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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 02-27-2008, 10:26 AM
  #7636  
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I agree, Jeff. Not really sure that the situation as it is right now is 'potentially ruinous' as Dave says- Mini and GT3 are often two of the largest classes at TCS events, so people are obviously not running away- but I'd be willing to make the class slower, if for no other reason than that I can drive better with a slower car (it's an age thing). Slower cars might also make some of the hyper-fast sedan guys (who can actually drive these little rockets well) less interested so they'll move to other classes and leave us alone.

Here's an alternative: publish the 2009 TCS Mini rules NOW. Limit motors to
1)the latest kit Mabuchi (the dull ones with the white cap on the stacks)- no more 4 vents, no more 540J's, only the new stuff that everybody can buy, and
2)ban any magnet/timing enhancement techniques (these are easily determined by a knowledgeable tech person- I'd be happy to demonstrate), and
3)limit motor RPM to 13,500 at five volts (easily checked with an Orion in about 10 seconds). That's a bit above your average nicely broken in new Mabuchi, so nobody gets stuck. Just tech and mark Mini motors when racers check in and mandate use of the same motor for the Q's and Mains (no need for multiple motors when the numbers are that low- they'll live pretty mich forever), with a 2nd motor special exception for the odd racer who has a motor that just dies.

That way:
A)everyone has time to burn out/wear out their existing VooDoo motors during the remainder of the 2008 season, and
B)we'll all be prepared and not surprised next year, and
C)the amp draw with the new motors is so low that the Tamiya ESC's that come with the kits will actually work pretty well & racer's won't feel they have to buy the latest NovaTekRP 5000 for $200, and
D)tires and inserts will be less of an issue due to the lower speeds, and
E)batteries will be less of an issue, whether Lipo or Nimh, and
F)speeds will be more even from car to car.

Of course, this means that driving skill becomes an even larger component of a winning drive, and that the fast guys/good drivers will still win, but there will be a lot less to complain about with regard to motors.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:51 AM
  #7637  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
...
Publish the 2009 TCS Mini rules NOW. Limit motors to
...
I agree, rccardr.
All good, reasonable stuff.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:19 AM
  #7638  
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Why not just go with handout motors??? Pick up a motor for each heat, turn it in at the end of the heat. Pick up another motor for the next heat. At the end of the event, you keep the motor you finished with. To offset the cost to Tamiya, each racer would have to buy a motor for the event. It wouldn't take much effort to administer either.
We ran a program similar to this at SoCal for over 2 years with a minimum of hassle and with a maximum of fun and door to door racing in every heat. The benefit to Tamiya to compensate for the slight additional labor would be the ton of motors they would sell. Of course some preplanning on their part to have sufficient motors in stock would be nice. I believe Trackside did something like this and had a great event from all the reports.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:21 AM
  #7639  
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Originally Posted by RaceBucks
I'm a huge believer in the LiPo/Brushless conversion to even everything out, keep costs down, and maintenance low. I think for GT-1 and 2 it makes the most sense (no experence with F103).

But with Mini and GT-3 the cars come with an ESC and motor; requireing brushless would drive many away. I'm going to run a stock TT-01 in GT-3 (bought the cheapest sedan Tamiya makes, $70 with discount from tower) only upgrading for bearings and the gear ratio; running the motor from the kit and the kit esc. Even running the stock friction shocks, plastic drive shaft and fixed toe and arms. I'm trying to run the car for under $100, and have been having lots of fun with it; we'll see this weekend if it is competative.
I think the allure of not having to deal with motors at all might even increase the draw for those classes. No maintenence, no tuning, possibly no replacement for a long time, and close to equal performance. Can it get much better than that? Besides that, you dont need the top of the line brushless system for mini or GT3, so while its a cost, its not alot more than buying a competition speed control and a bucket of 'buchis
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:32 AM
  #7640  
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wow..we're into 2009 rules already? (just teasing doc)

here's the other side of the coin with BL. i think if you allow 21.5 or 17.5 BL in mini/GT3..... this will just let people "graduate" into other forms (GT1, GT2) of racing since they're already have a competition ready ESC. they can run 10.5, 17.5, 13.5 etc.

even better.. a guy who starts running GT3.. will be able to run GT2 now by simply swapping out a motor (not even removing the battery - lipo of course. )
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:46 AM
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I have a simpler solution. All silver can motors are claimers. Any driver sitting lower than you in the standings can "claim your motor" by handing you a new in box one, and taking the one you have in your car. To say no is an automatic DQ from the class. This solves the motor voodoo problem by either eliminating it or after massive motor claims, everyone in the class has it.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:31 PM
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Default Qualifying?

Larry/Fred

im hearing rumors of 3 qualifiers for this weekend. If so... how many count towards the main? 2 out of the 3? rocket round?

also, triple As? double Bs? just curious.

- chris
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:24 PM
  #7643  
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I would imagine that this will maybe be the last TCS season for me it seems like when people spend time, money, & energy into finding a way to be faster then the next competitor, someone who doesn't want to invest into the above will start to complain about it because its "not fair". This sounds stupid yet think about it. : Why doesn't NASCAR just hand out 350 cubic inch motors to all the racers or a certain engine to guys like John Force " Been to his house for easter he's a really nice guy" and Kenny Bernstein and tell them here you go run it " The Best Driver WINS " NO they spend alot of money to become fast and sometimes they get penalized for breaking the rules even if its by a little bit. Just give us rules and let us spend time, money, & energy in finding a way to be as fast as we can with out breaking those rules. By the way I said maybe. Anyways last race at Tamiya so lets go out with a bang " Hint Hint FRED bring alot of cool prizes and make sure everyone wins at the raffel no matter how small the prize" no pun intended Larry.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:00 PM
  #7644  
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Chris,
Just TQ all the rounds and you won't have to worry.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:19 PM
  #7645  
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
I would imagine that this will maybe be the last TCS season for me it seems like when people spend time, money, & energy into finding a way to be faster then the next competitor, someone who doesn't want to invest into the above will start to complain about it because its "not fair". This sounds stupid yet think about it. : Why doesn't NASCAR just hand out 350 cubic inch motors to all the racers or a certain engine to guys like John Force " Been to his house for easter he's a really nice guy" and Kenny Bernstein and tell them here you go run it " The Best Driver WINS " NO they spend alot of money to become fast and sometimes they get penalized for breaking the rules even if its by a little bit. Just give us rules and let us spend time, money, & energy in finding a way to be as fast as we can with out breaking those rules. By the way I said maybe. Anyways last race at Tamiya so lets go out with a bang " Hint Hint FRED bring alot of cool prizes and make sure everyone wins at the raffel no matter how small the prize" no pun intended Larry.
If you want to do motor voodoo run in GT2 or GT1 where it's not a problem. The idea of a silver can is that it's a spec slower motor. It's supposed to be even. The NASCAR comparison is not relevant, those guys race for a living, I'd say a better comparison would be the spec Ford class in SCCA where you buy the sealed motor.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:21 PM
  #7646  
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Putting the last bow on my boxes and getting ready for the cross-country journey to Aliso for the good-bye party. With any luck I'll be dragging tail into the parking lot around 3:00pm on Friday for a pit spot and a few practice laps.

Sorry Chris, but there just aren't enough B's in the box for me to try and run GT2. That and I'm still a little gun shy about how bad it was handling at Trackside!

So it's "motor-gate" Mini and Tamtech Porsche for me at the last hoorah at TA. Never thought I'd ever bring this many silver cans to one race for ONE CLASS!

Gonna be fun, regardless of how many DQ's (and that's not Dairy Queen).
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:30 PM
  #7647  
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Chris, with all due respect, I don't see where it says in the rules that the Mini motors are all supposed to be equal. It's competitive- that's why they call it racing. I dug hard to get where I am and find out what I know, I'm proud of that, and I don't give up easily.

If they want to change the rules so that all motors are equal like the sealed motor class in SCCA, that's fine with me...but I'll still be trying to find an edge somehow just like the fast SCCA guys.

Why? Because I'm a competitive racer.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:46 PM
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And that is why i went back to building big cars!!
come on guys how mini of you were the top dog and some came along and was faster,"THERE CHEATING!!!!!!!" can't tell how mine times i've heard that!
It is called racing!!it is the nature of the sport,for years I was the slow guys and when i found a class it i was good at and started to win some races and"HE'S CHEATING!!!!" no found a way to gofast with driving and setup.Example,In the last race at Toys for Boys in Atlanta I had some tech my car becaus it was fast in the rain,.....why????? Setup.....
don't limit the rules on all what stuff mine new faces and alot of old faces will fad,because of expence of new gear and time.I myself really don't want to buy all new stuff, its get to be more like work than FUN!!

As for my racing its a 50/50 for memphis with all the bellyaching about motors
maybe its time to step back and look at the TCS and what is all about.Its about RACING! and finding a edge on the next guy.
Mine of you know me and i try not to say anything but this limiting the motors is getting old look at the NAT in 06 motor rule was 1.9 amps and WOW it changed the Morning of the start HUMMMMMMMM?????

Sorry just my 2cents,
M.M.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:30 PM
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I don't really have anything to stirr the pot on this subject.

The only way Johnson/Mabuchi motors will be a thing of the past is when they stop releasing them in Tamiya kits.

I am a fan of the Trackside mini-mahem grab bag concept and I am also a fan of protesting a fast motor. Maybe a better word is "Claiming" a fast motor.

For "claiming", in addition to giving a "new" never ran replacement motor to the claimed racer, there should also be a fee like $15. I would want something for time and effort as well as to come close to what I would sell the motor for. I would implement the claimed function when tech does not rpm check the motors, which sounds like every other TCS race except for Aliso. Those fabled 4 holed motors might stay home for fear of losing them....

Regardless of the bitchin and bellyachein I am looking forward to Memphis. I wish I could be in Aliso one more time, even just to chisel a piece of the striped burm... lol
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:41 PM
  #7650  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Chris, with all due respect, I don't see where it says in the rules that the Mini motors are all supposed to be equal. It's competitive- that's why they call it racing. I dug hard to get where I am and find out what I know, I'm proud of that, and I don't give up easily.

If they want to change the rules so that all motors are equal like the sealed motor class in SCCA, that's fine with me...but I'll still be trying to find an edge somehow just like the fast SCCA guys.

Why? Because I'm a competitive racer.
With everything I said, do you think I'm hitting the track with an untouched mini motor? No way. Until the rules change I'll do everything I can to make my motor as fast as possible.
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