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Old 09-12-2007, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hebiki
TA05 + 13.5 = GT4. at least thats what i remember Fred saying last, last time i talked to him at the tamiya track.

not lipos... but TEAM ORION lipos.. since they're in a hard case, which makes them safer. that'd definitely be nice to have lipos in all classes
Actually he did refer to it on here as Formula GT , but he could have changed it since then. I am sure it will go through many revisions before it becomes a class. The two classes I am wondering about are 103GT and the GT01 class. I was lucky enough to take home a Ferrari 288 GTO from the nats raffle, and would like to race it. We had a good turnout for 103 at the nats, but with no new bodies or parts coming anytime soon, it kills me to say that that is all she wrote. I sure hope not, but there is not alot of evidence pointing to it coming back next year.
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Old 09-12-2007, 07:41 PM
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Hey folks:

Any of you who were planning on coming to the Mini Mayhem race, I really need to know NOW if you plan on coming - we have very few entries in so far, quite frankly, not enough to make it a go.

Please PM me or post on the mini mayhem thread ASAP if you are coming.
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Old 09-12-2007, 07:46 PM
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Fred had a chance to run my TA05 this last weekend at Tamiya with Novak 13.5 Brushless and Orion 4800 LIPO. After the run, he was very impressed with the combination and mentioned something about GT-4 as he walked off the drives stand smiling.

Bottom line is Fred is aware of the new technoligies, racing costs, fun factor, etc. and is probably one of our best allies to keep the TCS running strong and not affraid to experiment. Maybe because he loves racing so much.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:01 AM
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I was thinking about the classes a little at the Nats.

Why not have GT1 - GT5 (SCCA I think still does all 5)
With these classes you can only do 2 at any race (except the nats).
GT1 could be the Lipo/BL
GT2 could be 19t no lipo
GT3 could be 27t no lipo
GT4 could be mabuchi no lipo
GT5 mini no lipo

In addition offer Exhibition Classes
F103GT, GT01, TT Rally, Rally and anything else the host track decides.
To stimulate growth you can run any number of these classes plus the two limit GT classes. Although you will still be responsible for marshalling duties, subs and getting to the line ontime. Most cases the host track will not wait.

Spec should still be offered with more strict rules like 1 A-main win in any class you are out of it. We need something to attract new racers. Some guys that race/raced spec really had no business in it.

I would not go too overboard with alignment with Japan on a regional level, Nationals level I don't really care. I like the differences between regionals/Nats and don't think alignment with Japan would hurt it. Really it only effects 3 racers a year. Although if the indicator is the Nats will be at carpeted Trackside... then that could be interesting.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
I was thinking about the classes a little at the Nats.

Why not have GT1 - GT5 (SCCA I think still does all 5)
With these classes you can only do 2 at any race (except the nats).
GT1 could be the Lipo/BL
GT2 could be 19t no lipo
GT3 could be 27t no lipo
GT4 could be mabuchi no lipo
GT5 mini no lipo
What do you have against Lipos in the other classes? The initial investment is more than some would care to spend, but IMO it will be far cheaper in the long run. A 3200 Orion Lipo can be had for $79, and one would be all you need for mini or mabuchi classes.

Most guys I know buy 3-4 matched packs a year to build into sticks, which can easily be $200+. Last year I had two almost brand new 4200 packs go south on me after one weekend of racing. And let's count the number of EXPLOSIONS we've either witnessed or heard about with those 4200s.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:19 AM
  #6561  
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I have raced in the Tamiya series since 2005, which makes me a relative rookie. I enjoy the racing in the TCS. In the introductry paragraph of Tamiya's TCS page it calls the series "low cost/high excitement series." They put those words in bold print. They also use the words "new or intermdiate r/c racer." It's been my observation that there are not many of the new or intermediate drivers at the races. Those whoo are there quickly realize that they haven't spent the time or money to compete with most of the TCS veterans. In most of the classes the majority of drivers are highly skilled drivers who have spent a great deal of time and money on their cars, equipment, batteries, etc. There is no class where a sportsman level driver can really compete. I think GT3 is supposed to be that class, but it's obvious that people in GT3 have spent many hours preparing their motors. There may even be a few cheaters. I will still particpate, but to attract more drivers I believe Tamiya needs to have sportsman classes. Spec Class is supposed to be a novice class, but that's not enforced. Obviously, Mini's are the most popular cars. That's an example where a sportsman class would be very popular. They are inexpensive and you can buy an inexpensive stick pack and you're ready to go. It's been my experience that when working with young drivers and sportsman drivers you keep them involved by having a class where they can compete. They can then move up to a more competitive class when they want or they can stay at a sportsman level and still compete. I think that a sportsman class would put a limit on costs in some way. There is room for everyone in the TCS. It would be great to see even more people at a Tamiya race. Since, the novice description doesn't fit some of the drivers in Spec Class, may be it should be opened up. It could be a class where you have a Tamiya car, body, tires, etc you could run. Have a hand out motor siver can, black can, etc. Put a battery limit on the cars and let them race. I don't know, but the series needs to be tweaked to attract more dirvers, so that when you go into your local hobby shop you don't have order Tamiya parts. When you have more paticipation you grow the series. It's motivation for myself to see all the great drivers in the TCS.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:13 AM
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The Lipo debate can go on and on about how safe they are and how it would level the playing feild, but we all know that 100 people using lipo's trying to go fast instead of only a handful using them would change the amount of failures because of more people rushing and new inexperienced people using them. I don't think a track owner really wants to take a chance on a fire and injuries at their track because of more careless users of lipo's (everyone knows more people using lipos would bring on more carelessness and increase the odds of failures). I know people swear by the lipos but I think the Technology is still too new. And you know that as lipos get more mainstream the drivers with money will still find a way to get better lipos and the manufacturers will develop them and then you will still have a battery war.

Spec is a good class for the Novice driver but the reason that there is not enought drivers usually at a regional event are many.
1. The Chasis is limited to a TT01 or TL01(a newbie buying one of those chasis doesn't know about the TCS and usually does not race).
2. A novice driver who races uses another more race worthy chasis (TA05, TB02, or TA04) and doesn't want to buy a new chasis just to race in the spec class once a year.
3. GT3 was supposed to be more of a Novice class with Spec being a beginner class, but many of the better racers like the spec like class of GT3 and spend a ton of money to race in it and that turns the novice off when they see these drivers running times close to GT2 and they are running times closer to the spec drivers.
4. GT3 should be a spec class for the better racers and it should be used with the black can motor.
5. A new class should be made for the true beginner/novice racer allowing any tub chasis and a silver can motor. (This should take the place of the spec class and still be limited to the 7.93 Final Drive gearing that spec is now).

I know I had to buy a TT01 for my son to race in the spec class when he would rather be driving his TA05.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by f1larry
Spec is a good class for the Novice driver but the reason that there is not enought drivers usually at a regional event are many.
1. The Chasis is limited to a TT01 or TL01(a newbie buying one of those chasis doesn't know about the TCS and usually does not race).
2. A novice driver who races uses another more race worthy chasis (TA05, TB02, or TA04) and doesn't want to buy a new chasis just to race in the spec class once a year.
3. GT3 was supposed to be more of a Novice class with Spec being a beginner class, but many of the better racers like the spec like class of GT3 and spend a ton of money to race in it and that turns the novice off when they see these drivers running times close to GT2 and they are running times closer to the spec drivers.
4. GT3 should be a spec class for the better racers and it should be used with the black can motor.
5. A new class should be made for the true beginner/novice racer allowing any tub chasis and a silver can motor. (This should take the place of the spec class and still be limited to the 7.93 Final Drive gearing that spec is now).

I know I had to buy a TT01 for my son to race in the spec class when he would rather be driving his TA05.
I agree with most of that. My 12 year old son was definitely discouraged in spec class at Trackside in March when he was getting spanked by "spec" drivers that made the A main in Mini and the B main in GT2. That ain't right.

I don't think we need a new spec class, just enforce the beginner aspect of spec class, and maybe open it up to more chassis'.

Can't wait till 2008 TCS.

Last edited by Hawk6; 09-13-2007 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by f1larry
3. GT3 was supposed to be more of a Novice class with Spec being a beginner class, but many of the better racers like the spec like class of GT3 and spend a ton of money to race in it and that turns the novice off when they see these drivers running times close to GT2 and they are running times closer to the spec drivers.
I strongly disagree with this statement. GT3 was NEVER setup as a beginner class and frankly it is one of, if not the most difficult class to go fast in. The motors are garbage, overheat if you are off in the slightest in gearing, and if you make one mistake often times you're done.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:52 AM
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I was going to ask Fred about TCS 2008 last night, but he shot me in the head and muted off his mic. Oops...
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
I strongly disagree with this statement. GT3 was NEVER setup as a beginner class and frankly it is one of, if not the most difficult class to go fast in. The motors are garbage, overheat if you are off in the slightest in gearing, and if you make one mistake often times you're done.
I never said GT3 was supposed to be a beginner class, I did say more of a Novice class. I did misspeak on that, GT3 was supposed to be more of a gradual step up to a more intermediate class as a driver become more adept at chais tuning

See rules
The GT-3 class is perfect for those drivers graduating from the Spec Novice class and for those racers wanting to race in a spec horsepower formula. Chassis tuning and driving skill make for close door-to-door racing against skilled and intermediate drivers.

The more skilled drivers turned it into a very competitive spec class for skilled drivers which I feel (in my opinion) was not the original intention of the class. Don't get me wrong I think it is a great class but I feel there needs to be class for more of the Novice/Sportsman that is open to more chasis's and not just the TT01 and TL01 (that is a big espense for a novice racer to have two chasis's-1 they race at club races in the sportsman class and one to race once a year in the spec class at a TCS race). Allowing hopups in the spec class with a fixed gearing is not going to make a beginner/novice/sportsman driver faster. the only thing they might be faster at is spending money. I think if you open the chasis selection up in spec you might see some more new faces get involved in racing.

If your in a hobby shop that sells Tamiya cars the person behind the counter will steer you in the direction of a TA05 over a TT01 because it is more tuneable and is closer to a race chasis if one wanted to start racing.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
I was thinking about the classes a little at the Nats.

Although if the indicator is the Nats will be at carpeted Trackside... then that could be interesting.
Trackside? I thought Doug had Fred talked into SIR.

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Old 09-13-2007, 08:26 AM
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Trackside would be a perfect place to host the TCS Nats.

1. A top notch facility
2. The best race director in the world!!!
3 More centrally located, easier to get to from the East Coast and West coast. (probably would be one of the Highest attended TCS Nats)
4. On Carpet which is what they race on in Japan.

No nock on SIR I understand it is a great facility and they just put Carpet in (I hope to get there soon for a TCS Race) but geographically Trackside makes sense.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
I was thinking about the classes a little at the Nats.

Why not have GT1 - GT5 (SCCA I think still does all 5)
With these classes you can only do 2 at any race (except the nats).
GT1 could be the Lipo/BL
GT2 could be 19t no lipo
GT3 could be 27t no lipo
GT4 could be mabuchi no lipo
GT5 mini no lipo

In addition offer Exhibition Classes
F103GT, GT01, TT Rally, Rally and anything else the host track decides.
To stimulate growth you can run any number of these classes plus the two limit GT classes. Although you will still be responsible for marshalling duties, subs and getting to the line ontime. Most cases the host track will not wait.

Spec should still be offered with more strict rules like 1 A-main win in any class you are out of it. We need something to attract new racers. Some guys that race/raced spec really had no business in it.

I would not go too overboard with alignment with Japan on a regional level, Nationals level I don't really care. I like the differences between regionals/Nats and don't think alignment with Japan would hurt it. Really it only effects 3 racers a year. Although if the indicator is the Nats will be at carpeted Trackside... then that could be interesting.
so much for embracing new technology huh?

might be better if you did it like this...

GT1 Motors: 10.5 BL, or 19T brushed.
GT1 Batteries: any nimh or lipo

GT2 Motors: 13.5 BL or 27T brushed
GT2 Batteries: same as GT1

GT3 Motors: silver can
GT3 Batteries: same as GT1

Mini, F103GT Motors: silver can
Mini, F103GT Batteries: 3200 (since its the only thing that fits in a mini), any nimh.

OR as Fred's idea..... leave everything as it is now..and for those that want to dabble in BL/Lipo... run GT4. TA05 + 13.5 BL + lipo.

Last edited by Hebiki; 09-13-2007 at 09:24 AM. Reason: added a suggestion.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by f1larry
Trackside would be a perfect place to host the TCS Nats.

1. A top notch facility
2. The best race director in the world!!!
3 More centrally located, easier to get to from the East Coast and West coast. (probably would be one of the Highest attended TCS Nats)
4. On Carpet which is what they race on in Japan.

No nock on SIR I understand it is a great facility and they just put Carpet in (I hope to get there soon for a TCS Race) but geographically Trackside makes sense.
wow... talk about not listening to what our past champs have stated. the carpet at worlds is NOTHING like the carpet at trackside.
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