Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Racing Forum
Tamiya Championship Series >

Tamiya Championship Series

Like Tree805Likes

Tamiya Championship Series

Old 08-26-2006, 01:05 PM
  #3961  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (129)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,656
Trader Rating: 129 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by izzyracer
FM, Since when did TCS became so complex? Stay with the basics, keep everything tamiya, spec it to the max and let the driving do the talking. Let it stay for amateurs. You want to mix up pros, manufacturers, owners, make a class for them. Maybe this is one reason why we can't get a win at JP because we get so used to all this tecnicalities we panic when we find out your running a 2400 stick pack at the worlds. Did any of you get the KO Propo DVD for Free?
I have a several thoughts on the worlds on why the NA drivers usually don't do as well as one might think.
1) Qualifying is a single fast lap and each season is cut throat - 15-20car on the track at once. Most people have never done this and it takes some doing to get it right.
2) The NA drivers only get to attend the worlds once and then are not eligible. I placed 3rd in Mini, turned fastest laps of the event (eventually 0.2sec quicker than TQ), and got beat by two guys who were making their 3rd and 5th world's showing. I know with a second attempt, it would be game over. Probably the same for others that attended over the years.
3) It is held on brand new carpet. Most of the winners over the years have come from Cali and the west coats and are used to running on asphalt only. Totally different approach to racing. I happen to get lucky running the Tamiya track (first time racing TCS on asphalt) for the first time and winning.
4) Amount of practice time on the track. The worlds are run on new carpet that has no grip for 2-3 sessions. There is very limited practice to get the set up right. Some people hit it and others take a little longer. I finally got it right in the 2nd of three mains. The Tamiya USA track can be practiced on all the time before hand and I know most of the class winners spent many hours before the Nats (I practiced for 3 days before hand).
5) Batteries. This has changed, but the batteries I finally found that work, were purchased the night before the race. My competitors I am sure had sorted through numerous packs to find the best ones. Tamiya America could have done this for their drivers and we all would have gone faster.
6) The races are announced in Japanese. I was actually leading one of the mains and didn't know it. I made I mistake will I thought I was passing a slower car and let him back around. That turned out to be the leader. Had I known, I would have approached it differently. With 15-20 cars on the track, it is hard to tell who is a given position.
7) Finally, competition. Some of the best drivers in the world are in attendance. In 2001, the year I attended, Marc Reinhard was also there representing Europe, and only finished third in his class. Now that is pretty stiff, considering he became a world champion driving a Tamiya. Of all the 20 drivers from outside of Japan, only 4 of us got a spot on the podium with 2nd place being the best from the F103LM and Rally drivers. Two of those podium spots came from rally, which was a new class that year and thus the Japanese were also competiting in it for the first time.
ewippler is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:08 PM
  #3962  
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
 
Leester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Wrong Planet
Posts: 1,062
Trader Rating: 23 (96%+)
Default

Originally Posted by RCGaryK
.

Classes for next season:
GT1- Open Modified, any tire, any body, LiPo's legal. This could help reduce costs in some senses by allowing people to run BRUSHLESS!

Gary when you mean any tire do you mena sorex's and take off's?

-Lee
Leester is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:36 PM
  #3963  
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
 
Leester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Wrong Planet
Posts: 1,062
Trader Rating: 23 (96%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ewippler
3) It is held on brand new carpet. Most of the winners over the years have come from Cali and the west coats and are used to running on asphalt only. Totally different approach to racing. I happen to get lucky running the Tamiya track (first time racing TCS on asphalt) for the first time and winning.
yeah that is kinda sad that the guys from the midwest like wisconsin do very well on carpet but whne they get to Cali they don't do very well and they don't make it to japan. I would really like to see what a guy from Wisconsin would do in Japan. They would do very well cause they run on carpet all year round and all of their racing series and tournaments are based on carpet

Originally Posted by ewippler
4) Amount of practice time on the track. The worlds are run on new carpet that has no grip for 2-3 sessions. There is very limited practice to get the set up right. Some people hit it and others take a little longer. I finally got it right in the 2nd of three mains. The Tamiya USA track can be practiced on all the time before hand and I know most of the class winners spent many hours before the Nats (I practiced for 3 days before hand).
Well we Wisconsinites and Illinoisans have have raced on a simular situation. At the IIC race in vegas last year we practiced on brand new carpet that had no grip for at least 2-3 sessions and it was held at a place where you can not practice on, and only once a year which was the stardust. however we were allowed to use traction compound and it was on CRC carpet. but still it was just the same traction situation as the Tamiya World Championship. not in the a mains but in the beginning of the event yes.

that's my .02 cents why people form Wisconsin, Illinois or any anyone in the midwest who runs on carpet would do better.

-Lee
Leester is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:39 PM
  #3964  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (8)
 
414MPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 989
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

All this recap of the 2006 TCS Nationals has finally prompted me to register on R/C Tech. So, Here goes:

1st, FRED and TAMIYA AMERICA, Best ever! For those of you have not been to as many Nats as I have, you have no idea how great this years event was. For the many that have, you know what I'm talking about.

Fred took a very large field and ran a steady, fair exciting show. To give additional credit where credit is due, thanks to all the Tamiya crew and others who stepped in to help with tech, impound and announcing for making this a very well run event resulting in a pleasent fun filled two days of racing.

2nd, Thanks to all the competitors who addapted to the new formats and rules and made this the best R/C racing event and reunion in ther counrty. It is allways good to see and visit with so many friendly faces and re-live duels from the past. Sportsmanship and just plain decent people are what make this a must attend race.

3rd, I must thank the resorted GT-1 'C' qualifying group for some of the most courtious driving I have ever seen. All ten of us worked together and demonstrated how a qualifyer shound be run. Whithout all your help there was no way I could have put in the two runs I did to make the A main. (special thanks to Christian and Bill)

4th, SPEC EQUIPMENT/ RULES. In 2002 we tried the spec tire, limited quantity for GT's. It resulted in a whole lot of man hours for inspection, policing and teching (read Tamiya payroll). I don't think it much mattered in the long run. As far as costs, R/C racers have a personal budget to work with. They spend where they see fit. If it isn't tires, it's bodies, titainium, anodized aluminum, ceramic bearings, etc. Please remember and consider, Tamiya provides this opportunity to promote the sport and sell product in the long run. This is the NATIONALS. If you want to run with and be the big dog, you gotta lift your le high. Point being, If you don't spend it on tires, you spend it on other stuff.

The various Tamiya 23 turn motors have served the Nationas well for 4 years now. It is a good, strong motor. I would like to see the GT-1 class regionals addapt the Tamiya 23 turn motor. You can either purchase a new 19 turn or 23 turn for the event. I think the 23 is more durable and it does support Tamiya.

We all make choices. My choice, A bone stock (other than springs) 414M purchased new in 2001 for $300 on Three run old B3's. That's what it took to get you in the GT-1 A main.

I personally don't think the qualifying format should or needs to be changed for Nationals. 2 ifmars, resort and 2 additional ifmars is about as good as it gets for fairness and proper placement for the mains in an R/C event. I also liked the point ranking for each qual round. I'm sure a few racers may have come up short from where they could have qualified, but we have to accept that this is about as fair as it gets. I don't recall any multiple car qualifying crashes that dashhed anyones chances. I think everyone would agree that all racers that made the 'A' mains deserved the spot.

In summary, Thanks to Fred, crew, Tamiya America, all the competitors and the weather man for making 2006 Nationals the best ever.

Sorry to be so long but I've been holding in for a while, and, Happy 24th Birthday Jeff!

Marty
414MPH is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:50 PM
  #3965  
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
 
Leester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Wrong Planet
Posts: 1,062
Trader Rating: 23 (96%+)
Default

Originally Posted by 414MPH
All this recap of the 2006 TCS Nationals has finally prompted me to register on R/C Tech. So, Here goes:

1st, FRED and TAMIYA AMERICA, Best ever! For those of you have not been to as many Nats as I have, you have no idea how great this years event was. For the many that have, you know what I'm talking about.

Fred took a very large field and ran a steady, fair exciting show. To give additional credit where credit is due, thanks to all the Tamiya crew and others who stepped in to help with tech, impound and announcing for making this a very well run event resulting in a pleasent fun filled two days of racing.

2nd, Thanks to all the competitors who addapted to the new formats and rules and made this the best R/C racing event and reunion in ther counrty. It is allways good to see and visit with so many friendly faces and re-live duels from the past. Sportsmanship and just plain decent people are what make this a must attend race.

3rd, I must thank the resorted GT-1 'C' qualifying group for some of the most courtious driving I have ever seen. All ten of us worked together and demonstrated how a qualifyer shound be run. Whithout all your help there was no way I could have put in the two runs I did to make the A main. (special thanks to Christian and Bill)

4th, SPEC EQUIPMENT/ RULES. In 2002 we tried the spec tire, limited quantity for GT's. It resulted in a whole lot of man hours for inspection, policing and teching (read Tamiya payroll). I don't think it much mattered in the long run. As far as costs, R/C racers have a personal budget to work with. They spend where they see fit. If it isn't tires, it's bodies, titainium, anodized aluminum, ceramic bearings, etc. Please remember and consider, Tamiya provides this opportunity to promote the sport and sell product in the long run. This is the NATIONALS. If you want to run with and be the big dog, you gotta lift your le high. Point being, If you don't spend it on tires, you spend it on other stuff.

The various Tamiya 23 turn motors have served the Nationas well for 4 years now. It is a good, strong motor. I would like to see the GT-1 class regionals addapt the Tamiya 23 turn motor. You can either purchase a new 19 turn or 23 turn for the event. I think the 23 is more durable and it does support Tamiya.

We all make choices. My choice, A bone stock (other than springs) 414M purchased new in 2001 for $300 on Three run old B3's. That's what it took to get you in the GT-1 A main.

I personally don't think the qualifying format should or needs to be changed for Nationals. 2 ifmars, resort and 2 additional ifmars is about as good as it gets for fairness and proper placement for the mains in an R/C event. I also liked the point ranking for each qual round. I'm sure a few racers may have come up short from where they could have qualified, but we have to accept that this is about as fair as it gets. I don't recall any multiple car qualifying crashes that dashhed anyones chances. I think everyone would agree that all racers that made the 'A' mains deserved the spot.

In summary, Thanks to Fred, crew, Tamiya America, all the competitors and the weather man for making 2006 Nationals the best ever.

Sorry to be so long but I've been holding in for a while, and, Happy 24th Birthday Jeff!

Marty
Wow!.... He's breaks his silence! How's it going marty! you did pretty good this year! Thanks for posting!
Leester is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 02:50 PM
  #3966  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Leester
Gary when you mean any tire do you mena sorex's and take off's?

-Lee
No lee, Tamiya only.

And the reason why those used to carpet don't tend to win has little to do with asphalt experience...

Just making the A-Main is very tough, let alone making the podium. The competition is just so very tough.
RCGaryK is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:03 PM
  #3967  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (24)
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,324
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Hi Marty , fooka mi says hi as well.
I like Garys idea for qualifying, you could even limit the laps to ten per session, and have an alarm written into the software , so when you are done with your alotted laps the announcer would call you off the track to allow room for other drivers. I think a system such as this would add to the event and make it more exciting for the spectators. I have never liked IFMAR, and to me its old and antiquated, yes everyone gets a fair shot, but there is no way to gauge where you are in relation to the leader Alot of people claim this doesnt matter, but it does because it lets you know how hard you have to push to be on par with the leaders. Most of the time they only call the first and second place guys, so the backfield has no clue where they are or what pace they are on. Heads up is not necessarily the answer either because of the afforementioned issues. I have said all along that I realize there is a cost associated with doing this event, and its nice to hear that at least one person made the A not using 1 run tires, but I still believe that there needs to be some sort of restraint exercised in this area. The idea that you could spend under $100 for motors and batteries for GT2 to me is awsome. If I am able to attend next year, I will definitely be running GT2, unless 103GT is a class or there is a new F1 chassis to race, even still those would probably have a similar deal. I think Tamiya could help the tire situation by bringing the cost inline with some of the premount tires. I have estimated that a full set of Tamiya tires cost $52.00 a set to mount on the car, whereas a set of 4 RP30's or CS27's are around $30.00. you are talking almost double and you still have to mount them up. Maybe there is not a ton of difference between 1 and 2 run tires, but there is still a big expense for tires, several hundreds of dollars. I used to throw money at stuff good after bad, but from here on out I will be trying to run my racing program as smartly and as inexpensively as possible.
BP SHADOW is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:28 PM
  #3968  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Brad, Brad, Brad, Brad, Brad....


TAMIYA SERIES! TAMIYA TIRES!!!!! No E'ffing Sorex/Take Off/RP E'ffing tires!!!!
RCGaryK is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:45 PM
  #3969  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (24)
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,324
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Gary,
Did you actually read my post? I said that Tamiya should bring the cost of their tires in line with the cost of "those other tires" I was in no way suggesting that they should switch to another brand. Sorry if you misread it, but that is what I meant
BP SHADOW is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 09:55 PM
  #3970  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (11)
 
C_O_jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wa.
Posts: 9,055
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

This years champs will have a good shot at the Tamiya worlds.
Keith Yu runs on carpet a LOT! Iv'e seen him dicing it out with factory sponsored drivers at Rain City and in Canada, he's always in it.
Mark spent time at Rain City also, and he is another fast guy on the rug too!
Troy stopped by Rain City today checking it out again too, rubbed his fingers on it, smelled it, and has raced on it before too. You can bet he will be spending a lot of time on it.
These guys will do,great.

Fred Forg
C_O_jones is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:00 PM
  #3971  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (107)
 
lbckevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,731
Trader Rating: 107 (99%+)
Default

I think the Nationals were run the best this year. Very smooth and on time down to the minute....Never seen a race run on a time schedule and stick to it. I had my racer handout paper with all the times and my heat started exactly as stated. I have not attended any other race that could do that.

This is a Tamiya series and rightfully so....we use Tamiya tires, batteries, motors and chassis.

IFMAR should stay.....Very equal for all drivers....A pre sort before the race would be nice. I put in a great run even thought I had to lap some guys 4-5 times....Ask Kevin CBR...he did the same as well. It was a challenge, but worth it in the end. I think heads up will have poor results and numerous pileups, just like the A mains in Gt2.....

Spec batteries were great, and kept cost down. Tamiya should use them in all classes at Regionals and Nationals.

Tamiya tires were great for a run. But maybe introducing a 4 set of tires rule would cut cost. Either way, you need good tires to run good times.

The motor rules were the only point of argument amongst drivers. We were told the limit was 1.9 amps @ 2volts and late Friday, the rules changed to accomodate the few. Many racers tested their motors to conform to the old rule and were SOL for the racing when the rules went up to 2.3. Using the 1.9 rule , meant driver just ran the motors with no voodoo to them, just break it in polish some things and run. When the rule changed, many drivers were unprepared to try and bring up the amps and it showed, especially mine . If we are to run black cans next year, run them as they come with no special voodoo done to them, no rule changes last minute.

Any Motor will be fine as long as things remain the same for everyone. It would be nice to be able to cut a comm in GT2.

The Tamiya body rule was cool. Check out the mains in GT2: all different kinds, I think this rule was what Fred imagined....diversity.

Minis should all run together ........Maybe they should run the same 20 tooth pinion and thats it. That was some great driving in MINI.

Good luck to all next year ......
lbckevin is offline  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:28 PM
  #3972  
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West of Crook County Illinois
Posts: 1,979
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by RCGaryK
4 15-Minute qualifying sessions... I know, just stay with me...

3 on Saturday, 1 on Sunday....

In that 15-MInute session, ANYONE in that class may go out and turn laps...

Your top ten laptimes in that session are combined to determine your qualifying position....OR your best cumulative 3-minutes...or 3 consecutive minutes....

No limit on the number of car's on the track at one time...
Actually when I was speaking with Fred last weekend this type of format was on my brain. A little more complicated than my previous post. Gary you just got me thinking about it again trying to make it work in my head.

I was thinking about each racer has a 20 laps and something like a 1/2 hour rotation per class. Maybe each class would get 3 or 4 rotations.

All the Chumps would of course would be racing each round.

Take the best 10 laps from a finished 20 lap run (the laps could be changed depending on entries to either allow more or less for a finished run). Like you said you would go out when you deem fit and focus on running fast laps. So car placement on the track, quality laps and traffic would be important. You probably would also want the times broadcast live trackside. I was also thinking about only 10 drivers at a time. So if drivers use up their 20 lap clock in the 1st run then they are done for qualifying and cannot go back out. So strategy could be traffic, time of day and maybe a pace partner. In essence this is like IFMAR but with a focus on opportunity to getting your car faster. Keep the tech line as part of it. I could see this system being automated (no computer babysitter, easier on the organizers).

The confusion for me would be the complexities of re-tooling software. Notifying a person when their time is up, probably with a buzzer or noise when they cross the line and keeping guys off the track who are done.

Also what to do as far as Sunday goes before the Mains. I was thinking of a sorta "warm-up" heads up race. Mostly to get the guys in the mains together to see and work-out how they run together. Maybe the winners of each of these races in all mains get a simple Tamiya part. The higher the main the more $$ the part. These warm-up races are just a way to get people in the groove for the mains and triple AAAs.

I guess I worked out the Bugs to what I was thinking of initially. . .


I bring up the new format mainly because Fred is sick of IFMAR.
He is looking for a change to make the series more interesting and fun.
He wants to try something new in the off season to see how it would work.
If he was not looking for change, then I would not be wasting my time typing all of this. . .

Plus this is only for the Nats, keep the regionals the same with IFMAR/Main format.

Last edited by A-Ko; 08-26-2006 at 11:41 PM.
A-Ko is offline  
Old 08-27-2006, 01:29 AM
  #3973  
Tech Lord
iTrader: (26)
 
Hebiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 12,922
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default 2003 Nats.....

anyone remember that scoreboard Tamiya used to bring out and it posted the top 3 drivers? whatever happened to that scoreboard?
Hebiki is offline  
Old 08-27-2006, 09:38 AM
  #3974  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,275
Default

Originally Posted by A-Ko
Actually when I was speaking with Fred last weekend this type of format was on my brain. A little more complicated than my previous post. Gary you just got me thinking about it again trying to make it work in my head.

I was thinking about each racer has a 20 laps and something like a 1/2 hour rotation per class. Maybe each class would get 3 or 4 rotations.

All the Chumps would of course would be racing each round.

Take the best 10 laps from a finished 20 lap run (the laps could be changed depending on entries to either allow more or less for a finished run). Like you said you would go out when you deem fit and focus on running fast laps. So car placement on the track, quality laps and traffic would be important. You probably would also want the times broadcast live trackside. I was also thinking about only 10 drivers at a time. So if drivers use up their 20 lap clock in the 1st run then they are done for qualifying and cannot go back out. So strategy could be traffic, time of day and maybe a pace partner. In essence this is like IFMAR but with a focus on opportunity to getting your car faster. Keep the tech line as part of it. I could see this system being automated (no computer babysitter, easier on the organizers).

The confusion for me would be the complexities of re-tooling software. Notifying a person when their time is up, probably with a buzzer or noise when they cross the line and keeping guys off the track who are done.

Also what to do as far as Sunday goes before the Mains. I was thinking of a sorta "warm-up" heads up race. Mostly to get the guys in the mains together to see and work-out how they run together. Maybe the winners of each of these races in all mains get a simple Tamiya part. The higher the main the more $$ the part. These warm-up races are just a way to get people in the groove for the mains and triple AAAs.

I guess I worked out the Bugs to what I was thinking of initially. . .


I bring up the new format mainly because Fred is sick of IFMAR.
He is looking for a change to make the series more interesting and fun.
He wants to try something new in the off season to see how it would work.
If he was not looking for change, then I would not be wasting my time typing all of this. . .

Plus this is only for the Nats, keep the regionals the same with IFMAR/Main format.
OK it's time to say something. IFMAR style qualifing is by far the best way to compete for a national title. Qual. points are different from club racing, but it's not confusing like a few of you have posted. It's actually very simple. There's only a couple of things that might be worth changing for everyone in my opinion:
1)Race the regionals exactly like the nat's(except no hand out tire)as far as rules go for regionals.
2)hand out tires, rims and inserts for the nationals would be great( with only (4) sets of tires to be teched for the entire event)
(3)During practice the computer system should check everyones laps to determane eveyone's lap times in each class to sort the qualifying heats.
(4) Other than that I think everything is how it needs to be.

It's always fun to come up with new ways to race, but you guys are making thing's really complicted for nothing. So, everyone has a gripe about something. And now you didn't make the main you wanted because that one person crashed you or what ever. At every race there's going to be fast people and slow people. And worst, good luck and bad luck for some. If you guy's consentrate more on racing instead of trying to change every rule you don't like , you will have a much better time at the race's. And problably reach the main you would like to make. PREPERATION is everything.
Juan Aveytia is offline  
Old 08-27-2006, 12:03 PM
  #3975  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (11)
 
C_O_jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wa.
Posts: 9,055
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Good post Juan, but with all the changes wanted, I think you should have said:
PREPERATION H, is everthing!

Fred
C_O_jones is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.