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Old 01-27-2008, 05:40 PM
  #7426  
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For everyone on this thread, here are my two postings on the Trackside TCS thread concerning the Lipo announcement as per 414Mph's post:

Yesterday, 09:50 PM
Post #110



Well here we go!!!

I guess I can understand the concerns on Lipos, and that is fine and good, we should all be safe.

BUUUUUT requiring a lipo sack kind of puts the cart before the horse. How about making sure that anyone using lipos have to have a LIPO SPECIFIC CHARGER. It is pretty clear through the airplane side of the RC industry that lipo packs are just as safe as any other battery pack when charged an a lipo charger AS PER THE MANUFACTURES INSTRUCTIONS. Most of the problems with lipos happen when they are charged on a non-lipo charger.

With lipos, gone is the day when you will get some "nut-job" charging at 10+ amps hoping for a little extra punch out of the pack. Lipo chargers automaticly reduce the AMPs as the pack nears capacity. This is a major safety feature that helps prevent charging fires, explosions, flares...The cell is not designed to be charged at high amp rates. Make sure that the user has a true lipo specific charger and most of the concerns are covered.

Speaking of covered, what is going to be done in regards to the current set of NIMH cell that like to explode while being charged. In the last three months I have seen at least two people rushed to the bathroom to get their face/eyes washed out due to NIMH cell explosions. May not be a bad idea to require some type of containment device in order to control cell explosions. Maybe everyone needs to charge their cells inside of a cinder block. One of these days, the injury from a exploding cell will require more than a quick run to the bathroom.

As I said before, I'm all for safety, but then lets make this safe for everyone.There needs to be more thought put into this.

In regards to the Tamiya race, I have purchased in excess of $150.00 worth of Tamiya stuff from Trackside. Trackside does not have any Lipo sacks in stock and a quick search of the mail order/internet sites came up with pretty much the same result. If I can not locate a sack before the Tamiya race, can I get my money back??????

Another question, since lipo sacks are in short supply, will I be able to race on Tuesdays or Saturdays. How about practice???? Sounds like I'm S.O.L

I feel that Lipos packs will be the next wave in battery technology in the RC world. There has been a lot of panic spread through half truths concerning this type of battery. Make sure to read the instuctions, make even more sure to follow the instructions and you should be okay.

AND

Today, 04:01 PM

Mike,

I checked with Horizon and Tower/great planes along with speedtech and they either do not carry them or they are out.

I did find them at Racers Edge http://www.racers-edge.com/store/cus...me.php?cat=334 for $28.00 plus shipping.

I ordered on for my self, but would of liked to support the hobby shop in which I race at. It's ROAR approved, but will it be Trackside approved???

Keep in mind that my issue is with all battery packs. I feel that NiMh packs (since the intro to 4200+ cells) have been unsafe and a huge liability issue for the user and track owner since they were introduced. Yet we do nothing on the individual level or on the track owners point of view.

There are potential problems with Lipos, but I feel that if you use a charger designed for Lipo packs and follow the instructions you will be safer to yourself and fellow racers than someone/anyone currently charging 4200+ NiMh cells.

Here is what I would like to see in a perfect world...Anyone who is using Lipo packs needs to show the race director that they have a charger that is able to charge Lipo cells. I see the main problem with Lipos in people attempting to charge a Lipo cell with a "conventional charger" ie: pitbull, Novak...Mis-charging a Lipo pack will cause problems with pack explosions, flare-ups...

Also keep in mind that Lipos in a HARD CASE are much more safe than the other non-hard case Lipos. I believe that part of the reason why ROAR specifies HARD CASE in their approval of Lipo .

We still need to do something about conventional cells though. It's good that we are concerned about safety, but we need to be looking at all cell types. There needs to be something done to protect the racer from an exploding NiMh cell/pack.

My last issue is with the way Trackside is implementing this rule. Tamiya is one of the first manufactures to encourage the use of Lipos, I go out ond support my local track in addition to Tamiya by buying parts and without any warning the track issues a no exceptions rule requiring something (lipo-pouch) without having any in the shop and no real answer on when they will get them in stock. I do not want to pick on Trackside, but you have a rule that you can not support with the required product and you have not completely thought through the solution to battery safety. And we are within two weeks from runnung a race that allows Lips.


PS: I have just become aware that you can get a lipo sack at Horizon, but you need to search for KSJ NOT by Lipo pouch. Here is the link: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=KSJ1821 they are $36.00...hope that they are approved by Trackside.

My issues are as follows:
In general, I want to comply with the track and will find and get a sack!!! (for my Lipo packs).
1) Trackside has made this rule while NOT SPECIFYING WHICH SACKS WILL BE "APPROVED".
2) Trackside has no Lipo sacks in stock and they are in short supply at most internet and mail order outlets. Those that are running Lipos at the Trackside TCS have less than 2 weeks to find out what is approved and the get one.
3) As with most who run TCS, I have spent "real money" at Trackside buying Tamiya parts...wheels tires, inserts.... If I can not satify points one and two, I'm screwed! I can not use Tamiya tires at Trackside, they run only Take-off CS-27's or RP-30 premounts.
4) Unfortunately this new "rule" comes to us second hand...I would be nice if Scotty would get involved in this discussion.5) WE HAVE A BATTERY PROBLEN in the RC industry right now. Lipo sacks only address half of the Lipo side of the issue. We need (I mean the race director/track owner) to make sure that all Lipo packs are being charged with a charger that is Lipo capable. In ADDITION there does need to be something done concerning NIMh cells. There are too many of these blowing up and someone IS GOING to get hurt. Forget about the legal issues for the moment, how would you like to live with the idea that it was your pack that took some kid's eye out.

Sorry about the long post, but I hope that it helps to move the conversation ahead.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:41 PM
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.*.

Last edited by Rugrat; 01-28-2008 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Double post...sorry
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:42 PM
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*.*

Last edited by Rugrat; 01-28-2008 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Triple post
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by moshmike
Sorry to all the Illinois-ans who took offense to my comment. It was more directed to AKO and whom ever agrees with him.
I'm sure Tamiya America needs your "valuable" input after 14 miserable years running a TCS series that is as popular now than ever before. Maybe you guys can call Japan and talk to Mr. Tamiya and have Fred and company fired and YOU can take their jobs and run the TCS into the ground with your HPI ideas!

Has everybody forgot why we play with toy cars???

Like Juan said: Quit your bitchen and try to have fun!!!
I think you need to crawl back under your rock or stick your head outside yer igloo because you have brain-freeze.
I was being constructive, you can keep being childish. My HPI comparisons were from the standpoint that things can be done earlier, not later. Some people misunderstood those comparisons. If I was truely "miserable" with TCS, I would not come up to Trackside and see yer muck-luck face.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:11 PM
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Lipo safety is a important concern.

I am sure Scotty is all over it and hope some specific scenarios are covered at the drivers meeting.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:23 AM
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Any word on the nationals location?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:43 AM
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Saturday I picked up my 3200 Orion LiPo pack from Trackside; along with a LiPo Sack which I ordered before it was required for safety reasons. I totally agree with Scotty's decision to require them by the way.

Here are the weights differences with my M03r Mini:

Mini & 3200 LiPo - 1177 grams (123 grams underweight)
Mini & 4200 NiMH -1398 grams (98 grams overweight)

So I will need to add 123 grams of weight to my Mini to make the 1300 gram minimum required by TCS.

Unforunately, I did not get a chance to run the car Saturday with the LiPo to make a comparison on which will be faster

And, like madjack said, that is the $60,000 question.

Stay tuned, I have set up my Mini so I can switch back and forth between the packs and I will be making that comparision this week.

Last edited by Steven Key; 01-28-2008 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:35 AM
  #7433  
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Add the weight on the underside "wings" of the battery. I run 28gs on each side, but you could add another 14 grams on each side...then I would add the rest inside the sides of the chassis. Don't put the weight towards the back. Put them as close to the battery as possible. It's nice to know we will have about 100 grams "lightness" on the big bad NIMHs!!
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:27 AM
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I looked at my car a little wondering where I was going to put the weight.

The underside on the "wings" of the battery is an excellent suggestion. I was also looking at that space inside the chassis just ahead of the battery and just behind the motor. I know I want to get the weight as low in the chassis as possible for the best C.G. I figured putting it towards the back was a bad idea.

Thanks
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Core Creations
Any word on the nationals location?
I thought Larrio said it would be at Aliso for one more year. . .
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:47 AM
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I was under the impression when he said one more race at Aliso, he was referring to the qualifier. On their site they don't have a nationals date/place on the schedule yet... so ???
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MD
larrio - All of the things you listed sound great. When you mention Chicago, can you tell us what hobby shop you'll be contacting? For the trial races how can a hobby shop apply for a trial race. Thanks for listening. Your extra effort is greatly appreciated. I realize you had to put in extra time to do it.
Larry's hobby shop. I received PM's asking me to contact him. The owner hasn't been in the past few times I called.

There will be a PDF link on the Tamiya USA website for hobby stores to download. Current stores that are Aliso Hobby members will have access to the PDF also.

Aliso is only a regional. It will be the last event at that track... possibly forever. We don't have a location for Nationals yet.

All PM's responded to as of 10:11 a.m. PST (MON 1/28/08)
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
I think you need to crawl back under your rock or stick your head outside yer igloo because you have brain-freeze.
I was being constructive, you can keep being childish. My HPI comparisons were from the standpoint that things can be done earlier, not later. Some people misunderstood those comparisons. If I was truely "miserable" with TCS, I would not come up to Trackside and see yer muck-luck face.
I'm all for being constructive but not on the same subject every year at the same time. I think I explained pretty well the dificulties of getting out a schedule in your time frame. Oh and BTW> I see that not all of the HPI race schedule is up! No brain freeze here, just reality.
See you in 2 weeks!
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:40 PM
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larrio - Thanks for the information. I appreciate you answering so quickly. I've never heard of Larry's hobby shop, but I live in the western suburbs of Chicago.



moshmike - I don't think that HPI is a model that anyone should necessarily follow, but all I would've liked is for from Tamiya to post information on the sight. If the scheduling is going slowly, stating that date changes may occur, etc. It wouldn't have too be long, just a quick heads up to those who are interested. Sometimes when ideas or comments keep coming up they're worth consideration. A forum is a place for the debate and discussion of ideas. Some are good and some are not. We should all be able to present ideas. A good example is the discussion of lipo bags. I learned a lot that I would not have if people didn't present their opinions.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:26 AM
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[QUOTE=MD;4127534]larrio - Thanks for the information. I appreciate you answering so quickly. I've never heard of Larry's hobby shop, but I live in the western suburbs of Chicago.QUOTE]

You probably haven't heard of them because they are in Detroit
Sterling Heights to be more precise
You can check them out here
http://www.larrysperformancercs.com/
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