealer. Outspend the opponent with technology and speed stuff. The latest chargers, LiPo, motors, wheels, tires, inserts, bodies, etc. Buy the latest Tamiya and get every hop-up imaginable. If is not available yet, pay to make it available. The one that wants to buy speed through motor and batteries. The one who pays little attention to driving techniques and car setup.

3.The “Driver”. Racer who can drive anything fast. Give him a TT01 and a controller, and he will put it in the A main every time. He can do car setup by feel, takes the perfect line, average lap time within .2 sec of his fastest. The guy who we say is “connected” to the R/C car. The one that seems to have “luck” always on his side.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:42 AM
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Wasn't the 10.5 eliminated and replaced with 13.5 for GT1? GT2 a 17.5, and GT3 for mabuchi? thats the third conflicting thing I've read on this subject.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:57 AM
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Team B&B - I would add a fourth category. The "Sportsman" who loves r/c racing, but doesn't have a lot time or money to devote to the hobby. This driver is usually skilled and has good equipment, but not necessarily the newest and the latest. I think there are lot of these drivers who would like to race more often.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:33 AM
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Ed, I agree with what you're saying about Trans Am. I liked the original idea of cheap/recycled/older technology stuff bring used to make the racing close and the cost low, while still appealing to the body style guys. It was different and very attractive, but in this part of the country it's basically become TC with Camaro/Cuda/Mustang bodies.

That's why we started Senior Spec:
* It's inexpensive, low maintenance competition that is very, very close
* Fast lap times are typically within a tenth of each other across the entire field
* One car, one radio, one battery, one charger, one set of tires- should all last for an entire season...or more
* Hop-ups are very, very limited, so you can't spend your way into the top- you've got to drive well and do it consistently
* We'll have to keep a close eye on the battery thing, but we won't be shy about telling someone to leave their super-zoot amazo high voltage cells at home
* Lipo works great and with the gearing in these cars the amp draw is so low that a cheapo ESC performs just fine
* Any car body is welcome, so there are lots of different cars in the field
* WE SUPPLY THE MOTORS in a blind draw format and certify them each week to ensure that the performance- faster than an out of the box silver can but not as zippy as a full bore Red Dot- is within a few percentage points of each other.

The cars aren't fast- compared to a good BL 17.5, they're off by about two seconds a lap- but speed is relative and if the racing is close, so is the competition. We've been AMAZED at the level of interest in this class at The Coliseum, much of it from guys who are just plain tired of the way other classes are organized and who are interested in having fun without emptying their wallet. Wish us luck!
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamB&B
Sorry for the long message. Just wanted to make one last plea for some decent TCS rules.

Tamiya TCS (Summary)
I think to make TCS racing a continued success, the GTx rules should have a class to attract and retain one of the 3 racer types below. Please note, a racer may be part of more than one type. It is an unstoppable combination if a racer is all 3 types. J

GT3 – Tub chassis/Silver Can/ 10 minute races/1-max 30x30 fan allowed – for the “Engineer”. The only rule is “don’t open the motor”. Bring out the best Engineers and let them have at it. They will self police themselves. Cheating does not exist because it is “encouraged”. Only one motor is allowed for a 1 day race. 2 for a 2 day race. The top 3 winners of the A main loses their motors to a random drawing among the B main drivers. Build a motor that is fast and can last 10 minutes races all day long is probably close to stock in the end.

GT2 – Any chasiss/17.5 BL – for the “Tycoon”. Tub chassis are min 1550g and Fiber chassis are 1600g, or Tubs run Tamiya rim/tires and fiber run 26mm rim/tires. A racer could spend over $600 for an all blinged out-hopped up TA-05 or buy a $400 TRF416 WE. This is the middle ground class. The Engineer (with a stock blue-printed TA-05) and the Driver (with better skills and setup) can balance out this class and be very successful.

GT1 – Any chassis/10.5BL/1500g – for the “Driver”. A little faster than a tuned 13.5 BL, but enough difference to differentiate the speeds compared to the 17.5. Near the same lap times as open Mod on most indoor tracks, but controllable to an experienced TCS racer. Controllable and fast enough on an open track such as Aliso Viejo. Cheating should never be discussed in this class and never was in the past. More motor so there will be a need to drive the car. Want to be faster? Then don’t hit anything during the 5 minutes. Car setup and driving skill will bring the best driver out. Engineering and money won’t help you much here. Motor and car too fast for you, tuff, take your 415/416 and go play with the TA-05’s in GT2. Plus, a B main winner in GT1 should be celebrated as much as an A main winner in GT2. If the faster motor is 13.5 in GT1, then cheating will come quickly. I have seen 13.5 ROAR legal motors that test as fast as a 10.5 on an induction meter. Tuners are starting to rewind 13.5 to make them faster. TCS engineers are the most innovative guys in R/C. Take the motor (the Engineer) out of the equation for GT1. Keep it a Driver’s class.


Back up information (not necessary to read)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently, I had the privilege to tech inspect a large Trans Am race under the USVTA Trans Am rules. Basically, USVTA started as a low cost class for racers to have realistic looking cars that weren’t too fast and be “uncontrollable”. And also to attract older racers that might have older equipment, motor and batteries, that can be still competitive. Within 9 months I witnessed how a racing program/rules evolve to their natural destiny – high cost and fast. We started off seeing racers running older TL01, TC3 and FK05, TRF414. Now racers are buying brand new TRF416, EVO-5, Cyclones etc. Out went the older 4 cell batteries and brushed motor, in came $250 ESC and $80 21.5BL and $200 worth of ceramic bearings.

In Trans Am, the same racers that argued to keep the cars slower and less in cost, really mean they wanted this for everyone else except themselves. It is the competitive human nature.

The average Trans Am car now cost more to be competitive than the average TC and is just as fast as a 17.5/27T sedan. Go figure.

There are three type of R/C racer out there:
1. The “Engineer”. Racer that want to win by out-thinking and out-designing the opponent. The guy who seeks loopholes in the rules and convinces themselves that it is not “cheating” – just being smarter. The one who spends 100 hrs designing and machining a custom part to convince himself that this is the key to speed.

2.The “Tycoon”. Racer that works hard at their day job and will buy the latest gadget and speed toys. The one who pays $150 for next day air a $30 part from a Hong Kong dealer. Outspend the opponent with technology and speed stuff. The latest chargers, LiPo, motors, wheels, tires, inserts, bodies, etc. Buy the latest Tamiya and get every hop-up imaginable. If is not available yet, pay to make it available. The one that wants to buy speed through motor and batteries. The one who pays little attention to driving techniques and car setup.

3.The “Driver”. Racer who can drive anything fast. Give him a TT01 and a controller, and he will put it in the A main every time. He can do car setup by feel, takes the perfect line, average lap time within .2 sec of his fastest. The guy who we say is “connected” to the R/C car. The one that seems to have “luck” always on his side.
let me stir the pot a bit more.. where does lipo/nimh play into your equation above?

Originally Posted by John St.Amant
Wasn't the 10.5 eliminated and replaced with 13.5 for GT1? GT2 a 17.5, and GT3 for mabuchi? thats the third conflicting thing I've read on this subject.
yes for the 1920371209371th time. per roar rules that were mentioned in the electric forum. by 2009... 10.5 will be slowly phased out. 13.5 becomes the new 19T...and 17.5 becomes the new 27T.

so im "assuming" TCS will follow these rules and have GT1 as 13.5 since it used to be open mod, then 19T... since 19T in 2009 is supposed to be 13.5 per ROAR's rules. etc... etc...

must be that time of year again (waiting for the rules)....
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:00 PM
  #9360  
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rccardr - Your class description sounds great and I think it would be very popular. I think the philosophy of your class fits very well with a lot of people. When you look at the success of the Tamiya Mini and the Traxxas Slash which are fun, durable and a reasonable product for the money. The stock Slash class is becoming very popular all over the country and the same thing could happen with the class you describe.
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