Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Racing Forum
Tamiya Championship Series >

Tamiya Championship Series

Like Tree829Likes

Tamiya Championship Series

Old 02-26-2008, 12:17 PM
  #7621  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (27)
 
Turbonium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,302
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Hebiki
awwww come on! i need someone to try to top my "KINK" launch in GT2 AND GT1.
hey... where is that pic of mine from Nats last year? that should have been a pretty good one!
Turbonium is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 06:06 PM
  #7622  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Just a note that I will have a limited number of Aliso-legal TCS silver cans available at the track when I arrive on Saturday morning. Some for Mini, others for GT3, one for F103GT.

Reserve in advance at [email protected].

Red Dot Power Rocks!
rccardr is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 06:14 PM
  #7623  
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
Default

Looks like all the hard work to make a silver can as fast asa black can is out the window!!! Silver end bell Mabuchi 16,500 @ 8.0 volts!!!!! This SUCKS, but I'll see you all there on saturday! Harry (flourescent green mini)
superharry is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:14 PM
  #7624  
Tech Lord
iTrader: (26)
 
Hebiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 12,922
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Turbonium
hey... where is that pic of mine from Nats last year? that should have been a pretty good one!
hit up Yellowtaro. it was his camera that i used to take the pic.

- Chris
Hebiki is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:36 PM
  #7625  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (11)
 
SirSwiftAlot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SOCAL the fastest mini cooper guys in the nation
Posts: 862
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

I don't know why everyone is making such a fuss there is an easy solution to this grand problem if we all run a motor that is over the limit then Fred would have no choice but to DQ all of us and then he would realize that he should just let it be untill nationals. I have several motors that meet or underseed the rules so who ever can push the envelope without tearing it will be tough to contend with. Who cares lets go out there and have some fun thats what this hobby is for to begin with. If there is anyone who needs help with getting there motors within range come see me at the race and I will help you just as long as you don't drive very good. See you friday.

Equation for a winning driver in GT3 and MINI - Tires + Legal Motor = A Main
SirSwiftAlot is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:08 PM
  #7626  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
 
RaceBucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Posts: 512
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

While the rule on silver can performance has been clarified to be at 5 volts only, the discussion on the RPM's at 5v & 7.2v not being linear made me decide to test my motors.

I have 4 silver cans: 1 4 hole (thanks Granpa for the butterfingers!), 2 Johnsons and 1 Mabuchi. The results are that in the 5v to 7.2v range the RPM's/volt is linear. See chart below.

By the way, can you guess which motor I'm going to run in my Mini?
Attached Thumbnails Tamiya Championship Series-workbook1.jpg  
RaceBucks is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:15 PM
  #7627  
Tech Lord
iTrader: (26)
 
Hebiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 12,922
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by rccardr
Just a note that I will have a limited number of Aliso-legal TCS silver cans available at the track when I arrive on Saturday morning. Some for Mini, others for GT3, one for F103GT.

Reserve in advance at [email protected].

Red Dot Power Rocks!
sent you an email
Hebiki is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:27 PM
  #7628  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (8)
 
414MPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 989
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
...... I have decent 540's, but nothing like what I saw at Trackside. I had to borrow a silver can from Dave Weir to even come close to what some others had in 103GT, and it still wasnt enough. ......nod:
Brad, In my opinion you had too much motor. Every time you got on the power you were sliding. Motor was NOT what held you back.

A very wise and accomplished Bonniville 200+ mph land speed record holder once told me "The harder you work, the luckier you get."

Marty
414MPH is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:24 PM
  #7629  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (24)
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,324
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by 414MPH
Brad, In my opinion you had too much motor. Every time you got on the power you were sliding. Motor was NOT what held you back.

A very wise and accomplished Bonniville 200+ mph land speed record holder once told me "The harder you work, the luckier you get."

Marty
Marty,
I wont argue with that.The motor that Dave lent me was plenty good, better than anything I had in my box(thanks again Dave) all I am saying is that
there was some serious horsepower in 103.
The car didnt feel like it was stepping out under power, but I never saw it at track level. I did discover in qualifying that the tires I was running had lumps in the rear set where the CA got into the insert , but that was changed for the mains, and the car was much better. If I had to pinpoint one thing that was detrimental to performance, it was probably lack of seat time. I didnt drive for two weeks before leaving to go up there, and I think that really hurt, because both cars were pretty good, no major handling issues.
Starting at the back of the grid didnt help either, as I got caught up in more than one wreck every main. One of these days I will be up there, dont know when but it will happen
BP SHADOW is offline  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:29 PM
  #7630  
Tech Addict
 
westerdude42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bellevue Wa.
Posts: 637
Default

Originally Posted by rccardr
Just a note that I will have a limited number of Aliso-legal TCS silver cans available at the track when I arrive on Saturday morning. Some for Mini, others for GT3, one for F103GT.

Reserve in advance at [email protected].

Red Dot Power Rocks!
Hey Doc, torque or rpm in 103? I start testing Friday.
westerdude42 is offline  
Old 02-27-2008, 03:00 AM
  #7631  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Soft torque, high rpm. Too much torque will make the car step out (see above). Too much rpm just makes you smile...
rccardr is offline  
Old 02-27-2008, 07:08 AM
  #7632  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I understand that a few people have spent alot of time and money to learn these motors inside and out, but it is really counter to what running a kit motor is about. I have decent 540's, but nothing like what I saw at Trackside. I had to borrow a silver can from Dave Weir to even come close to what some others had in 103GT, and it still wasnt enough. I dont know what the answer is, but I think Fred is trying to get a handle on it before it kills the lower classes. Going brushless I believe really leveled the playing field in GT1 and 2, and I think that at Trackside we saw some really good racing because of it. I wish I was going to be out at Aliso this weekend, as I was at the first race ever held there back in 94' but I used up the weekend pass and the budget to go to Trackside. So good luck to all that will be there and make sure to keep the pictures coming and the stories as well
And that silver can you borrowed from me, while one of the best I had, came nothing close to what others had, and my Mini results with a similar motor showed it. My car on the straight looked like it was moving backwards at times in comparison to the really high RPM guys. My car could run with the best of them in the infield, but motor RPM killed me. I used to know how to break in a good silver can, but not anymore. I guess the thought of rare earth magnets, magnet zapping, comm cranking and the like is really not what I thought mini racing was about.

That's why we had so much fun with the Mini Mayhem race lasta year, where everyone had to turn in the motor from one round to swap for a blind swap to a different motor for the next round, and the motor you used from round one was used by someone else for round two, etc. Rules provided that dyno's were to be left home, no magnet zappers, just clean it and run it. No point in doing voodoo magic to a motor, as you would have it used against you in the next round. Made for some really fun, close racing.

And for the Novak race at Trackside, where Mini's have been a mainstay for years, we went to the brushless 17.5 this year. While we were planning on running the Novak race this year with a Mini Mayhem motor blind swap rule, the sponsor wanted an "all brushless" race. I quickly tested both a 17.5 and a 13.5 in a mini, and found that the 17.5 was just about perfect. (The 13.5 in a mini is frankly more than the chassis can handle on a high grip surface.) Again, the racing was much closer. Yes, those using an ESC like the Speed Passion that I'm told can artifically increase the timing of the motor on the fly as desired had a bit of an edge over a basic Novak brushless esc, but the wide variation between the silver motor tweakers and the rest of the field was dramatically curtailed.

Actually, the 17.5 in a Mini is a very good substitute for the silver can. A bit more low end punch, but very similar top end. Now that Tamiya TCS has gone to brushless and lipos in many of the classes, I think it would be a GREAT idea to implement it for the Mini class as well. Yes, the initial investment of a brushless ESC + 17.5 is greater than an ESC and a silver can, but if you factor in the cost of buying a handful of silver cans to try and find that one "good" one, the cost factor does even out pretty well. Put a brushless 17.5 and a lipo battery in a mini and you get a very low maintenace combo that emphasizes what the mini class has always been - a fun, low key, even match up where trading a bit of paint and laughing as you race go hand in hand. And best of all, it would end this potentially ruinous silver can motor war once and for all.
minidriver is offline  
Old 02-27-2008, 07:50 AM
  #7633  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Auburn, Wa
Posts: 2,265
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Dave we are doing some testing with a 21.5 here at SIR.

We started a Trans Am series (Thanks Marty) and have had all the same complaints about Silver Can. We also have made a huge shift to Lipo with our entry level kit now coming with a Lipo and Lipo charger. I'll post up down the road a bit with our results at SIR.
Difuser is offline  
Old 02-27-2008, 08:37 AM
  #7634  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (24)
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,324
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by minidriver
And that silver can you borrowed from me, while one of the best I had, came nothing close to what others had, and my Mini results with a similar motor showed it. My car on the straight looked like it was moving backwards at times in comparison to the really high RPM guys. My car could run with the best of them in the infield, but motor RPM killed me. I used to know how to break in a good silver can, but not anymore. I guess the thought of rare earth magnets, magnet zapping, comm cranking and the like is really not what I thought mini racing was about.

That's why we had so much fun with the Mini Mayhem race lasta year, where everyone had to turn in the motor from one round to swap for a blind swap to a different motor for the next round, and the motor you used from round one was used by someone else for round two, etc. Rules provided that dyno's were to be left home, no magnet zappers, just clean it and run it. No point in doing voodoo magic to a motor, as you would have it used against you in the next round. Made for some really fun, close racing.

And for the Novak race at Trackside, where Mini's have been a mainstay for years, we went to the brushless 17.5 this year. While we were planning on running the Novak race this year with a Mini Mayhem motor blind swap rule, the sponsor wanted an "all brushless" race. I quickly tested both a 17.5 and a 13.5 in a mini, and found that the 17.5 was just about perfect. (The 13.5 in a mini is frankly more than the chassis can handle on a high grip surface.) Again, the racing was much closer. Yes, those using an ESC like the Speed Passion that I'm told can artifically increase the timing of the motor on the fly as desired had a bit of an edge over a basic Novak brushless esc, but the wide variation between the silver motor tweakers and the rest of the field was dramatically curtailed.

Actually, the 17.5 in a Mini is a very good substitute for the silver can. A bit more low end punch, but very similar top end. Now that Tamiya TCS has gone to brushless and lipos in many of the classes, I think it would be a GREAT idea to implement it for the Mini class as well. Yes, the initial investment of a brushless ESC + 17.5 is greater than an ESC and a silver can, but if you factor in the cost of buying a handful of silver cans to try and find that one "good" one, the cost factor does even out pretty well. Put a brushless 17.5 and a lipo battery in a mini and you get a very low maintenace combo that emphasizes what the mini class has always been - a fun, low key, even match up where trading a bit of paint and laughing as you race go hand in hand. And best of all, it would end this potentially ruinous silver can motor war once and for all.
Thanks for the confirmation Dave, I didnt want to look a gift horse in the mouth, as I really appreciate the generous use of your motor. But the bottom line is the the spirit of silver can motors is way out the window
The motor you let me use was much closer to the class standard though
I think all classes should go brushless, I believe it is a great equalizer
BP SHADOW is offline  
Old 02-27-2008, 10:03 AM
  #7635  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
 
RaceBucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Posts: 512
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I think all classes should go brushless, I believe it is a great equalizer
I'm a huge believer in the LiPo/Brushless conversion to even everything out, keep costs down, and maintenance low. I think for GT-1 and 2 it makes the most sense (no experence with F103).

But with Mini and GT-3 the cars come with an ESC and motor; requireing brushless would drive many away. I'm going to run a stock TT-01 in GT-3 (bought the cheapest sedan Tamiya makes, $70 with discount from tower) only upgrading for bearings and the gear ratio; running the motor from the kit and the kit esc. Even running the stock friction shocks, plastic drive shaft and fixed toe and arms. I'm trying to run the car for under $100, and have been having lots of fun with it; we'll see this weekend if it is competative.
RaceBucks is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.