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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 12-15-2014, 07:22 PM
  #19396  
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Maybe the TCS Nats should be held just before IIC in Vegas on that new rug and new layout.
That would be about as close as you can get to Japan's gig and no hometown advantage cuz no matter where else you think it should be run, hometown will have an advantage.
Hell, I was born in Maryland and have no desire to travel back there, not even to race.
I am just kidding of course
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:47 PM
  #19397  
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Originally Posted by SMcD
Why would TCS run their national champ race elsewhere? So, that it is the real representation of the talent that is here in the U.S. So that being the TCS U.S. National Champion means something. That is the reason.

C'mon, you telling us that Tamiya USA track locals do not have a local track advantage? Really? Fact is racers have to qualify for the nats. Beyond that, going to Japan is all about winning at the 'local track' on race day.

Not saying you guys don't have talent. Look at the Japan trip sheets. Mostly local guys going to the worlds. I may wager that some of the guys 'earning' their trip to the worlds race 1 or 2 tracks...

Then, you get to Japan, and the TCS Worlds is held inside a hotel on carpet...

Just askin'
Then there are us non locals that go to the Nats because it is in California. I've been enough times where I feel like one of the locals, and although it's not every year like I used to do, it is still an awesome event. You'll never understand the appeal till you go do the race.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:22 PM
  #19398  
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Originally Posted by SMcD
Why would TCS run their national champ race elsewhere? So, that it is the real representation of the talent that is here in the U.S. So that being the TCS U.S. National Champion means something. That is the reason.

C'mon, you telling us that Tamiya USA track locals do not have a local track advantage? Really? Fact is racers have to qualify for the nats. Beyond that, going to Japan is all about winning at the 'local track' on race day.

Not saying you guys don't have talent. Look at the Japan trip sheets. Mostly local guys going to the worlds. I may wager that some of the guys 'earning' their trip to the worlds race 1 or 2 tracks...

Then, you get to Japan, and the TCS Worlds is held inside a hotel on carpet...

Just askin'
I raced SCCA for 10 years. Qualified for the Nationals at Road Atlanta a few times, where it was held year, after year, after year, after year. Now, take what you think it would cost to race the Tamiya Nats. Now compare to the Runoffs at Atlanta, it was a 2.5 week trip to trailer your car from California to Georgia (lots of gas and a few nights hotel stays), spend a week at the track, hotel rooms and meals then pack up and drive back home. And we had a little track called Riverside Raceway in our back yard that held IMSA, Can-Am, Nascar, Trans-Am and even a Formula 1 race. Nationals still ran at Road Atlanta. Oh yeah, and this was Amateur Road Racing.

Just get tired of the annual whine (cheese is extra) every year on this thread about how TCS Nationals should be held in the Mid-West or East Coast or anywhere other than at Tamiya's on track so the Tamiya locals don't have the advantage. Ever stopped to think how much it would cost Tamiya to send the staff they have at the Nationals (probably 8-10 people) just to run at your local track ? I can't speak for all classes at this years Nats but last I checked, Nathan Weir who won GT-1 is not a local. And in F1 class that I run, yeah a local won. Cuda also happened to have finished 2nd the last 2 or three years in a row while Rob King in second and Steve Hickman in third, last I checked, were not locals. Just sayin....

Panda
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW
Hmmm. A lot of people may say yes to this, but I know full well half of you will also say NO. "Oh no way! I'm not buying anything I can only use once" "I want to use the items I can use for my local club racing activities".

I agree with you Fred and think I think the "No's" would be way more than half. The idea of buying a motor and batteries you would use once or twice a year and absolutely no where else is not the most appealing.

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Old 12-16-2014, 06:22 AM
  #19400  
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I raced SCCA for 10 years. Qualified for the Nationals at Road Atlanta a few times, where it was held year, after year, after year, after year. Now, take what you think it would cost to race the Tamiya Nats. Now compare to the Runoffs at Atlanta, it was a 2.5 week trip to trailer your car from California to Georgia (lots of gas and a few nights hotel stays), spend a week at the track, hotel rooms and meals then pack up and drive back home. And we had a little track called Riverside Raceway in our back yard that held IMSA, Can-Am, Nascar, Trans-Am and even a Formula 1 race. Nationals still ran at Road Atlanta. Oh yeah, and this was Amateur Road Racing.

Just get tired of the annual whine (cheese is extra) every year on this thread about how TCS Nationals should be held in the Mid-West or East Coast or anywhere other than at Tamiya's on track so the Tamiya locals don't have the advantage. Ever stopped to think how much it would cost Tamiya to send the staff they have at the Nationals (probably 8-10 people) just to run at your local track ? I can't speak for all classes at this years Nats but last I checked, Nathan Weir who won GT-1 is not a local. And in F1 class that I run, yeah a local won. Cuda also happened to have finished 2nd the last 2 or three years in a row while Rob King in second and Steve Hickman in third, last I checked, were not locals. Just sayin....

Panda
The advantage that is gained by being local is not just geographic, it is due to hard work. The non locals that made the podium have gone multiple years and have also been known to pretest before the event to figure out their setups. I did a pretest this year, unfortunately I was not able to make it back out for the race as I had planned. Am already planning to go in 2015, can't wait, gonna dethrone the Panda in concourse
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:23 AM
  #19401  
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Originally Posted by FMW
Hmmm. A lot of people may say yes to this, but I know full well half of you will also say NO. "Oh no way! I'm not buying anything I can only use once" "I want to use the items I can use for my local club racing activities".

Fred, you've been in this business long enough to know that no matter what you decide, someone is going to jump up and down screaming.

My reason for going to a Tamiya system is it completely eliminates any question about the motors. There's no motor of the week issue. In M-chassis, any slight motor advantage is big. I'll take my buddy Carl as an example. He's a very good racer and does his homework. At the Jackson TCS race he ran a Wurks R1 motor. He made some comments on RC Tech about how good the motor was. Last month I was at my local off road track talking about motors and someone commented "how did the wurks motors pass tech?" Now I know for a fact that Carl doesn't cheat, but like I said any slight motor advantage shows up big in a class like mini.

I just wanted to say that, but I'll race whichever way the rule goes. I already have the wurks website set up as a favorite!

Panda, I think if you took a really good poll of all the racers, it would probably come out 50/50. There are good arguments for both sides.
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
Maybe the TCS Nats should be held just before IIC in Vegas on that new rug and new layout.
That would be about as close as you can get to Japan's gig and no hometown advantage cuz no matter where else you think it should be run, hometown will have an advantage.
Hell, I was born in Maryland and have no desire to travel back there, not even to race.
I am just kidding of course
That's not a bad idea at all. Thanks for constructive feedback
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:58 PM
  #19403  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
The advantage that is gained by being local is not just geographic, it is due to hard work. The non locals that made the podium have gone multiple years and have also been known to pretest before the event to figure out their setups. I did a pretest this year, unfortunately I was not able to make it back out for the race as I had planned. Am already planning to go in 2015, can't wait, gonna dethrone the Panda in concourse
I think I will skip concourse at 2015 Nats so you will have a hollow victory. Seriously, look forward to seeing you at Nats and IIC in 2015.

Panda
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Old 12-17-2014, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I think I will skip concourse at 2015 Nats so you will have a hollow victory. Seriously, look forward to seeing you at Nats and IIC in 2015.

Panda
I know you better than that, you can't stay away. I am coming for you Panda Bobby
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Old 12-17-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I know you better than that, you can't stay away. I am coming for you Panda Bobby
Bad Brad from Motown:
When will you have Williams/Martini F1 decal sheet available for purchase?
I want to do Massa/ Botas F1 Williams cars for the 2015 TCS Season!!
SH
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:26 AM
  #19406  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I know you better than that, you can't stay away. I am coming for you Panda Bobby
Am I being banned from purchases of your awesome F1 and sports car decal sets now ? Maybe I should enter next year under a pseudonym ?

Panda
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Old 12-19-2014, 02:06 PM
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It's pretty hard to beat a guy on his own pool table.

That's the Tamiya track.

I'm lucky enough to have one of the nicest asphalt tracks in the country to work on my stuff in the summer. The only problem is that it is much larger than Tamiya so the setup is a little different. Tamiya requires more rotation and good handling under braking.

The surface has also been different almost every year I have been there: no prep, then it needed a new seal coat, then it was re sealed and sprayed with sugar.

It's not that you can't do well, you just have to have help or experience, or both. This last year was the first time I got the car to a point where I could pretty much just dope the tires and go. Most of the past times I have been thrashing away. Unfortunately for me, Cuda's car was on another planet most of the weekend.

#1 tip I can give is record the details of your races and practices at home- temp, time of day, changes, what was right and wrong with your car, etc, etc, as much detail as you can get, and what all adjustments do for your car. Then if you come to the nationals, you can use that info to make changes for the race. Also keep good records during practice so you can keep up with the changes as the track gets hotter and cooler.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:50 PM
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I was keepin an eye on you Mr. K
Woulda been stupid not to.
So next year?

And my pool table is purple too
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I raced SCCA for 10 years. Qualified for the Nationals at Road Atlanta a few times, where it was held year, after year, after year, after year. Now, take what you think it would cost to race the Tamiya Nats. Now compare to the Runoffs at Atlanta, it was a 2.5 week trip to trailer your car from California to Georgia (lots of gas and a few nights hotel stays), spend a week at the track, hotel rooms and meals then pack up and drive back home. And we had a little track called Riverside Raceway in our back yard that held IMSA, Can-Am, Nascar, Trans-Am and even a Formula 1 race. Nationals still ran at Road Atlanta. Oh yeah, and this was Amateur Road Racing.

Just get tired of the annual whine (cheese is extra) every year on this thread about how TCS Nationals should be held in the Mid-West or East Coast or anywhere other than at Tamiya's on track so the Tamiya locals don't have the advantage. Ever stopped to think how much it would cost Tamiya to send the staff they have at the Nationals (probably 8-10 people) just to run at your local track ? I can't speak for all classes at this years Nats but last I checked, Nathan Weir who won GT-1 is not a local. And in F1 class that I run, yeah a local won. Cuda also happened to have finished 2nd the last 2 or three years in a row while Rob King in second and Steve Hickman in third, last I checked, were not locals. Just sayin....

Panda
This is spot on.

I don't say a lot anymore, but I get sick of this "local advantage" stuff every year. Ideally, it would be awesome to be able to rotate tracks yearly, but the fact is that the economics of scale don't work out. Also, unlike real racing where sanctioning bodies will run events at tracks owned by others, Tamiya has their own track 15-20 minutes from their U.S. headquarters. Why would the company who has their own track, want to pay to fly people, equipment, awards, prizes, etc. to run their event at someone else's track that they would then also have to most likely pay for? It also allows for Tamiya to have more control over vendors (familiarity with food and local hobby shops) and control over the condition of the track. Any issues with paint, surface imperfections can all be addressed quickly without having to try and get a track/shop owner to make quick fixes and work out some reimbursement plan.

The fact is that this will not change. Unless Tamiya sell the track, they will run nats at their own track. There is no good argument to justify all of the additional expenses to go anywhere else. The ultimate prize for a trip to Japan should not be something easy. Ask all of the winners how much time, energy and money went into the prep to compete and win the Nats and they would all agree it would have been cheaper to simply buy a ticket to Japan. As the saying goes, if it was easy, anyone could do it.

I understand the frustration and lamenting the fact that your circumstances are more challenging, but you simply have to make the best of your situation. As it was pointed out, as the people who went to Japan to compete if it was fair to run on a different surface, with rules they get a month prior to traveling, against guys who do it every year, and run the same rules for the entire year. It's not ideal, but they still work as hard as they can to do the best they can.

Finally, I will say this; I think it is insulting to the people who have won, who are locals to basically say they only won because they are a local, and discounting all of the hard work they put in.
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:54 PM
  #19410  
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Originally Posted by robk
The surface has also been different almost every year I have been there: no prep, then it needed a new seal coat, then it was re sealed and sprayed with sugar.
The surface is different every weekend... .

hot, cold, humid, dry, windy, dusty, pollen, sunny, overcast, marine layer in the A.M.- sun in the P.M. too sticky, not sticky enough, soot from wildfires, rained heavy this week, hasn't rained for months... everyone running sauce X today so your sauce Y won't work, Rod sprayed today so it's super sticky, Rod sprayed last week so there is a maple buildup this week Got your car dialed in last weekends controlled practice? tough, it's 20F cooler this weekend... etc. etc.

That's at least my experience, I could be wrong...
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