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Old 02-27-2015, 02:40 PM
  #19651  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
...

lets just all be gentlemen and participate in the fun of the event. Fred cannot possibly word every little idiosyncrasy of the rule. We have been doing this long enough to know the ins-n-outs and the intention of the series and its rule set. if you get called for it, just simply comply and carry-on. ...
I think Fred is trying to improve communication with his tech inspectors just as much as with racers. For instance, at last year's Nats a racer tried to run an Evo 5 with a 418 suspension and was told no. Another racer ran a TB03 with a 418 suspension and was allowed. Both racers were experienced and both thought they knew the "ins-n-outs".

So I applaud Fred's efforts to clarify what's legal and what's not. I just want to understand how Fred intends the setup sheet to be used. And I hope the tech inspectors will have the same understanding.
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Old 02-27-2015, 03:31 PM
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unfortunate... and a sticky situation. while i watched everyone jump to the 418-sus on their TB0-this and TA0-that i patiently waited. until there is a kit (non-418) released with said suspension i know its not allowed, or until officially deemed legal by Fred.. like in the past.

i didnt pay much attention last year as i was racing mini.. but anyhow i understand the concern, just be ready to adapt..
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
unfortunate... and a sticky situation. while i watched everyone jump to the 418-sus on their TB0-this and TA0-that i patiently waited. until there is a kit (non-418) released with said suspension i know its not allowed, or until officially deemed legal by Fred.. like in the past.

i didnt pay much attention last year as i was racing mini.. but anyhow i understand the concern, just be ready to adapt..
Maybe that's why it's allowed on some and not on others. The TB04 Pro II now comes with the 418 arms. The TA06-R also comes with them.

Is this why you're now allowed to switch to 418 arms on the TB04s and TA06s?
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kwkride
Maybe that's why it's allowed on some and not on others. The TB04 Pro II now comes with the 418 arms. The TA06-R also comes with them.

Is this why you're now allowed to switch to 418 arms on the TB04s and TA06s?
This would make sense to me. I cant see letting older cars such as a TB03 or TA05 being allowed to do this. These cars are out of production, therefor we wont be seeing these coming out with new "R" versions featuring 418 suspension. If they start allowing this to happen, I question a lot of rules put forth.
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:12 AM
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speaking of hard to find parts... when did body posts become rare

#51253
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:33 AM
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You can find it here according to the websites.
http://www.skmotion.net/TB-EVOLUTION...TS_p_3706.html

http://store.rcmadness.com/product-p/tam51253.htm

http://www.superiorhobbies.com/store...,+Lower+Bumper
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:39 AM
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TCS Race # 201 this weekend at Horsham.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...et-season.html
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by The Stig US
This would make sense to me. I cant see letting older cars such as a TB03 or TA05 being allowed to do this. These cars are out of production, therefor we wont be seeing these coming out with new "R" versions featuring 418 suspension. If they start allowing this to happen, I question a lot of rules put forth.
is there any significant advantage in using the 418 suspensions? so much that it needs to be ban for older cars?
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Sodano
TCS Race # 201 this weekend at Horsham.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...et-season.html
I'll be there bright and early, Sunday morning. Ready to run 2 classes!

Question -- I CANNOT run PIT tires for the F1 races, correct?
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by unwritten
is there any significant advantage in using the 418 suspensions? so much that it needs to be ban for older cars?
I haven't really noticed any difference on my TA06.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kwkride
I haven't really noticed any difference on my TA06.
same here.

kentech suspension arm comparison

Others have had their car set up for 417 arms, tried 418 and then gone back again because they felt their car was more responsive with 417 arms.

I ran my TA06 with:

417 arms for 2014 regional


418 arms for 2014 National.


Here are some other changes:
RM01 servo mount (same shape and size as TA06 plastic ones).
TA06MS steering arm spare
TA06 Carbon Side Brace needed to accomodate part above (Servo and ESC switched sides so cables don't have to run through the belt)
TA06MS pulley mount spare
418 stabilizer kit

Did it change the outcome in any way shape or form? no
Did it make Tamiya money? yes
Was it fun to do? yes
Did I break the rules? you know what? If I read the rules I have absolutely no clue... but I checked with Fred before the race and he said ok. And nobody said anything during tech (or at my table) either. They probably thought... doesn't matter what he does, it's a TA06

As a newbie to all of this I do feel the rules could benefit from a FAQ section and examples of things that are allowed/disallowed. An example: apparently it's common knowledge that you can dremel the TA05/TB03 chassis to fit a square battery pack. I am glad that it is ok, but when I read the rules as they are written... I don't see that as being ok at all. If you don't read this thread on rctech, how would you know? The Tamiya folks are probably tired of answering the same questions over and over again as well Different regional races could also refer to such a section for clarification. For instance one region limited SPEC/Novice to Tamiya ESCs only others did not.

Originally Posted by OSherman
..until there is a kit (non-418) released with said suspension i know its not allowed, or until officially deemed legal by Fred.. like in the past.
How far do you take that rule then? My TB04 Pro II that came with 418 Suspension arms, but not the carbon reinforced ones. Does that mean you have to run the softer ones? What about C-Hubs? can the 6 degree one only be used on the TB04 and no other cars?

I have a TB03 with 418 arms. Not because I think there is an advantage, but because I built it from parts and not from kit. If that's a problem... someone please tell me now.

All this rule talk has reminded me of why I didn't even participate in the TCS for years. From the outside looking in it just seemed so strict and serious... Last year was my first two TCS races. I found it to be a fun learning experience with much camaraderie and where common sense ruled the day... long may it continue
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Old 03-03-2015, 02:32 PM
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I think most of the rules are pretty clear but there are some key points this year that probably will be benefited from a TCS rule Q&A maybe on the Tamiya website. Things I can think of for touring cars at least are:

1. Can Tamiya new generation of suspension parts be used on older platforms mainly the new arms and new sway bars. TA06 and TB04 can use these for sure because they come in kit forms. Older cars can be fitted but will it be allowed? Same with the new rear uprights with one one holes on it for 418.

2. Can TB04, TB03, and evo 6 parts be interchanged? For example it is desirable to run TB04 short shock tower and short TRF shocks on TB03 to reduce center of gravity. Evo 6 shocks are also a great option as it's big bore and short. TB04 ring gear have a high spot and cause it to not able to achieve smoothness so running TB03 ring and sun gear is what lots of people did. Some also preferred the TB04 gear diff and use it in TB03.

3. Can we use the new C hub with bigger hole on older cars. The new one have a 6 degree version never mentioned on the setup sheets of older cars.

One of the issue tamiya faces right now is newer cars are not necessarily competitive or have some quality issues. TA06 drives great but will suffer in straight line speed. TB04 is a promising design but chassis comes warped and the ring gears are not smooth. If the newer cars are more competitive and better finished then you won't see too many issues with people adapting new parts onto older platforms and cause regulation issues.

Ultimately allowing kit bashing for parts will make Tamiya tons more money I suppose but will also raise some concerns for policing the rules. I'm not sure how the internal ratio rule can be policed to be honest.
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Old 03-03-2015, 02:39 PM
  #19663  
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best way to look at it (as i do, because ive been bit a few times before) if its not included in a kit of equal build level (i.e. TB0/TA0 vs TRF), then dont try and add it...

For example, the 418 is a TRF chassis, the TB0/TA0 are not.. so, until they release a TA0/TB0 kit (which is usually the 'PRO' version) with parts you desire to install, dont do it... period.

Stiffer Carbon Reinforced versions of already released 'plastic' parts are always allowed. Assuming previously mentioned holds true..
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
Stiffer Carbon Reinforced versions of already released 'plastic' parts are always allowed.
That would be a great line to add to a TCS Rules FAQ...
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
best way to look at it (as i do, because ive been bit a few times before) if its not included in a kit of equal build level (i.e. TB0/TA0 vs TRF), then dont try and add it...
That raises another question for me, would that mean I couldn't run DCJs on a TB03?

Edit: I was a bit quick. "Build level"... got it... so since I have a TA06 kit that came with DCJ, it's ok to use on TB03. Which would be reasonable.

Last edited by torg; 03-03-2015 at 09:04 PM.
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