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Old 02-26-2008, 02:13 AM
  #7606  
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003
But now to the more important question........To wad up my brushless GT2, or not to wad up my brushless GT2.......?????
thats the question ive been asking myself.

GT2 is gonna be SOOOOOOOO MUCH FUN with BL/lipo. but not as much fun as GT1
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:31 AM
  #7607  
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I'll be honest- this rule is really stupid. Not only because it takes all of the knowledge that many people have worked so hard to obtain and throws it out the window (hey, let's outlaw ESC's and oil shocks while we're at it!), but because it's badly calculated. As others have said, a 19K 7.2 volt motor is a 12.8K 5 volt motor. Everybody has one of those- it's just a broken in 540J. But a 15K motor at 5 volts is a 21-22K motor at 7.2 volts. Period. Happy to share the test data with Fred, if he'd only return my phone call or e-mail. From more than a week ago.

You guys all know me- I'm generally a pretty calm person- but I went off on a rant last night with someone about this and I don't want to write anything that I might later regret.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
thats the question ive been asking myself.

GT2 is gonna be SOOOOOOOO MUCH FUN with BL/lipo. but not as much fun as GT1
That's my thought too. Ballistic, uncontrollable speed on that wide open track! To me it may boil down to whether I have enough sedan tires to make the trek out that way with my TA05. I'll know tonight once I've had a chance to shift through my box 'O tires and see what's left from two years ago. If I can't find enough, I'll keep the Tamtech Porsche in the bag as my second class. I do want to run the Tamtech at least one more time, but it won't be much fun if we can't get a full field of 15~20 out there.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:09 AM
  #7609  
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Originally Posted by maxepower
Maybe Fred means that you can't go over both limits to be legal, i.e. if you go over the 15,000@5v. then you can't go over 20,[email protected] and if you go over 20,[email protected] then you can't go over the 15,000@5v. If you go over both limits then the motor is not legal ! Larrio, correct me if I'm wrong!
that makes somewhat more sense Max, I'm sure we will hear from the race director shortly

(or we could lobby for an outlaw mini class? lipo, no weight limit & black cans, no motor limit...oh and don't forget headlights since the additional class would need to be run in the dark)

all joking aside, I'm sure this final TA TCS event will be as entertaining as always!
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:21 AM
  #7610  
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The technicalities of motors can be taken up with the race director.

I know that this rule was implemented last year at the Nationals with no problems. It's in place for the cars that look suspicious during the race to keep the field fair. We test the motor at 5v, if it surpasses 15k rpm then we run the next test at 7.2v to see if it surpasses 19k rpm (which it most likely will). So GT3 and Mini guys need to keep their silver cans under 15k rpm @ 5 volts.

This motor rule is in place for Aliso Regional and the TCS North American Finals (Location TBA).
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:18 AM
  #7611  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
I'll be honest- this rule is really stupid. Not only because it takes all of the knowledge that many people have worked so hard to obtain and throws it out the window (hey, let's outlaw ESC's and oil shocks while we're at it!), but because it's badly calculated. As others have said, a 19K 7.2 volt motor is a 12.8K 5 volt motor. Everybody has one of those- it's just a broken in 540J. But a 15K motor at 5 volts is a 21-22K motor at 7.2 volts. Period. Happy to share the test data with Fred, if he'd only return my phone call or e-mail. From more than a week ago.

You guys all know me- I'm generally a pretty calm person- but I went off on a rant last night with someone about this and I don't want to write anything that I might later regret.
Wow Doc, I now have 5-6 motors that aren't runnable. The top 5 at least at SIR last year were turning higher RPM's than this.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:23 AM
  #7612  
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I'm a newbie at this r/c car racing gig, but have to agree with Doc that this is stupid. My main quarrel with this is for a totally different reason. If you are going to implement a rule, shouldn't it be in the Rules and Regulations to begin with?????? Why have one set of rules at one regional and not the others???? Some poor guy may fly in all the way from Virginia and find out he doesn't have one legal motor and have to buy a new one. OH, by the way, 540Js are out of stock. And if you're going to institute a rule it should make some sense???? For example, why test a motor at 7.2 v if it failed the 5v test when you already know it's going to fail??? Why do most people who know about the motor rule find out about it a week before the event????? And if they know, they found out about it on R/C Tech or the Grape Vine. Maybe this is a normal thing for TCS Veterans, but it just gives me a headache.
Still, with all this being said, I've had a great time at the TCS events I've attended (2) and would like to thank Tamiya for putting on a fun event for all of us. You appreciate stuff like this more when you're my age (72) and frankly it's just a kick for me to be out there running with you youngsters.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:40 AM
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Fred says only worry about the 15000 at 5v rule. So if your Can runs at 100,000 rpm at 7.2 volts, thats fine as long as you follow the rule 15k @ 5v rule. Hey Chris can you bring that huge magnetizer machine?
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:06 AM
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For those that have not seen the new rules yet. Hot off the TamiyaUSA site:

TCS regional silver can motor rules (Aliso Viejo ONLY)
Due to the large track at the Aliso Viejo facility, we will be imposing a silver can motor rule similar to the TCS North American Finals.
For all silver can motor classes, GT-3, MINI, F103GT and spec: There will be random spot checks on those cars deemed a little too fast for their own good. We are aware there is allot of creativity in regards to what can be done to get your silver can to go faster. The days of water dipping, comm polishing, bushing polishing, motor zapping and screw driver tampering have all been replaced with rare earth magnet experimentation. To keep things at a somewhat manageable level, motors will be tested at 5 volts using our official motor checker. Motors that read over 15,000 RPM will be disqualified for the round they were found in. Motors that go over 15,000 RPM that have been DQ'd for that round will be tested at 7.2 volts. The DQ'd motor with the highest 7.2 rpm reading will win a special prize!
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:22 AM
  #7615  
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Since they are posted on the Tamiya USA site, I would assume these are the numbers we have to adhere to. As long as nothing changes between now and Saturday, I'm ok with it. But considering I shipped most of my motors ahead of the race, I'll have to wait and see what I've got Friday night.

I do like the "special prize" feature for the fastest DQ motor. Nice touch, Uncle Fred!!!
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:40 AM
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Yum, special prize!
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:47 AM
  #7617  
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003
For those that have not seen the new rules yet. Hot off the TamiyaUSA site:

TCS regional silver can motor rules (Aliso Viejo ONLY)
Due to the large track at the Aliso Viejo facility, we will be imposing a silver can motor rule similar to the TCS North American Finals.
For all silver can motor classes, GT-3, MINI, F103GT and spec: There will be random spot checks on those cars deemed a little too fast for their own good. We are aware there is allot of creativity in regards to what can be done to get your silver can to go faster. The days of water dipping, comm polishing, bushing polishing, motor zapping and screw driver tampering have all been replaced with rare earth magnet experimentation. To keep things at a somewhat manageable level, motors will be tested at 5 volts using our official motor checker. Motors that read over 15,000 RPM will be disqualified for the round they were found in. Motors that go over 15,000 RPM that have been DQ'd for that round will be tested at 7.2 volts. The DQ'd motor with the highest 7.2 rpm reading will win a special prize!
You're forgeting the NOS shot speed controller
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:50 AM
  #7618  
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thank god im not running GT3. too much drama.

we need doc to type in here... FOUR MORE DAYS! FOUR MORE DAYS!!! (its not the same when i do it. )
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:53 AM
  #7619  
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003
That's my thought too. Ballistic, uncontrollable speed on that wide open track! To me it may boil down to whether I have enough sedan tires to make the trek out that way with my TA05. I'll know tonight once I've had a chance to shift through my box 'O tires and see what's left from two years ago. If I can't find enough, I'll keep the Tamtech Porsche in the bag as my second class. I do want to run the Tamtech at least one more time, but it won't be much fun if we can't get a full field of 15~20 out there.
awwww come on! i need someone to try to top my "KINK" launch in GT2 AND GT1.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:03 PM
  #7620  
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If they really wanted to make it interesting, let the guy whos motor is over the limit run it, but make him or her run it with a 1200mah pack. If it is still fast and makes time, then so be it. I understand that a few people have spent alot of time and money to learn these motors inside and out, but it is really counter to what running a kit motor is about. I have decent 540's, but nothing like what I saw at Trackside. I had to borrow a silver can from Dave Weir to even come close to what some others had in 103GT, and it still wasnt enough. I dont know what the answer is, but I think Fred is trying to get a handle on it before it kills the lower classes. Going brushless I believe really leveled the playing field in GT1 and 2, and I think that at Trackside we saw some really good racing because of it. I wish I was going to be out at Aliso this weekend, as I was at the first race ever held there back in 94' but I used up the weekend pass and the budget to go to Trackside. So good luck to all that will be there and make sure to keep the pictures coming and the stories as well
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