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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 06-23-2008, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
It's already been specumalated upon in earlier posts, so it's no big secret that Fred is considering plain old 540J's with no tricks applied: no magnetic enhancement (cogging will give you away! ) and a 14K (or lower) max rpm at 5 volts. Old skool!

Depending on which 540J core they wind up using for a spec motor (hard brush or soft brush), getting into the mid to high 13K's is pretty easy to do using the break in techniques generally known by most racers. It definitely takes the motor out of the equation.

If they wind up using the brandy new Orion 2400 LiPo (it's a 2C like the 3200), you might have to add a little weight to your car if it's currently legal with a 3200. With that combo, the speeds will be very, very close and run time will not be a problem. Slow, but close- and hey, it's all relative. So practice making nice, clean runs and keeping your momentum up through the turns.
And how, inquiring minds want to know, do we keep it with "no tricks applied?" If the motors are in the racers hands before the race/tech, tricks can/will be applied. The racer can take them down the street to their magnetizer.

Here's an idea that could work for MINI's, if you really want to fully remove motor madness from the equation, kinda like Mini Mayhem: Have tech hand you a motor to put in your car at tech just before your race, and require everyone to use the standard bullet connectors that come on the 540J's? With mini, that would work, as there is no gear mesh to worry about, put on the pinion (20 tooth for all, never heard of anyone using anything other than 20 at TCS CA), and screw the motor in. Would take all of about 60 secs for the racer at tech. Heck, the motors could all have 20 tooth pinions supplied and pre installed by Tamiya (and maybe even have the good hardened 20 toothers ) and that would eliminate one step. Tamiya would have about 1 motor/pinion combo per racer (all of the same core), and you walk up and pick a random motor at tech. Each motor gets used once per round. (Have a couple extra motors, just in case one motor proves to be out of the ordinary (or DOA).) After you marshall, you take the motor out of your car at the tech table, put it back in the box, and hand it back to tech. 540J's are pretty heat resistant, (I've had fairly good luck with the black cans in minis, but black cans might well have a higher failure rate, even in Minis, in the CA sun), we shouldn't have to worry about someone getting stuck with a heat abused bad motor. Each motor would be subjected to virtually identical loads during use.

This would require less tech work (no RPM, amp draw to ever test), just watch the racer put the motor in his car. There is nothing I know of that can be done to a 540J in the car in the five minutes between installation and being on the track for your race that will make any difference (yeah, you could try and freeze it, put in your choice of monster drops, drop kick your car (but that probably wouldn't help anyway!)).

Of course, this approach also eliminates standard and perfectly legal motor break in techniques, not sure you want to go that far. But my thought is this - what I think they want to do is rule out the extraordinary (aka not legal) modifications (comm twisting, magnet zapping, or other more extreme measures) from the equation. Just an idea.

For GT-2, it indeed is a bit trickier, as you have gearing options. The gearing options can cause motor overheating, so the motors might not remain equal over the course of the event. The GT-2 cars also are not "plug & play" on gear mesh, so it would be more difficult to the the tech install process that Mini's would do well with.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:32 PM
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No tricks applied means just that - I can show anyone in about a minute how to tell whether a motor has been romanced with magnetic enhancement, regardless of the rpm level. And higher torque/spool up opportunity aside, magnetic enhancement is primarily used to move the power number up the rpm scale. A 14K (or lower, please!) limit effectively takes the motor out of the equation.

Dave, as you know I was an enthusiastic participant in the Mayhem race and I like your idea about the handout motors, but not sure that Tamiya has the headcount to make that work (and I'll put my own pinion on, thanks very much).

With regard to GT2, just mandate a minimum FDR. Simple.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:28 PM
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Talking TCS Finals! Yeah baby yeah;

From earlier posts I also believe the changes are based on what Fred hears from both race directors and racers that it should be about race skills and not motor tweeking and battery advantages. I'm sure in the end decisions made are based on fairness and parts availibility, and knowing that there's always someone who won't be happy of the rule changes. ie you can't please everybody!
In the end you hope that the best driver wins and everybody has a great time in the finals and takes home some great memories and maybe some new friends!
Fred has a tough job and I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. But, if anybody can put on a GREAT,fair and fun race, he can!
Just my 2$
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:37 PM
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hey so I have an 416 what class dose that go in GT1?
what motors and batt can I run?
where can I see the rules at?
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicko
hey so I have an 416 what class dose that go in GT1?
what motors and batt can I run?
where can I see the rules at?
416 is GT-1 class only. Go to www.tamiyausa.com and look in the "TCS Racing" tab for the rules. This years rule for regionals is LIPO or NIMH's (specified in rules) and 19T brushed or 10.5 brushless. Last years Nats were NIMH only and Tamiya 23T motor you bought at the race. With brushless and LIPO added to this years regionals format, Nats is still up in the air.

As for "enhancements" - I would prefer to see those done to the female persuasion only.

For GT-2, burning motors could be controlled by a set FDR as rccardr mentioned. However, with the option of probably about mid 80's to 105T spurs that will fit, different front and rear pulleys and center gear tooth options (from TA05, TA05-R and IFS-R versions), it is a lot more difficult for Tech to check FDR on each car. I think the easy rule to tech this year is to eliminate the motors completely and put the "team" back into racing ! Each driver has a team mate that pushes the car around the track. This will now emphasize the driver and his team mates skills, as well as find employment for recent out of work or retired track stars.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray k
I'm watching you Mr. Webb


Me and Doc will be pitting together, and I bought all the red dots motors.

Just kidding, Can't go wrong with red dot motors.

Three weeks to go!!!!!!!!!!

Ray K
Make that three pitting together......us old guys need to stick together.
Looking forward give & take lessons in Mini!
MJ
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:30 PM
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Kevin ,


You want to be my teammate....?

I am not a good pusher, so I would need your help, nor am I pretty to look at, bent over pushing a toy car...

We can have try out from the local track team .......
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
No tricks applied means just that - I can show anyone in about a minute how to tell whether a motor has been romanced with magnetic enhancement, regardless of the rpm level. And higher torque/spool up opportunity aside, magnetic enhancement is primarily used to move the power number up the rpm scale. A 14K (or lower, please!) limit effectively takes the motor out of the equation.

Dave, as you know I was an enthusiastic participant in the Mayhem race and I like your idea about the handout motors, but not sure that Tamiya has the headcount to make that work (and I'll put my own pinion on, thanks very much).

With regard to GT2, just mandate a minimum FDR. Simple.
Whatever the rules, looking forward to returning to CA once again for Nationals. Only 2 months away now.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:24 PM
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game on.....
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by madjack
game on.....
Word.

Bring the pain!
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:09 PM
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I like the putting in the motor before the race idea.

Perhaps the way to go with it is Tamiya tech all the motors before the race to eliminate the stinkers or rocketships. You buy the # of motors Tamiya allows you to have. You only get to see your motors as you put them in just before your race and take them out after your race. They cannot leave tech but you can choose between # of motors you buy and do simple cleaning and/or hook up a battery to hear rpms. After your last race you get to claim/keep your motors.

To insure they stay in tech just DQ the racer from the event if the motors leave tech

That is my thought for GT2... Mini the grab bag is a cool idea but my above idea might be simpler over all....
No need for RPM checks, amp draw checks, FDR, etc. . .
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:19 PM
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How about we all run brushless with fixed gearing, its real simple.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lbckevin
Kevin ,


You want to be my teammate....?

I am not a good pusher, so I would need your help, nor am I pretty to look at, bent over pushing a toy car...

We can have try out from the local track team .......
Sorry Kevin, I already have the flying fish as a team mate. However, I also have a very cute team mate (Tigress) who could probably distract the other drivers on the stand while pushing my car around.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:14 PM
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Cool

Word is theres going to be a TCS race in Beautiful Down Town Glen Burnie Maryland ! Anyone know how many sign ups or when is the date of such race ? . . .
From the looks of it the track looks smooth !

thx ..
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:47 PM
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does anyone know what the past champs class is going to be

Fred mentioned something about durgas
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