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Old 09-05-2008, 10:03 AM
  #9166  
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Originally Posted by Core Creations
Well..I have the Novak 10.5-13.5-17.5 and not one of them can.

And if others have to go out and buy a motor because of that, then those people are forced to go out and buy stuff they wouldn't have normally bought.

All of the motors you listed dude have adjustable timing. You loosen the 3 end bell screws and twist the can, wa la....adjustable timing.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:37 AM
  #9167  
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Ah yes, the "off season" and the inevitable posts of why Tamiya USA should add 48 more classes so that everyone from the guy who wants to run a box stock kit and one motor, one set of tires and one battery and never practice all year can still win an A main up to the guys who race 2-3 times a month and spend the bucks on parts, hop-ups, fresh equipment and testing different stuff. The TCS series is what it is. I will say what I always say, if you don't want to spend the money or time, be happy with you D main victory. Afterall, this is racing and this is a National series, not your local parking lot race. For those who think we need more classes, be happy with what we have. I travel on business to China annually and pass through Hong Kong and have looked into trying to run one of there races. They run three classes ! Yup, Hong Kong Asia Cup has three whole classes. This is from memory so I might be off just slightly.

GP3700 - tub chassis only (no 415 / 416 / EVO's). 3700 stick pack and a 23T motor.

GP2400 - TT-01 / TL-01 with 2400 stick pack and silver can.

Mini - 2400 stick pack and silve can.

That's it folks. Three classes to choose from. Pick your class and get ready to race. So, before you start banging away on your key boards to describe the perfect class Tamiya needs to create just so you can be competitive in the A main with your car / budget / racing schedule, stop to think how many options we already have.

As for motors and batteries, keep the option of brushless or brushed and LIPO or NIMH with a weight limit the way it is now. For those who think brushless is the great equalizier, it has it's issues just like brushed. There are different things you can do to the motor or the ESC and in the end, people who are willing to spend more money and have connections will have faster motors. The biggest area where motors are a factor is Mini and GT-3 and it has been shown that a simple RPM max limit keeps the creative engineering out of the mix and makes for very competitive racing in those classes. The Tamiya regional that had a max RPM limit with Silver cans and the Nats proved that.

Enjoy and fire away now.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:37 AM
  #9168  
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Originally Posted by Mr. devenwhite
you didn't metion the axle size. you just proved that someone that works in the industry wouldn't even be qualified catch people cheating. That usually makes a bigger difference in RPM than the rotor size. I'm not saying that different motors are cheater motors but when you start making a motor with components from 5 different motors from different manufactures that's when it get out of hand. and if you run a differnent wind than everyone else and make it look like the spec motor, everyones going to start doing the same thing and thats when things really get out of hand. And as you said, people in mini are the biggest cheaters of them all. except me. Also, i'm not convinced that brushless will save people money in the long run. Those things seem to have a terrible failure rate. I remember Timmy blew up a motor in every round at our regional race. Not 1 silver can motor blew up this year at the nats. I know that there were at least a couple brushless motors that blew up, and that was the class with the least entries. Sure you can get a brushless combo for around $200 but the mini kits come with an ESC and a motor. and with silver can motors a better ESC doesn't really make much of a difference in power. Brushless is a little different. If you want to go fast, you need to buy the best ESC and they don't come with a motor. and everyone will be buying 17.5's from all different manufactures just to find the best one. Mini doesn't need to be as expensive as touring car. And you guys wonder why touring car died.

yes i am proposing the use of handout impound motors at the regional level. That is the only way to completly eliminate funny business. brushless motors would not remove questionable motor techniques from the series. Trust me people in mini will find new techniques.
I understand that you are personally against having to buy a Brushless motor, but please bring some logic to the argument instead of baseless theories. For example:
What does axle size have to do with anything???

ROAR has had a "No hybrid motor" rule for years. So has TCS. You can't run a Reedy armature in an Epic can. Again, if this was going to be such an issue, wouldn't it have reared its head in GT1 and GT2 this past season?

No-one has advocated running mixed winds in a single class

I have never seen a brushless motor blow up. I have seen one rotor that had a burned mark on it. This occurred when someone geared the living PISS out of it. If you think you're going to overtax a brushless in a Mini Cooper...

If you think that, in the top 10% of a class the ESC doesn't make a difference in Brushed motors, you're absolutely wrong. Also, while some mini kits will include a basic ESC, not all do. It also doesn't say anything about those who may buy a kit used from someone or a GT3 car either.

You can buy a Novak or Losi ESC with a 17.5 motor and I believe there is a version of the LRP coming soon with a motor. And I don't believe that people will be buying motors from all sorts of manufacturers. I believe the majority of people will run either Novak motors or the motor that comes with their ESC.

You say mini doesn't need to be as expensive as touring cars. I agree. I am trying to save people money. And for those who claim that this is so expensive/you can't afford to change, etc.... How many of you run 1-run tires? How many of you buy multiple motors just to try to get 1-2 good ones? Sorry, your arguments are not based in logic or fact and frankly and don't hold water. And again, this affects MORE THAN MINI!!!!!
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:56 AM
  #9169  
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I see your point, Kevin. In the end, Tamiya will run whatever they run. All this conversation and debate may be moot, but it's still fun to discuss and hear different opinions.
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:16 AM
  #9170  
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I guess you learn something every day...I guess I never felt the need to f*** with what is suposed to be a spec motor...oh well.
Originally Posted by lbckevin
All of the motors you listed dude have adjustable timing. You loosen the 3 end bell screws and twist the can, wa la....adjustable timing.
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:17 PM
  #9171  
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Kevin - I don' t totally disagree with your opinions on adding classes. But, I think you would increase the participation and interest in Tamiya products if there was a low budget class. In the 80's every hobby store in my area carried Tamiya parts and now it's rare to find more than few parts at a local store. Change can be good. Your comments on the Asian race are well taken, but on the regional level an additional class could be a positive. In Tamiya's own words,"itís a low cost/high excitement series"
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:03 PM
  #9172  
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lots of whine in here...and not enough cheese.

people whining about budget. SHUT UP and race. if your equipment sucks because you have no budget.. oh well. dominate the D-main

people whining about brushless.. wanna know why you BLEW UP YOUR MOTOR. because you GEARED IT WRONG.

people whining about cheating... if you have to cheat.. you suck. go back to the track and practice.

does anyone else notice how the current/past champs won?

lets see..lets use the Mini Guys..
Dan Garber - uses a car for an entire year... and gets it down pat..dominates.
Troy Crabtree - wins with a car no one could get right..TWICE.
Deven White - perfects motor tuning and gets nicknamed the "The Mini Land Missile" - TWICE!
Dylan White - drove PERFECT and found a secret set up with tires.

for you BRUSHED/NIMH guys... you guys will continue to get slower and slower because support for these products is dwindling. pretty soon.. they might be gone?

so for you "anti-technology" guys who dont want to make the leap and make the INVESTMENT now for BL/Lipo..... i have an HD-DVD player to go with your NIMH/Brushed purchase along with 8-Trak and Betamax players too.
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:04 PM
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For fixed gear classes that have run brushed silver cans why does the BL vs. 27T motor decision need to be binary? If a 12K 5v motor roughly equal a 17.5BL why not set the RPM rule and allow both?
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:16 PM
  #9174  
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Aww, you had to bring up Betamax... I taped all my Robotech episodes on that!
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:21 PM
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Oh, and I meant adjusting the timimg without grinding the inside tab to get the endbell to spin. I wouldn't call that adjustable...more like rigged.
Originally Posted by lbckevin
All of the motors you listed dude have adjustable timing. You loosen the 3 end bell screws and twist the can, wa la....adjustable timing.
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:29 PM
  #9176  
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well i see that every one has posted an opinion but as i see it the one opinion that is relevant is not posted so until it is don't worry be happy tamiya runs a great series and its fun so buck up and have fun
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:35 PM
  #9177  
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Originally Posted by Core Creations
Oh, and I meant adjusting the timimg without grinding the inside tab to get the endbell to spin. I wouldn't call that adjustable...more like rigged.
You dont have to grind anything.....check out the novak forum for the timing. Loosen the bolts and rotate the colored ring ( yellow , black , orange) and you adjusted the timing.
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:42 PM
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Ah, I see it
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:14 PM
  #9179  
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Hebiki - I guess you want the TCS to be an exclusive series that is restricted to the racers who have an unlimited budget. That's fine if Tamiya wants to keep it that way. But, there are a lot more Tamiya fans who would like to run a regional race, but see it as too expensive. That's factual not whining. I would think that there should be room for everyone. With you logic there would be no need for classes. All cars of all types would run together and the GT1 & GT2 guys could dominate and the rest would fight it out for the lower mains.
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MD
Hebiki - I guess you want the TCS to be an exclusive series that is restricted to the racers who have an unlimited budget. That's fine if Tamiya wants to keep it that way. But, there are a lot more Tamiya fans who would like to run a regional race, but see it as too expensive. That's factual not whining. I would think that there should be room for everyone. With you logic there would be no need for classes. All cars of all types would run together and the GT1 & GT2 guys could dominate and the rest would fight it out for the lower mains.
all i hear you saying is BUDGET THIS.. budget that. guess what... people will find a way to dump money into hobby in order to win.

its not just me. i have a budget now and last year.... (before it was budgetless...damn homeownership. ). but guess what. my budget last year and this year was the same. last year i was 14th overall.. and won the Bmain... this year.. 4th overall and blew out in the triple As....i did better this year because GUESS WHAT. i had track time!

want another example.. Kevin Cole. missed the A last year. made the A this year. what changed? TRACK TIME.

some people have disposable income.. some dont. but dont cater the rules because one guy works his butt off working overtime just so he can spend more on his toys. know what i mean? its just the way it is. some ppl will dump a whole bunch of money.. some are a little more budget minded.

MD.. dont take it personal that im blasting you. id blast Gary Katzer.. but the guy has been bald for a long time. id blast Kevin Cole.. but then where am i gonna get my spares?

plus i just like starting trouble on here. so where's next year's schedule?
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