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Old 09-05-2005, 06:06 AM
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Tamiya...

Thanks for another great season. Again another great time with friends...now lets start talking about classes/locations for next season. My daughter wants a TLT-1 or Lunchbox class. Id be cool with a Grasshopper class!

Mini/TA04...TA05?? I think 415...
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:38 AM
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Hi Guys,

Some videos of the A final runs at the TCS National (filmed by Mr. Greg Hodapp (thank you!) )

TCS National Videos

Steve Wang
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Old 09-05-2005, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Having experienced 1:1 scale racing for a number of years, I can't help but scratch my head about all these calls for Spec this and Spec that. I used to race a $15,000 Mazda against a $100,000 Alfa and beat him.

I think people are losing sight that racing is a competitive sport. That means people will look for every advantage they can. You want a spec series to leave it up to the "driving talent" ? Fine, here's what you get. Everbody runs the same car (with the exact same parts) same tires, same inserts, the same battery pack, the same body, same gear ratio, etc. Want to take that Mabuchi or 23T back to the pits to do a little "dyno work". Sorry, comes out of the car before you leave tech. Your race is next, OK, here's your motor, you can put it back in now (in 1:1 it's called sealed motors). You think I'm joking, what do you think Formula Mazda or Formula Barber series are. When all is said and done, someone will still complain that someone else had a better motor, better battery pack, etc.

If that's what you want, fine. Go find a series like that. Was there less people this year at TCS Nats ? Yes. Were a number of people deciding not to run TCS to run the Vegas race ? Sounds like it from the posts I read. Should a series that is paid for and promoted by Tamiya start allowing more outside manufactures products in ? Why should they ? Will one person run a fresh set of tires every run vs someone who runs 2 sets all weekend ? Sure. But what's wrong with that ? I like racing R/C for the atomsphere, friendships I've made, and the competition. I've got more trick parts and gadgets than some guys, and less than others. When people ask me how much it costs to race R/C, I ask them how much do you want to spend and how competitive do you want to be. An old racing phrase (and I know you have head this one Fred F). Speed is just a matter of money, how much do you want to spend ?

Now it's time to again thank Fred and staff, and all the event organizers at all the tracks across the U.S. for putting on this series each year. I can't wait until '06.
I have been out of town for a couple of days so excuse the lateness of this post. I agree with you on the friends and hanging out aspect. However I strongly disagree with the mentality of bottomless budgets. For most of us this is still a hobby, a hobby that is already expensive ( I am not complaining, the fact that we are here is evidence that we accept the expense by competing in the first place). Allowing people to buy wins will kill the hobby. Yes they still have to drive, but between motors, batteries and tires, if someone can afford to replace all three every run it goes away from the spirit of the series. I have played the spending game and gotten nowhere, and quite frankly I cannot afford to keep doing so. I know that I am not the only one in this position. The question is who do you cater to? The handfull of people that can spend whatever they want, or the other 95% that only have so much to spend? IMO if you cater to the 5% I would bet that the series will not last. I don't think that by making certain equiptment "spec" is going to ruin the racing. I also don't think that the motor rules would go to the extremes that you describe. My other thought, and this could work outside of TCS as well is, stop running against the clock. I know it sounds crazy, but what if you were to qualify against the clock, but for the main you take the highest lap count and add 1 or 2 laps to it and run the mains like a true race instead of a race against the clock. Would it be better? I don't know, but it would be different. I can think of probably two or three other ways of doing it. Why? Because you begin to take the equipment out of the equation and begin to make it more about driving skill and racecraft rather than just hotlapping. Short story long, I just think it is time for a change, to keep it interesting.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:08 PM
  #2044  
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Originally Posted by SpeedTech
Hi Guys,

Some videos of the A final runs at the TCS National (filmed by Mr. Greg Hodapp (thank you!) )

TCS National Videos

Steve Wang
thx for the heads up
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Old 09-06-2005, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I have been out of town for a couple of days so excuse the lateness of this post. I agree with you on the friends and hanging out aspect. However I strongly disagree with the mentality of bottomless budgets. For most of us this is still a hobby, a hobby that is already expensive ( I am not complaining, the fact that we are here is evidence that we accept the expense by competing in the first place). Allowing people to buy wins will kill the hobby. Yes they still have to drive, but between motors, batteries and tires, if someone can afford to replace all three every run it goes away from the spirit of the series. I have played the spending game and gotten nowhere, and quite frankly I cannot afford to keep doing so. I know that I am not the only one in this position. The question is who do you cater to? The handfull of people that can spend whatever they want, or the other 95% that only have so much to spend? IMO if you cater to the 5% I would bet that the series will not last. I don't think that by making certain equiptment "spec" is going to ruin the racing. I also don't think that the motor rules would go to the extremes that you describe. My other thought, and this could work outside of TCS as well is, stop running against the clock. I know it sounds crazy, but what if you were to qualify against the clock, but for the main you take the highest lap count and add 1 or 2 laps to it and run the mains like a true race instead of a race against the clock. Would it be better? I don't know, but it would be different. I can think of probably two or three other ways of doing it. Why? Because you begin to take the equipment out of the equation and begin to make it more about driving skill and racecraft rather than just hotlapping. Short story long, I just think it is time for a change, to keep it interesting.
BP Shadow,

I pretty much agree with everything said.

The only thing I am not sure about is the race format.
If you set the race by laps instead of time that would mean you would have to wait for 10th place to finish their lets say 22 laps. Since time constraints are a bigger issue, waiting 6, 7 or 8 minutes for the last car to finish might not be worth the change. I am ok that we are NOT 100% in alignment with Japan and their rules. I would be open to change if it benefits the series without slowing down the day.

It might be worth Tamiya's time to poll some of the current drivers in the series on certain possible changes and their effect.

.....................

Sticking with Tamiya only tires because it is the TCS series. Well don't forget we use other non-motors for GT1 and GT2. The only time there is an alignment of motors somewhat with Japan is at the Nationals. The percentage of guys who race the series and goto the Nationals might be around 10 to 15%.

I am NOT for opening up the rules for everything under the sun.
If changes improve tire availability issues, which I got screwed on earlier this year, it can only make what has been done better.

....................

If Mini is going to be split into 2 classes and it is not a trip to Japan class. It might be worth to consider making Mini a possible 2nd entry class, at the Nats, for those that wish to run a 2nd class.
I would consider doing it, which would mean more sales for Tamiya.

.....................

Steve Wang & Greg Hodapp,

Thanks for the heads up on the videos.
I especially liked the GT1 video, what a smooooooooth race!

Jeff
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Old 09-06-2005, 06:18 PM
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Jeff,
You wouldn't wait till every car is done with the total laps, it would be like real racing where the first one across the line wins and if you are a lap down so be it. Also in the name of time savings, qualifying could be cut to 2 1/2 minutes and grids set by fast lap. These are just ideas , I think that the adoption of this format would be more interesting for both drivers and spectators, and might actually be easier to call, because time is no longer a factor. Also since you are not on separate clocks, qualifying might actually be shorter. Just some thoughts. I just think that the IFMAR qualifying system is kind of lame and doesn't prepare anyone to run heads up, that is why there has been known to be carnage in the first turn. I did see the vids of the mains from the nats and I gotta admit they did put on a good show, very clean too.
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Old 09-06-2005, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
BP Shadow,

I pretty much agree with everything said.

The only thing I am not sure about is the race format.
If you set the race by laps instead of time that would mean you would have to wait for 10th place to finish their lets say 22 laps. Since time constraints are a bigger issue, waiting 6, 7 or 8 minutes for the last car to finish might not be worth the change. I am ok that we are NOT 100% in alignment with Japan and their rules. I would be open to change if it benefits the series without slowing down the day.
Jeff,

If it was run with a lap limit, "like a real race" you would not have wait for every car to run 22 laps, if that was the number of laps to be run. Just like a real race the race is over when the leader finishes the set number of laps and everone else finishes the lap they are on when the leader crosses the finish line. If a car gets laped 2 times then that car would only be running 20 laps. So you would not be adding any more time onto the day.

This actually doesn't seem like too bad of an idea though. I really don't care which way Tamiya runs the race as long as the series continues on, I always have a great time at the race.

Larry
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:01 PM
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OK, now how do you determine the no of laps the race will be?
GT 1 ran 20 laps at the nats, while GT2 ran 18 laps.
Say you set the no of laps to 20 in GT1, thats still 5 mins of racing, so then you set GT2 to 20 laps, that would increase to 5 1/2 mins? But will the batts last in GT1 to go another 2 laps?
With 5 min quals and 5 min mains you can organize the amount of time it takes to run a whole race day, and at Tamiya the clock runs smoothly all day long, be it the nats or the Reedy race.
Fred
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:37 PM
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This system would work for main events but not qualifying. Everyone would need to complete 22 laps (your example) to know how to resort to the mains. Imagine if you were like in Rod Canares 'heat'. He does 22 while lapping you 3 times. What if you were in Chris Lims heat and he only laps you once. Rod would be 'penalizing' everyone in his heat on top of embarrassing them
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Old 09-06-2005, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeR
This system would work for main events but not qualifying. Everyone would need to complete 22 laps (your example) to know how to resort to the mains. Imagine if you were like in Rod Canares 'heat'. He does 22 while lapping you 3 times. What if you were in Chris Lims heat and he only laps you once. Rod would be 'penalizing' everyone in his heat on top of embarrassing them
awww man how did i get into this? i guess its a compliment since im lapping someone. im the lapper.. not the lapee
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Old 09-07-2005, 05:44 AM
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hi guys,

i am new to electrics...

was wondering in the mini class, do the faster guys use brakes for the 180 turns?

thanks
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Old 09-07-2005, 06:06 AM
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@MikeR - Mains would be set up by your fastest lap. If you run 2 1/2 Minutes of qualifying and everyone takes the fastest lap, how can it not work? For a 2 1/2 Minute qualifyer, you would double the lap count and add 1 or 2 laps to the total. Will it work? I don't know, its an idea . There are many ways to execute it. You could take an average lap time and calculate a lap total for a given track and thats the number of laps for every main. The possibilities are endless.
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Old 09-07-2005, 06:14 AM
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One other thing on batteries, that is where the catch is. If you know you need to run an extra 1 or 2 laps in the main, you have to adjust accordingly.
This is where strategy and racecraftt come into play. Do you leave the gearing alone and back off a couple of percent, or do you gear down and let it rip. My feeling is that with the ridiculous capacity of cells today you should be able to run past 5 minutes anyway.
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Old 09-07-2005, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by noobie
hi guys,

i am new to electrics...

was wondering in the mini class, do the faster guys use brakes for the 180 turns?

thanks
Not really in Mini. It's pretty much from what I heard floor it and gore it, there may be some times where you have to lift but it's pretty much all out. Mabuchi's really don't have all that power in them so there's really no need to brake except lift a little.

-Lee
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Old 09-07-2005, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Jeff,
You wouldn't wait till every car is done with the total laps, it would be like real racing where the first one across the line wins and if you are a lap down so be it. Also in the name of time savings, qualifying could be cut to 2 1/2 minutes and grids set by fast lap. These are just ideas , I think that the adoption of this format would be more interesting for both drivers and spectators, and might actually be easier to call, because time is no longer a factor. Also since you are not on separate clocks, qualifying might actually be shorter. Just some thoughts. I just think that the IFMAR qualifying system is kind of lame and doesn't prepare anyone to run heads up, that is why there has been known to be carnage in the first turn. I did see the vids of the mains from the nats and I gotta admit they did put on a good show, very clean too.
Brad,

I mentioned waiting for everyone to do their laps, another venue I do is like that. You either are against the clock, finish the race after a certain time (scored by laps and time) or we have sprint races where everybody finishes the preset amount of laps (scored by finishing position after so many laps).

It would be a different way in doing it with preset laps. I don't think adding 2 laps would really butcher the race clock too much. Even if you did not add 2 laps it could be a way for the event to make up some time because you know guys will finish earlier. It probably would make calling the race easier and the winner might get to set of the buzzer.

I don't know if I would want to shorted qualifying. People would forget how to run past the 1/2 way mark.

I do miss heads up racing. Not just in the Tamiya series but local racing in general. I feel like I am in a lazyboy for qualifying and then run a marathon for the mains.

Jeff
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