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Old 04-04-2016, 11:12 AM
  #20566  
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The Mini A Main at the most recent Regional was not a true test of the spec motor, though no fault of its own.

The qualifiers were interesting, sort of...
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:17 PM
  #20567  
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Had such a blast Yesterday. Big thank to Fred and the Tamiya crew for hosting such a great race. Also big thank to Max for the great track prep as usual. Hope Fred didn't miss the Walking Dead when he got home.

I also tried F1 with Reedy 25.5 in racing condition and I have to say it is a good move. We had a improved F1 turn out and the cars are no longer intimidating for less experienced driver to drive. I heard the fast lap for 25.5 is only 2 tenth off the best 21.5 lap in last years national which proves the car did not really get that much slower.

I also got my first ever A Main win in TCS series which is something I'll enjoy for quite a bit.
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:08 PM
  #20568  
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Originally Posted by k_bojar
i understand setups don't always pan out from one track to another - i asked before i was looking for a starting point, not some (again) vague/cryptic explanations and a line like "i now know a good setup" but oh so cryptic

trust me, if the setup was too radical, I wouldn't even try - I'm interested in seeing WHAT people are running, and trying to see what i know works best at my track

but you're right... no hard feelings, just disappointed
Don't feel too bad about my vague advice. If I gave you the complete setup (after this last weekend at TCS) it looks to be BAD ADVICE!

So for me, its back to the testing and theory. I'll be happy to send you info about what I've learned so far, but I doubt you'll want it.

PM Sent.

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Old 04-04-2016, 08:49 PM
  #20569  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
...

i guess what im saying its that (i think) there should be a little 'wiggle room' and not limited to the 50degree mark, seeing as that the motor out the box its designed so that you can push the timing past the marked 50degree without physical modification. I think we should look at the timing marks as a reference guide and not a limitation. in the end we are all using the same motor and blinky speedos.

$0.02
Some of the Reedy M3 timing units shipped in these motors allow you to rotate past the 50 degree mark and others do not, so your suggestion would penalize those with the more restrictive timing units.

Timing variations, while important, are not the only source of performance variation between these motors.

I would like to see Tamiya work with HobbyWing or some other ESC manufacturer to produce a $50 brushless ESC with a "mini spec blinky" mode that limits both motor acceleration and motor RPM to preset values that have been determined to produce the same performance in a Mini as a typical Reedy M3 motor with, say, 48 degrees of endbell timing. It is "just a small matter of programming" for the ESC firmware to do this. The alternative is to tech motor RPM like we used to do, and I don't think anybody wants to go back there.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:57 PM
  #20570  
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Originally Posted by MarkBrown
Some of the Reedy M3 timing units shipped in these motors allow you to rotate past the 50 degree mark and others do not,.....
true, possibly... and if so, my suspicion is that those that cannot not be pushed further/as far by design past the 50, are those that already have 'more' RPM at the 50degree mark...

i think it will all 'even out' and/or have a smaller gap at the far end...


$0.02
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:13 PM
  #20571  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
I have to agree 100%

What a great day of racing, again!

Thank you, thank you!
Also thanks to Tamiya USA for the tastefully designed t-shirts. They will get more use than the garish ones that are often given at other races.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
true, possibly... and if so, my suspicion is that those that cannot not be pushed further/as far by design past the 50, are those that already have 'more' RPM at the 50degree mark...

i think it will all 'even out' and/or have a smaller gap at the far end...


$0.02
Sounds like time for Sean from Reedy to inject some information here.

I think part of Fred's idea with this spec motor was to reduce speeds a bit from where they were heading with the screaming RPMish 21.5s. Opening the timing back up will work against that.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkBrown
....
I think part of Fred's idea with this spec motor was to reduce speeds a bit from where they were heading with the screaming RPMish 21.5s. Opening the timing back up will work against that.
none of them that i witnessed were as fast as my R1-wurks

i think Fred's 'ultimate goal' has been achieved..no worries

i gotta admit tho... it is a 'nice piece of kit'.. i would rank it quicker than the 16t we use at Nats definitely..
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:40 PM
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Thanks Fred and the TCS crew for another (long) but fun race at Aliso. 19 heats for a TCS regional ! That was great to see.

As for the nay sayers of the switch to the Reedy spec motors, the F1 field was 18 cars strong. Largest F1 field at a TCS event in some time with some old racers returning and some new ones joining the class. The driveability of the F1 cars with the 25.5 is surely helping grow the class again and the parity on power between the cars was very close. One mistake would cost you a number of positions. Looking forward to my next TCS race next month on carpet.

Panda
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
none of them that i witnessed were as fast as my R1-wurks

i think Fred's 'ultimate goal' has been achieved..no worries

i gotta admit tho... it is a 'nice piece of kit'.. i would rank it quicker than the 16t we use at Nats definitely..
The 25.5 not nearly as fast as my R1wurks either, (fast enough though ) however, maybe apples and oranges? ROAR blah blah blah etc...

Is the Reedy on the ROAR list?
I guess that's moot if it's on the TCS list cuz we don't have to give a dang.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:23 PM
  #20576  
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Motor timing is not a big deal in any other class except Mini. Rpm rules only reward those who are willing to buy lots of motors and parts until they hit gold, or cook the rotors to lessen magnetism. This is a racing class...let the racers race! All motors have sweet spots, and racers will find theirs (?). Before all these restrictions cam about, Mini racing was a lot more fun. This isn't "everyone gets a trophy" middle school soccer.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
The 25.5 not nearly as fast as my R1wurks either, (fast enough though ) however, maybe apples and oranges? ROAR blah blah blah etc...

Is the Reedy on the ROAR list?
I guess that's moot if it's on the TCS list cuz we don't have to give a dang.
The Reedy 25.5 uses as 12.5mm rotor, so it can't become ROAR legal unless ROAR changes its rule requiring a 12.3mm rotor for 25.5 motors.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Laguna Bozo
Motor timing is not a big deal in any other class except Mini. Rpm rules only reward those who are willing to buy lots of motors and parts until they hit gold, or cook the rotors to lessen magnetism. This is a racing class...let the racers race! All motors have sweet spots, and racers will find theirs (?). Before all these restrictions cam about, Mini racing was a lot more fun. This isn't "everyone gets a trophy" middle school soccer.
The Mini with a 20T pinion has fixed rollout of approximately 32.5mm; with smaller pinions, smaller. If Minis had open gearing then you could look for a motor's sweet spot, but with fixed gearing and the tiny rollout you must hunt for RPM.

Even in Australia, where they run a spec Hobbywing sensorless motor and spec Hobbywing speedo (retailing at $80 for the pair), they have to tech to an RPM limit to keep the arms race under control and avoid driving racers away.

Enforcing performance limits within the ESC would let racers focus on chassis setup and driving, not motors and batteries. I think this would be the most fun for the greatest number of racers, and worth striving for, but I could be wrong.

--mark
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Old 04-05-2016, 09:00 PM
  #20579  
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Yes, in Mini, RPM is king. Why not let the racers figure this out on their own? The same guys will be winning, but the slower guys will be closer...
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:10 PM
  #20580  
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Mark, your view about limiting performance by strick rule doesn't IMHO work. Nor is it any fun...
The Tamiya Raceway racers (Mini Mafia) are a tight-nit bunch, some of us friends for more than 25 years. Info is exchanged freely, and mentoring is the norm. Of course we race other classes, but this is real Americana. Please realize this micro-managing isn't improving anything.
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