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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 06-02-2008, 12:09 PM
  #8206  
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I agree with Bob. It's not a good idea to institute a new rule less than a week before the event.

Some people rely on setup, others work hard on motors, others buy killer batteries, and a lucky few actually have superior driving skills. It's a rare participant who manages to put two or more of those together. If you're going to address motors, might as well have everyone run the exact same setup (friction shocks!!), use handout batteries (Nicad 2400's !!!), or make the good drivers face the wrong direction (or maybe an eyepatch!!!) ...but don't announce it on the Monday before the race.

Last time I checked, we were racers going racing, & people like that are going to try everything they can to get ahead of the next guy in line.

Bottom line: it's not a setup war or a driving war, a battery war or a motor war...it's an EVERYTHING war.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:02 PM
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Aha,I get it.People have silver cans who are past this spec.I am not the race director for the UC race but will pass this on Grandpa.More then likely they will not hold people to these rules because their will be a minority that will complain about the rule for whatever reason i.e. no more advantage.I can care less about motor to be honest.My setup and driving get the job done time and time again.But in reality to not have a threshold on these motors set by Tamiya for all the stops is stupid IMO.Again another reason I am not racing mini.Sorry if I scared you guys with the RPM chingadera.Seems the Tamiya Aliso stop had rules for a reason and I figured there was a good reason behind it.Guess not.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by racenut123
Aha,I get it.People have silver cans who are past this spec.I am not the race director for the UC race but will pass this on Grandpa.More then likely they will not hold people to these rules because their will be a minority that will complain about the rule for whatever reason i.e. no more advantage.I can care less about motor to be honest.My setup and driving get the job done time and time again.But in reality to not have a threshold on these motors set by Tamiya for all the stops is stupid IMO.Again another reason I am not racing mini.Sorry if I scared you guys with the RPM chingadera.Seems the Tamiya Aliso stop had rules for a reason and I figured there was a good reason behind it.Guess not.
Don't get me wrong. I'm also in favor of a Spec. on the motors for reasons of my own. What I was taking exception too was not announcing it with reasonable notice. A motor Guru I am not, but there is a place for them in this hobby also. Unfortunately, I won't be at UC to race in the C main, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but still do believe that "rules" should be clear and competitors should have a reasonable time frame to prepare thier weapons of war. I am Japanese, contrary to what BK would have you believe, and wasn't in favor of Pearl Harbor either.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:24 PM
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I'm also in favor of a Spec. on the motors for reasons of my own
Me too: stock out of the box and simply broken in, max RPM 13,200. Red Dots aside (hey, that's simply a response to a market need ), I can drive a slow car better than a fast one (please note avatar). Slower cars also go through fewer tires and break/wear out fewer parts.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:42 PM
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At the track this weekend it was pointed out to me that the end bell on my motor is metal, making it a rare find. True? It came in my TT-01 kit. I never really paid attention. It is a rocket ship though.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by raffaelli
At the track this weekend it was pointed out to me that the end bell on my motor is metal, making it a rare find. True? It came in my TT-01 kit. I never really paid attention. It is a rocket ship though.
As far as I know, they haven't made the motors with the composite end bells for years. They all have the metal end bells. You may have one of the infamous 4 slots
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
As far as I know, they haven't made the motors with the composite end bells for years. They all have the metal end bells. You may have one of the infamous 4 slots

I have two of them. Can in each of my TT-01ís. They also have a weird looking copper slot on the arm lock. I will shot a photo as soon as I get a chance.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by racenut123
Aha,I get it.People have silver cans who are past this spec.I am not the race director for the UC race but will pass this on Grandpa.More then likely they will not hold people to these rules because their will be a minority that will complain about the rule for whatever reason i.e. no more advantage.I can care less about motor to be honest.My setup and driving get the job done time and time again.But in reality to not have a threshold on these motors set by Tamiya for all the stops is stupid IMO.Again another reason I am not racing mini.Sorry if I scared you guys with the RPM chingadera.Seems the Tamiya Aliso stop had rules for a reason and I figured there was a good reason behind it.Guess not.
Sounds like you need to pull the mini out this weekend....
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:56 PM
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LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!!!!!!



As doc would say( 6 days 6 days 6 days 6 days 6 days
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:07 PM
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Awww, man.
I am SO BUMMED I won't be there this weekend!
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:53 PM
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IMO as long as Tamiya sells kit type johnson/mabuchi, there will always be a class for them.

I think the best solution would be a rebuildable with bearings. Have a spec arm that cannot be tampered with (sort of like Roar27) maybe 23t. Easy to spot any sort of tampering by the wire size, shaft length, com size, magnet size, magnet strength test (I carry a gauss gage), etc. . . So if someone is in question, you have a template to go by. In a dream world I think something like that could be beneficial, although reality don't think that would happen.

I am leaning towards BL but I think there needs to be a low buck option. BL is great but will scare away new people with a $250 ++ motor package. Then depending on the motor you will need a whole new set of gears to be competitive. Many can be competitive with a used esc and new motor for pretty cheap. I wish there was a better option but going totally BL would be a mistake.
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
IMO as long as Tamiya sells kit type johnson/mabuchi, there will always be a class for them.

I think the best solution would be a rebuildable with bearings. Have a spec arm that cannot be tampered with (sort of like Roar27) maybe 23t. Easy to spot any sort of tampering by the wire size, shaft length, com size, magnet size, magnet strength test (I carry a gauss gage), etc. . . So if someone is in question, you have a template to go by. In a dream world I think something like that could be beneficial, although reality don't think that would happen.

I am leaning towards BL but I think there needs to be a low buck option. BL is great but will scare away new people with a $250 ++ motor package. Then depending on the motor you will need a whole new set of gears to be competitive. Many can be competitive with a used esc and new motor for pretty cheap. I wish there was a better option but going totally BL would be a mistake.
Everyone keeps talking about how expensive brushless is, I just looked on Towers website, and a sport system can be had for $175 and thats for a 10.5 motor. If you add up the cost of a brushed speedo and all the crap that you need to maintain brushed motors and the fact that 1 brushless motor should last at least 2-3 race seasons, I am failing to understand where all the expense is coming from. Yes there is an initial investment, but in the long run it is very cost effective. And lets face it, do you really need a pro level speedo to run a mini? especially if you are running a 17.5 or 21.5
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:30 AM
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Who cares about brushless if and when they make it a new rule then we can follow it untill then we have what we have which is a set of rules that are not very defenitive and people are doing everyhting they can to be as fast as they can its called racing not running around the track. So lets drop it untill we see further action by tamiya I am sick of hearing the whinning.
As everyone knows lets go have fun first.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:12 PM
  #8219  
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Originally Posted by racenut123
Aha,I get it.People have silver cans who are past this spec.I am not the race director for the UC race but will pass this on Grandpa.More then likely they will not hold people to these rules because their will be a minority that will complain about the rule for whatever reason i.e. no more advantage.I can care less about motor to be honest.My setup and driving get the job done time and time again.But in reality to not have a threshold on these motors set by Tamiya for all the stops is stupid IMO.Again another reason I am not racing mini.Sorry if I scared you guys with the RPM chingadera.Seems the Tamiya Aliso stop had rules for a reason and I figured there was a good reason behind it.Guess not.
Yo Racenut - as I asked Sir Fred a few weeks ago, it is at the discretion of the race director if they are going to have motor rules at each race for Silver Can. If it's Monday before the race weekend, it is still the organizers, not the drivers call. With a 135' back straight, I say "heck yeah" on motor tech. On a maybe 65' straight at Seattle you could see the difference between motors on a short straight even in the top five of the A main in GT-3 (and there were 29 qualifiers in GT-3 so it was a strong field in the A). It's probably a good guess that those people that have uber tricked out silver cans also have some milder versions and stock ones. After all, 15K RPM at 5 volts is still allowing room for tweaking. Besides, Larry has nothing better to do on Sunday.

BP Shadow - I agree with you on the "cost" of brushless, especially for racing. I can't tell you how many times when I am in the LHS and the people are explaining the difference between costs of brushless vs non-brushed. Lets be serious, how many 10-17 year olds are buying their "first kit" and how many dad's are buying their 10-17 year old their "first kit". Most of the time once the dad hears "you can run the same lipo battery for 2-3 years and the same brushles motor for a couple of years", they are forking out the cash so dad does not have to keep buying new motors and batteries. I like how in GT-1 and GT-2, you have a choice of brush or brushless, LIPO or NIMH with a minimum weight. This gives us as drivers so many alternatives, you may forget you wanted a chicken sandwich when you went to order and walk away with a cheese burger.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:46 PM
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Yes to confirm, the RPM rule is something to the discretion of the race director at each event. At Aliso, we chose to institute a RPM limit.

It's a whole catch 22 thing with the BL discussion. When do you want to pay more money: now or later? BL and lipo are far more cost effective long run, but the initial costs are steep at the moment. Brushed and NimH are relatively cheap initial, but the tools to maintain and the replacement cost will be far more expensive within a year than the initial costs of lipo and BL. You can't create rules that scare people off before they buy a kit.

For the moment, there is no winning in this arguement, and the rules are what they are for the rest of 2008. For 2009, we will look at the options againa and determine what is best for TCS and each class.

Kevin, your analogy did nothing more than make me hungry and confused....so I guess really nothing different than the normal for me.
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