739LikesTamiya Championship Series
09-13-2007, 12:17 PM
#6571
wow... talk about not listening to what our past champs have stated. the carpet at worlds is NOTHING like the carpet at trackside.
Didn't SIR just/or are in the process of installing carpet.
Larry makes some very good points and even if the carpet is different from what they run in Japan; I could be wrong but it's still closer than the asphalt.
Being from the Mid-west I only run asphalt twice a year, once at the TCS race in Memphis, a parking lot, and once at the Nationals. While I really enjoy the asphalt racing there is nothing wrong with carpeting.
But as someone else pointed out, ultimately it will be Fred's and Tamiya's decision.
09-13-2007, 01:24 PM
#6572
Com-on Man be nice.
Didn't SIR just/or are in the process of installing carpet.
Larry makes some very good points and even if the carpet is different from what they run in Japan; I could be wrong but it's still closer than the asphalt.
Being from the Mid-west I only run asphalt twice a year, once at the TCS race in Memphis, a parking lot, and once at the Nationals. While I really enjoy the asphalt racing there is nothing wrong with carpeting.
But as someone else pointed out, ultimately it will be Fred's and Tamiya's decision.
Didn't SIR just/or are in the process of installing carpet.
Larry makes some very good points and even if the carpet is different from what they run in Japan; I could be wrong but it's still closer than the asphalt.
Being from the Mid-west I only run asphalt twice a year, once at the TCS race in Memphis, a parking lot, and once at the Nationals. While I really enjoy the asphalt racing there is nothing wrong with carpeting.
But as someone else pointed out, ultimately it will be Fred's and Tamiya's decision.
09-13-2007, 02:06 PM
#6573
I agree with most of that. My 12 year old son was definitely discouraged in spec class at Trackside in March when he was getting spanked by "spec" drivers that made the A main in Mini and the B main in GT2. That ain't right.
I don't think we need a new spec class, just enforce the beginner aspect of spec class, and maybe open it up to more chassis'.
Can't wait till 2008 TCS.
I don't think we need a new spec class, just enforce the beginner aspect of spec class, and maybe open it up to more chassis'.
Can't wait till 2008 TCS.
Lipo's being new technology ? Maybe in an R/C car but I would not call 3+ year old technology new. Thank you to the plane and helicopter side of R/C for doing all the development work for us.
More classes for more chassis selections. Sounds good on paper, bad in practice. I used to race SCCA. I believe it is GT-4 and GT-5 classes that are being combined for next year due to lack of participation. There used to be an A, B and C production class. Now they are part of GT-1, GT-2 and GT-3. Again, little class participation. If someone who is a Novice level driver wants to run a TA05, go for it. Just expect to be in the C or D main. Whats wrong with that ? Sorry but I am one of those politically incorrect people that don't think you should create so many classes that eveyrbody gets to make the A and get a trophy becuase "we are all winners".
As for a carpet Nat's, time will tell. For all the East Coast guys that run asphalt 1-2 times a year, there are as many West Coast guys that run carpet 0-0 times a year. Then again as has been said over and over, carpet at the Japan Worlds is nothing like carpet here.
Last edited by Kevin CBR; 09-13-2007 at 02:18 PM.
09-13-2007, 02:28 PM
#6574
I am down for gt4.I will buy a ta05r tomorrow and get it ready for TCS 2008.
If they keep the lipos open to orion/peak packs,the safety level even with failures will be acceptable.What is not acceptable the many nickel metal hydride cells exploding for no good reason.These Lipos are a way better alternative.I use the 24800 platinum packs I own for racing sedan,Dirt oval and offroad.No issues.
If they keep the lipos open to orion/peak packs,the safety level even with failures will be acceptable.What is not acceptable the many nickel metal hydride cells exploding for no good reason.These Lipos are a way better alternative.I use the 24800 platinum packs I own for racing sedan,Dirt oval and offroad.No issues.
09-13-2007, 02:31 PM
#6575
Sounds like the track needs to do a better job of enforcement. At the Seattle, Fremont and Tamiya N/A regionals this year, I don't remember seeing any spec class drivers even running in a second class and the spec drivers who did run WHERE spec drivers.
Lipo's being new technology ? Maybe in an R/C car but I would not call 3+ year old technology new. Thank you to the plane and helicopter side of R/C for doing all the development work for us.
More classes for more chassis selections. Sounds good on paper, bad in practice. I used to race SCCA. I believe it is GT-4 and GT-5 classes that are being combined for next year due to lack of participation. There used to be an A, B and C production class. Now they are part of GT-1, GT-2 and GT-3. Again, little class participation. If someone who is a Novice level driver wants to run a TA05, go for it. Just expect to be in the C or D main. Whats wrong with that ? Sorry but I am one of those politically incorrect people that don't think you should create so many classes that eveyrbody gets to make the A and get a trophy becuase "we are all winners".
As for a carpet Nat's, time will tell. For all the East Coast guys that run asphalt 1-2 times a year, there are as many West Coast guys that run carpet 0-0 times a year. Then again as has been said over and over, carpet at the Japan Worlds is nothing like carpet here.
Lipo's being new technology ? Maybe in an R/C car but I would not call 3+ year old technology new. Thank you to the plane and helicopter side of R/C for doing all the development work for us.
More classes for more chassis selections. Sounds good on paper, bad in practice. I used to race SCCA. I believe it is GT-4 and GT-5 classes that are being combined for next year due to lack of participation. There used to be an A, B and C production class. Now they are part of GT-1, GT-2 and GT-3. Again, little class participation. If someone who is a Novice level driver wants to run a TA05, go for it. Just expect to be in the C or D main. Whats wrong with that ? Sorry but I am one of those politically incorrect people that don't think you should create so many classes that eveyrbody gets to make the A and get a trophy becuase "we are all winners".
As for a carpet Nat's, time will tell. For all the East Coast guys that run asphalt 1-2 times a year, there are as many West Coast guys that run carpet 0-0 times a year. Then again as has been said over and over, carpet at the Japan Worlds is nothing like carpet here.
all in jest people.. good discussion here.
09-13-2007, 02:33 PM
#6576
I am down for gt4.I will buy a ta05r tomorrow and get it ready for TCS 2008.
If they keep the lipos open to orion/peak packs,the safety level even with failures will be acceptable.What is not acceptable the many nickel metal hydride cells exploding for no good reason.These Lipos are a way better alternative.I use the 24800 platinum packs I own for racing sedan,Dirt oval and offroad.No issues.
If they keep the lipos open to orion/peak packs,the safety level even with failures will be acceptable.What is not acceptable the many nickel metal hydride cells exploding for no good reason.These Lipos are a way better alternative.I use the 24800 platinum packs I own for racing sedan,Dirt oval and offroad.No issues.
as ling would say... FAILURE!
09-13-2007, 03:08 PM
#6577
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What do you have against Lipos in the other classes? The initial investment is more than some would care to spend, but IMO it will be far cheaper in the long run. A 3200 Orion Lipo can be had for $79, and one would be all you need for mini or mabuchi classes.
Most guys I know buy 3-4 matched packs a year to build into sticks, which can easily be $200+. Last year I had two almost brand new 4200 packs go south on me after one weekend of racing. And let's count the number of EXPLOSIONS we've either witnessed or heard about with those 4200s. 
Most guys I know buy 3-4 matched packs a year to build into sticks, which can easily be $200+. Last year I had two almost brand new 4200 packs go south on me after one weekend of racing.
And let's count the number of EXPLOSIONS we've either witnessed or heard about with those 4200s. I have owned many 4200 including the blue and red cells, never a problem after almost 2 years of racing them. If they exploded either the charger is not doing its job or the racer is charging them at 12amps. They actually forced me to buy new chargers.
09-13-2007, 03:21 PM
#6578
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The Lipo debate can go on and on about how safe they are and how it would level the playing feild, but we all know that 100 people using lipo's trying to go fast instead of only a handful using them would change the amount of failures because of more people rushing and new inexperienced people using them.
5. A new class should be made for the true beginner/novice racer allowing any tub chasis and a silver can motor. (This should take the place of the spec class and still be limited to the 7.93 Final Drive gearing that spec is now).
I know I had to buy a TT01 for my son to race in the spec class when he would rather be driving his TA05.
5. A new class should be made for the true beginner/novice racer allowing any tub chasis and a silver can motor. (This should take the place of the spec class and still be limited to the 7.93 Final Drive gearing that spec is now).
I know I had to buy a TT01 for my son to race in the spec class when he would rather be driving his TA05.
Spec needs to be reclaimed as a true beginner, novice or inexperienced class. Open it up to more chassis, set the ratio and kick out point champions or past winners from the class.
09-13-2007, 03:22 PM
#6579
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so much for embracing new technology huh?
might be better if you did it like this...
GT1 Motors: 10.5 BL, or 19T brushed.
GT1 Batteries: any nimh or lipo
GT2 Motors: 13.5 BL or 27T brushed
GT2 Batteries: same as GT1
GT3 Motors: silver can
GT3 Batteries: same as GT1
Mini, F103GT Motors: silver can
Mini, F103GT Batteries: 3200 (since its the only thing that fits in a mini), any nimh.
OR as Fred's idea..... leave everything as it is now..and for those that want to dabble in BL/Lipo... run GT4.
TA05 + 13.5 BL + lipo.
might be better if you did it like this...
GT1 Motors: 10.5 BL, or 19T brushed.
GT1 Batteries: any nimh or lipo
GT2 Motors: 13.5 BL or 27T brushed
GT2 Batteries: same as GT1
GT3 Motors: silver can
GT3 Batteries: same as GT1
Mini, F103GT Motors: silver can
Mini, F103GT Batteries: 3200 (since its the only thing that fits in a mini), any nimh.
OR as Fred's idea..... leave everything as it is now..and for those that want to dabble in BL/Lipo... run GT4.
TA05 + 13.5 BL + lipo.
I think eventually classes will converge (like GT1 and GT2) and BL will be the key along with a battery you don't have to take care of. If changes were too abrupt I think many would lose interest including myself. I do think it was a good move to introduce Lipo into the F103GT. If they added a BL/Lipo sedan class in 2008, that would be another good move.
09-13-2007, 03:41 PM
#6580
Kevin CBR - I don't mind being in a C or D main, but for sportsman like myself, I would like to run against drivers who have a limited budget. I don't care what kind of car it is. If not Tamiya should not state that the TCS is a "low cost" program for "new or intermediate" R/C racers. If they provided a sportsman class it would help grow the whole series. As it exists right now many drivers are discouraged from competing because the money they have to pay to compete at a higher level. I don't care what batteries people want to run, but the higher the cost the fewer average drivers like myself will participate. Even in the Novak race at Trackside there's a sportsman class. I think there's a sportsman class in many races and series throughout the country. I think it would be great to see more young drivers who grow into TCS champions, but you have to open it up to more people, or make it an elite series. The TCS is a very good series, but it has room for participation.
09-13-2007, 03:43 PM
#6581
I think a lot of the uncertainty about Lipo is do to the fact that these same people are not educated or lack any real experience with them.They fear new tech or change.Just because your not ready to buy them is not a real reason to exclude them from use.I race in an area now that 1/2 the people racing are using Lipo.The other half standard batteries.How many failures amongst beginners/experts alike using Lipo in the last year? None.We also take precautions to insure safety.Lipo sacks are madatory.This is for the inevitable failure that will eventually come.How many failures from nickel metal hydride? Plenty.Not all of these were from abuse of the cell either.I just hate it when people have a weak argument when it comes to why Lipo should not be allowed when in reality the situation with safety is exactly the same.
I don't have anything against Lipos. It is just another expense that I am not into right now.
I have owned many 4200 including the blue and red cells, never a problem after almost 2 years of racing them. If they exploded either the charger is not doing its job or the racer is charging them at 12amps. They actually forced me to buy new chargers.
I have owned many 4200 including the blue and red cells, never a problem after almost 2 years of racing them. If they exploded either the charger is not doing its job or the racer is charging them at 12amps. They actually forced me to buy new chargers.
The Lipo debate can go on and on about how safe they are and how it would level the playing feild, but we all know that 100 people using lipo's trying to go fast instead of only a handful using them would change the amount of failures because of more people rushing and new inexperienced people using them. I don't think a track owner really wants to take a chance on a fire and injuries at their track because of more careless users of lipo's (everyone knows more people using lipos would bring on more carelessness and increase the odds of failures). I know people swear by the lipos but I think the Technology is still too new. And you know that as lipos get more mainstream the drivers with money will still find a way to get better lipos and the manufacturers will develop them and then you will still have a battery war.
09-13-2007, 04:07 PM
#6582
Come on guys, live a little...
GT-1= No Motor Limit! Someone has the stones to toss a 3.5 in their car, just warn the hobby shop ahead of time they they'll be selling a whole ton o' parts
Here's my ideal senerio:
GT-1: No motor limit, Li-Po legal
GT-2: 13.5 Motor, Li-Po Legal
GT-3: 17.5 Motor, Li-Po Legal
GT-4: Combine the current GT-3 class with the Spec class, limited experience, and you may not enter another sedan class if you enter GT-4
Mini- Open this up to the 17.5 motor and Li-Po
F-103- No change needed
GT-1= No Motor Limit! Someone has the stones to toss a 3.5 in their car, just warn the hobby shop ahead of time they they'll be selling a whole ton o' parts
Here's my ideal senerio:
GT-1: No motor limit, Li-Po legal
GT-2: 13.5 Motor, Li-Po Legal
GT-3: 17.5 Motor, Li-Po Legal
GT-4: Combine the current GT-3 class with the Spec class, limited experience, and you may not enter another sedan class if you enter GT-4
Mini- Open this up to the 17.5 motor and Li-Po
F-103- No change needed
09-13-2007, 04:08 PM
#6583
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I was thinking about the classes a little at the Nats.
Why not have GT1 - GT5 (SCCA I think still does all 5)
With these classes you can only do 2 at any race (except the nats).
GT1 could be the Lipo/BL
GT2 could be 19t no lipo
GT3 could be 27t no lipo
GT4 could be mabuchi no lipo
GT5 mini no lipo
In addition offer Exhibition Classes
F103GT, GT01, TT Rally, Rally and anything else the host track decides.
To stimulate growth you can run any number of these classes plus the two limit GT classes. Although you will still be responsible for marshalling duties, subs and getting to the line ontime. Most cases the host track will not wait.
Spec should still be offered with more strict rules like 1 A-main win in any class you are out of it. We need something to attract new racers. Some guys that race/raced spec really had no business in it.
I would not go too overboard with alignment with Japan on a regional level, Nationals level I don't really care. I like the differences between regionals/Nats and don't think alignment with Japan would hurt it. Really it only effects 3 racers a year. Although if the indicator is the Nats will be at carpeted Trackside... then that could be interesting.
Why not have GT1 - GT5 (SCCA I think still does all 5)
With these classes you can only do 2 at any race (except the nats).
GT1 could be the Lipo/BL
GT2 could be 19t no lipo
GT3 could be 27t no lipo
GT4 could be mabuchi no lipo
GT5 mini no lipo
In addition offer Exhibition Classes
F103GT, GT01, TT Rally, Rally and anything else the host track decides.
To stimulate growth you can run any number of these classes plus the two limit GT classes. Although you will still be responsible for marshalling duties, subs and getting to the line ontime. Most cases the host track will not wait.
Spec should still be offered with more strict rules like 1 A-main win in any class you are out of it. We need something to attract new racers. Some guys that race/raced spec really had no business in it.
I would not go too overboard with alignment with Japan on a regional level, Nationals level I don't really care. I like the differences between regionals/Nats and don't think alignment with Japan would hurt it. Really it only effects 3 racers a year. Although if the indicator is the Nats will be at carpeted Trackside... then that could be interesting.
09-13-2007, 04:15 PM
#6584
With TCS Nats less than a month before IIC it is going to be tough for Scotty to host the race.......
As for LiPo costing too much that is just getting old. Jeff you even proved it by stating you had to buy new chargers for your 4200's. If you bought without the thought of LiPo shame on you. That said 1 extra charger and LiPo is not ending a racing budget. You spend more than that yearly to maintain a TA05 and if you don't then don't expect to make the A at Nats.....
Batteries good vltg ones are a once a quarter expense. Especially with the 4200's you can say all you want that your batteries are just as good. It is all BS Fresh cells for a big race is a must have period. If that race is a Regional or whatever you have to do it.
As for cost controlled yes the TCS series is a cost controlled series. If they went to a spec tire it would do that job even further. but then you all would complain that you don't have choices etc.
When it comes to GT3 there seems to be alot of short memories or just plain ignorance. We were running a Silvercan class to great numbers @ Burien Toyota along with Maryland I think it was (an East Coast track) getting also a huge turnout. Fred recognised the demand to have a Sedan class taht had close racing without a ton or Money spent. That was it noone said it was an entry level class. It was close racing. Since then people have come to the series and put their thoughts on the class. Entry-level, Noob, non motor tweeker, idiots to run a motor that slow, fill in the blanks. It was always a DRIVER class. Give everyone low HP and let'em sort it out on the track. Much like the old FWD class that was extremely popular and was sorely missed when it was dropped. Heck with a Silvercan Mini should be a Newb class right?
For those that don't know me I have been racing the series for 9 years now along with being a Past Champion. The TCS series is a great series and has grown under Fred. Most who don;t like the rules are the ones who have not put the time in to win a NAtional Championship period. The year I won I travelled at my expense to 5 regionals. I built 5 cars in total and had 2 complete chassis for Nats Week along with a FWD car for backup if conditions favored it. Go ahead and someone say it I bought a Championship. BS My wife that year about put me into bankruptcy. I used the kits I won at TCS to pay for the year along with help from my fellow club racers. I used every resource I had to me. I did not whine about how unfair the rules were I looked at where I could use them to my advantage. the year I won Fred took my preferred chassis away as it was well and truly too fast to the then M03's.
Sorry for the rant but get or the yer butt and do the work to win a Championship. It is not won by buying a plane ticket. One of last years winning cars took 2-3 weeks to build. Every component was weighed and looked at. No part ever went onto the car without knowing how much it helped/hurt performance. Alot of parts were omitted as the rules allowed. The car had so much ballast to get to min weight it was a laugh factory.
Now how many of you can say you put that time in for '07?
As for LiPo costing too much that is just getting old. Jeff you even proved it by stating you had to buy new chargers for your 4200's. If you bought without the thought of LiPo shame on you. That said 1 extra charger and LiPo is not ending a racing budget. You spend more than that yearly to maintain a TA05 and if you don't then don't expect to make the A at Nats.....
Batteries good vltg ones are a once a quarter expense. Especially with the 4200's you can say all you want that your batteries are just as good. It is all BS Fresh cells for a big race is a must have period. If that race is a Regional or whatever you have to do it.
As for cost controlled yes the TCS series is a cost controlled series. If they went to a spec tire it would do that job even further. but then you all would complain that you don't have choices etc.
When it comes to GT3 there seems to be alot of short memories or just plain ignorance. We were running a Silvercan class to great numbers @ Burien Toyota along with Maryland I think it was (an East Coast track) getting also a huge turnout. Fred recognised the demand to have a Sedan class taht had close racing without a ton or Money spent. That was it noone said it was an entry level class. It was close racing. Since then people have come to the series and put their thoughts on the class. Entry-level, Noob, non motor tweeker, idiots to run a motor that slow, fill in the blanks. It was always a DRIVER class. Give everyone low HP and let'em sort it out on the track. Much like the old FWD class that was extremely popular and was sorely missed when it was dropped. Heck with a Silvercan Mini should be a Newb class right?
For those that don't know me I have been racing the series for 9 years now along with being a Past Champion. The TCS series is a great series and has grown under Fred. Most who don;t like the rules are the ones who have not put the time in to win a NAtional Championship period. The year I won I travelled at my expense to 5 regionals. I built 5 cars in total and had 2 complete chassis for Nats Week along with a FWD car for backup if conditions favored it. Go ahead and someone say it I bought a Championship. BS My wife that year about put me into bankruptcy. I used the kits I won at TCS to pay for the year along with help from my fellow club racers. I used every resource I had to me. I did not whine about how unfair the rules were I looked at where I could use them to my advantage. the year I won Fred took my preferred chassis away as it was well and truly too fast to the then M03's.
Sorry for the rant but get or the yer butt and do the work to win a Championship. It is not won by buying a plane ticket. One of last years winning cars took 2-3 weeks to build. Every component was weighed and looked at. No part ever went onto the car without knowing how much it helped/hurt performance. Alot of parts were omitted as the rules allowed. The car had so much ballast to get to min weight it was a laugh factory.
Now how many of you can say you put that time in for '07?
09-13-2007, 04:19 PM
#6585
BTW--racenut you are spot on. That said I would still take a NiMH cell anyday for it's vltg. Yes it is gonna cost more but the battery is still faster. Now if we change the raceclock..........
LiPo safety is just that safe if YOU the consumer have the equipment and knowledge. My 600 Helis is running 6S 5000mah packs and my 450 is running 3S 2150mah packs way more capacity and Voltage than any Sedan pack.....
LiPo safety is just that safe if YOU the consumer have the equipment and knowledge. My 600 Helis is running 6S 5000mah packs and my 450 is running 3S 2150mah packs way more capacity and Voltage than any Sedan pack.....
