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Old 04-27-2015, 09:44 PM
  #19861  
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Originally Posted by EricP
No worries Torg. It just threw me off as I had thought they were on the list, but had forgotten we removed them for reasons stated above. I will in fact re-write the list and group all of the older bodies to clarify what we will in fact allow as acceptable.



Not to worry Orlando. The FF class is 'my baby' and I have no intention on allowing the GT wing. Those of you that oversteer, slow down or set your cars up better. Everyone else is in the same boat.
Yea true, after seeing how big a gt wing look on a integra body, I rather not have a wing... Lol.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:14 AM
  #19862  
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Originally Posted by AWK
There will always be "the body" to have no matter which bodies are ruled out. If the Golf is no more, everyone will go to the Scirocco. At least when outlawing something like the Golf, since it never came on the kit, you won't run into the potential issue of a new racer showing up with their box stock kit and being told they cannot race their body. With the Scirocco, that would happen.

I will say this class was the most fun when everyone was running old FF01 style bodies like the Alfa 156 right Eric? Make it the 90's BTCC class!!!
I agree. And yes, I mean... my avatar.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:08 AM
  #19863  
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Originally Posted by EricP
I agree. And yes, I mean... my avatar.
From one Alfisti to another:

You're missing the Alfa 155 in that list.. You have it available with Jaeger Meister livery and soon the Martini
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:42 AM
  #19864  
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Originally Posted by Raman
From one Alfisti to another:

You're missing the Alfa 155 in that list.. You have it available with Jaeger Meister livery and soon the Martini
The DTM 155 is not an FF car.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by EricP
The DTM 155 is not an FF car.
So your going off of the real DTM cars?

I thought since you did have the TA03F with Martini 155, it would be eligible
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MD
The body rules keep people from participating in the TCS. In my area their are guys with Tamiya TCS legal cars, but the Tamiya bodies they have are not approved and they don't participate.
Care to elaborate? The body rule is very simple, and in the major GT classes, only a handful of (to my knowledge, all discontinued) bodies are not legal. I'm surprised that having to buy a $35-$45 body, over hundreds of dollars spent on RC chassis kits/parts to be TCS legal, is hindering their will to participate. I've heard this argument before from people, but it is always "my friend", so any further explanation I'm sure would interest those at Tamiya USA as well to make any needed adjustments to their rules.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:30 PM
  #19867  
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Originally Posted by AWK
Care to elaborate? The body rule is very simple, and in the major GT classes, only a handful of (to my knowledge, all discontinued) bodies are not legal. I'm surprised that having to buy a $35-$45 body, over hundreds of dollars spent on RC chassis kits/parts to be TCS legal, is hindering their will to participate. I've heard this argument before from people, but it is always "my friend", so any further explanation I'm sure would interest those at Tamiya USA as well to make any needed adjustments to their rules.
You've heard it before because it's true. For some people on a budget $35 or more makes a difference. There are racers with Tamiya chassises who run USGT and other TC classes. Their chassis are Tamiya legal and they have older Tamiya bodies, such as the older NSX bodies. They ran them in previous Tamiya races and they put the bodies away. Now, they're illegal. So, they don't run regional races. At the national level may be a strict body requirement is necessary. I am old and I learn a lot at the Tamiya races, but there have been years where I didn't go out and buy a Tamiya body to run a TCS race. I have a very nice NSX body that I was given. But, too bad it's not legal. I think Tamiya should more carefully weigh the decisions it makes for regional races.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:48 PM
  #19868  
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Originally Posted by Raman
So your going off of the real DTM cars?

I thought since you did have the TA03F with Martini 155, it would be eligible
I don't mean to beat it to the ground, but the discussion has nothing to do with DTM cars, but rather the FF class rules for TCS.

Also, the TA03F was a 4WD chassis, so it in itself has nothing to do with the class.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:05 PM
  #19869  
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Originally Posted by MD
You've heard it before because it's true. For some people on a budget $35 or more makes a difference. There are racers with Tamiya chassises who run USGT and other TC classes. Their chassis are Tamiya legal and they have older Tamiya bodies, such as the older NSX bodies. They ran them in previous Tamiya races and they put the bodies away. Now, they're illegal. So, they don't run regional races. At the national level may be a strict body requirement is necessary. I am old and I learn a lot at the Tamiya races, but there have been years where I didn't go out and buy a Tamiya body to run a TCS race. I have a very nice NSX body that I was given. But, too bad it's not legal. I think Tamiya should more carefully weigh the decisions it makes for regional races.
A great deal of thought goes into a rule change and it is not made "just because we feel like it". Additionally, TCS is a 'series', and regional races as well as the national event follows one set of rules for that given season. There is no reason to separate a regional race from the national event in terms of rules.

As for the "old" NSX, i'll be blatant about it - it is (was) the go-to body, plain and simple. They are now discontinued/unavailable and good luck finding one, thus putting every single person that does not have one at some kind of disadvantage. With the knowledge of reverse-engineered re-pops on the market, besides the obvious need to sell new products, this is why is has been removed from TCS.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by EricP
A great deal of thought goes into a rule change and it is not made "just because we feel like it". Additionally, TCS is a 'series', and regional races as well as the national event follows one set of rules for that given season. There is no reason to separate a regional race from the national event in terms of rules.

As for the "old" NSX, i'll be blatant about it - it is (was) the go-to body, plain and simple. They are now discontinued/unavailable and good luck finding one, thus putting every single person that does not have one at some kind of disadvantage. With the knowledge of reverse-engineered re-pops on the market, besides the obvious need to sell new products, this is why is has been removed from TCS.
I have been a Tamiya owner since the first "Lunch Box" came out and I still have it. I raced the Tamiya regional this year in Winthrop Harbor this year. I hadn't raced the series since 2007. I was frustrated by past decisions like the whole series of cars in the F1 class. It was the F103. It was the F201, no it's not legal. Then it was the F103GT and then it was illegal, etc. FWD look like a fun glass and then it's not a class. You can run Tamiya tires and then, no you have to run certain Tamiya tires. I am sure there are good reasons for all of these things. People go out and buy Tamiya kits and then they find out the tires and body they got with the kit are not legal for the TCS.

This is my view and other racers views who would consider running the TCS. Tamiya's rules are their rules. If you want to participate these are rules you have to follow.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MD
I have been a Tamiya owner since the first "Lunch Box" came out and I still have it. I raced the Tamiya regional this year in Winthrop Harbor this year. I hadn't raced the series since 2007. I was frustrated by past decisions like the whole series of cars in the F1 class. It was the F103. It was the F201, no it's not legal. Then it was the F103GT and then it was illegal, etc. FWD look like a fun glass and then it's not a class. You can run Tamiya tires and then, no you have to run certain Tamiya tires. I am sure there are good reasons for all of these things. People go out and buy Tamiya kits and then they find out the tires and body they got with the kit are not legal for the TCS.

This is my view and other racers views who would consider running the TCS. Tamiya's rules are their rules. If you want to participate these are rules you have to follow.
So these same "friends" that will not race a TCS race just because they have to buy a new body probably spend more money in entry fees, motor spray tires and incidentals for one regular club race than the cost of a new Tamiya body. And I bet they are running the same VTA or USGT body for the last 2-3 years and do not buy a new one just because there is a new "fast body" that comes out.

As for your tire / body kit comparison, Tamiya has not released a kit in the last year (maybe two or more) that came with with a 2007 or earlier NSX so would be interesting to know what kit you could buy recently that had a body you could not use ? And what kits are you saying you can buy that the tires are not legal ? And if that is an issue, can you name another brand kit that comes with tires in the kit you would run at your local race track for a competitive race ? Just curious....

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Old 04-29-2015, 06:19 AM
  #19872  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
So these same "friends" that will not race a TCS race just because they have to buy a new body probably spend more money in entry fees, motor spray tires and incidentals for one regular club race than the cost of a new Tamiya body. And I bet they are running the same VTA or USGT body for the last 2-3 years and do not buy a new one just because there is a new "fast body" that comes out.

As for your tire / body kit comparison, Tamiya has not released a kit in the last year (maybe two or more) that came with with a 2007 or earlier NSX so would be interesting to know what kit you could buy recently that had a body you could not use ? And what kits are you saying you can buy that the tires are not legal ? And if that is an issue, can you name another brand kit that comes with tires in the kit you would run at your local race track for a competitive race ? Just curious....

Panda
I am sorry you don't believe me when I say people don't run the TCS because they have to buy a new body. I stand corrected on the kit bodies. That's not correct. There are illegal bodies listed for the GT classes, but I don't know if they are kit bodies. As far as tires go, I don't think you can run the kit tires that come in the mini kits. A lot of the racers I know are on a budget and they run a body until until shoe goo won't hold it together. They save where ever*they can. They limit number of classes they run, they race less often because of the cost, they race less often because of the cost of gas driving to races, etc. Some have Tamiya chassis and older Tamiya bodies that are not legal. All I can tell you is that I have been part of the discussions at local tracks and the question of bodies continues to come up. I like Tamiya products I have four Tamiya cars. I race Mini regularly. My point is that there could be more racers running the TCS, which would be great. I could have an NSX body and the good drivers would beat me with a shoe box for a body.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:43 AM
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1 - I appreciate the example, and I can believe the fact the some people are on a budget more than others. At the end of the day, while these are toy cars, they are not cheap especially if you want to compete to win. Everyone has a break even point with their investment into R/C racing.

2 - The TCS series is a platform for racers to use their Tamiya products and run against one another in a series that strives to maintain a balance of competitiveness, cost, and fairness to the competitors. At the same time, the series is free (no entry fees) for the racers to run. At the same time, Tamiya USA continues to provide medals, trophies, and even prizes for the free racing series. So in order to get a return on this investment, it is also a marketing exercise that strives to get a return like any other marketing endeavor. So how is this done? They need to continue to sell new product to the racers. I think Tamiya USA has done a very good job of finding a balance between progressing rules to keep up with the current R/C climate, while also allowing a period of time to move away from discontinued chassis, bodies, and other items.

If Tamiya USA did continue to allow discontinued bodies that proved to have an advantage or be the "go to body" for racers, there would be a lot of uproar from the people who did not stock pile bodies, or new racers who never had the chance to get one. While people have argued that they can get them from overseas sellers, this again does not benefit the racer by having to go to lengths to source the items, and does not benefit Tamiya USA from having racers buy their parts from outside the U.S. which they see no return on.

There is always going to be a balance, and not everyone will always be happy. I think at the end of the day it is better for people to buy a new body and maintain a level playing field than force people to source parts that are hard to find, and pay potentially higher prices.

Think of it this way; those who have a 2005 NSX body might have had it for 10 years by now. The next body you buy might last another 10 years as well. $45 over a potential 10 year life span isn't a bad investment considering the potential number of motors, batteries, and tires purchased in that same span of time.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:21 AM
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AWK, thanks for taking time with your explanation of Tamiya's view. I appreciate it. I don't know if this is a practical idea or not. Could Tamiya make some surplus bodies available at a reduced price through the regional hobby shops hosting races? These may not be the most popular bodies, but they would meet the requirement. Thanks again for your response.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AWK
Think of it this way; those who have a 2005 NSX body might have had it for 10 years by now. The next body you buy might last another 10 years as well. $45 over a potential 10 year life span isn't a bad investment considering the potential number of motors, batteries, and tires purchased in that same span of time.
You know someone who can make a body last 10 years?! Holy moley! Even our fast guys here run through several bodies per season. We've got this one dude who's cheap and is very good with duct tape who can run his for a couple seasons, but that's pushing it.
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