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Old 12-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #18466  
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Fred, this is just about the Mini motor rule.

Unless, I've missed something, depending on the motor you have, you will be able to run more timing on some motors than others. The Schuur motors have their max timing mark at 40 degrees. The Reedy I have is marked at 50. The Novak Ballistic in my collection is marked at 45.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to tech the motors if you just established a maximum timing spec?????? The way the rule is written now, you've effectively ruled out many motors. Whatever amount of advance you specify will be more equitable than the present rule as written.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:57 PM
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Last edited by Markus; 12-13-2013 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:11 PM
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I understand the concerns. At the same time I've come to find that physical motor timing on each brand is not apples to apples. If you limit the timing to 30 degrees (on all the motors) it is not going to make the speeds all equal. That's because each starting point from one manufacture to the next varies. Someone's labeled 40 may really be someone else's 45 and so on.

The main reason I limited the physical motor timing to the manufactures marked maximum was to prevent racers from going beyond and possibly burning up motors. The last thing I want is for the M-chassis class to turn into one run motor wars.

Also, keep in mind you can play around with tuned rotors to give different torque and RPM characteristics.

It's a new era for the M-chassis class. I'm sure everyone will have fun with it.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Fred, this is just about the Mini motor rule.

Unless, I've missed something, depending on the motor you have, you will be able to run more timing on some motors than others. The Schuur motors have their max timing mark at 40 degrees. The Reedy I have is marked at 50. The Novak Ballistic in my collection is marked at 45.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to tech the motors if you just established a maximum timing spec?????? The way the rule is written now, you've effectively ruled out many motors. Whatever amount of advance you specify will be more equitable than the present rule as written.
Unfortunately, this isnt really possible because the timing marks on all motors are not the same. Some motors, such as Orca, have built in timing at 0, so 20* on that is vastly different than 20* on a Reedy. Some motors can also be advanced past the marks on them as well. Some motors such as the team powers dont have the degrees of timing marked on them at all, just a number of marks to line up to.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW
I understand the concerns. At the same time I've come to find that physical motor timing on each brand is not apples to apples. If you limit the timing to 30 degrees (on all the motors) it is not going to make the speeds all equal. That's because each starting point from one manufacture to the next varies. Someone's labeled 40 may really be someone else's 45 and so on.

.....

Agreed!!
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:28 PM
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only problem im having with the rules.. which exhibition class shall i run? they all look so fun..

this year will make for some very interesting racing yet again..
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:37 PM
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1/12 Mr. O!!!!

Guys, this has come up via a PM and I want to publicly make one thing clear.

If the ESC or motor you have or intend to get for Christmas is not on the ROAR list then it is not LEGAL. I've noticed there are a few manufactures that "say" sanctioned and approved, but to me that means nothing until ROAR updates their respective list. That's what we will be going by to make things as crystal clear as possible. So, if you have a favorite brand that has a wind you like and it's pending approval I would suggest you call or email the company to speed along the approval process.

Fred
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:51 PM
  #18473  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
Agreed!!
Okay, I'm very new to the B/L motor scene so will defer to my more experienced friends.

With that being said, does anyone know which motors have their timing marks at 50 degrees. I've already spent enough $$$$ on B/L motors to have purchased 20 Silvercans. Crap, $90 for the motor then another $40-50 for a tuning rotor. This is not turning out to be cheap.
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Fred, this is just about the Mini motor rule.

Unless, I've missed something, depending on the motor you have, you will be able to run more timing on some motors than others. The Schuur motors have their max timing mark at 40 degrees. The Reedy I have is marked at 50. The Novak Ballistic in my collection is marked at 45.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to tech the motors if you just established a maximum timing spec?????? The way the rule is written now, you've effectively ruled out many motors. Whatever amount of advance you specify will be more equitable than the present rule as written.
As TCS comes out of the dark ages and starts to follow the standard rules that the whole RC world follows , I think TCS will be OK.

Originally Posted by FMW
1/12 Mr. O!!!!

Guys, this has come up via a PM and I want to publicly make one thing clear.

If the ESC or motor you have or intend to get for Christmas is not on the ROAR list then it is not LEGAL. I've noticed there are a few manufactures that "say" sanctioned and approved, but to me that means nothing until ROAR updates their respective list. That's what we will be going by to make things as crystal clear as possible. So, if you have a favorite brand that has a wind you like and it's pending approval I would suggest you call or email the company to speed along the approval process.

Fred
Motors come through approval much more frequently then speedo . This is a real time ROAR forum page for motor approvals . This is in addition to the normal website page .

http://roarracing.org/4rmb/forumdisp...tor-Approvals/

ECS's approvals list is on the website .

http://www.roarracing.com/?page_id=737http://
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:25 PM
  #18475  
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So as of right now the Tekin Rs Spec isn't ROAR legal...any chance it will be by January?


And is 1/12 an exhibition class?
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:33 PM
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happy to see johnson's on the decline.

now we just need to figure out how to pull off a 24h race with brushless -- fred we need to talk!
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:16 PM
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Well, this is good news
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:23 AM
  #18478  
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Default brushless mini

Originally Posted by Granpa
Fred, this is just about the Mini motor rule.

Unless, I've missed something, depending on the motor you have, you will be able to run more timing on some motors than others. The Schuur motors have their max timing mark at 40 degrees. The Reedy I have is marked at 50. The Novak Ballistic in my collection is marked at 45.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to tech the motors if you just established a maximum timing spec?????? The way the rule is written now, you've effectively ruled out many motors. Whatever amount of advance you specify will be more equitable than the present rule as written.
I agree with Granpa on this one. What has not been mentioned is minis are locked at a 6.0 final drive ratio ( I think ) with a small 60d tire, and 1300 gram wt. This will become a motor and $ war to be in the top 10 because the motor is the only variable to adjust and change. As far as timing adjust you can push these way past the marks on any motor and it will bearly get warm (in a mini). So which motor does the timing sticker goes the farthest? and who has the highest rpm? This is what I will be looking for. It was much easier to dyno a $16 motor, But I realize we would catch up with the times at some point. It should be up the racer how far he can adjust the timing because all these motors do have different max limits onthe sticker or marks. There is no industy standard.
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Core Creations
So as of right now the Tekin Rs Spec isn't ROAR legal...any chance it will be by January?


And is 1/12 an exhibition class?
That's what I want to know. If 1/12 is an exhibition class I will finally finish mine. I would live to run it as a 3rd class.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:02 AM
  #18480  
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Very disappointed to see Tamiya went with a 21.5 for Mini for the following:
- Tamiya should have realized its own brushless and speedo without the ability to modify either
- 21.5 with a fixed pinion of 20t and 60mm diameter tire is going to be much slower. F1 chassis have the flexibility to gear up and make them faster
- without a spec motor and speedo you've made it next to near impossible for a tech guy to determine legality. Rumor is there are speedo where software updates can increase timing while still in blinky mode. And we were all told by the manufacturers that brushless systems would level the playing field.

Question: are silver cans and brushless going to compete together for 2014 or does everyone need to switch to brushless.

If we running brushless, who makes the fastest 21.5 and best speedo for this class... Sorry to be so critical to Tamiya but anyone who knows me knows I'm a big advocate for spec racing and this has just made Mini racing a little more complicated. A local track I'm working with, we're thinking of scrapping blinky class to eliminate the voodoo that we're hearing about with speedo's
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