Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Racing Forum
Tamiya Championship Series >

Tamiya Championship Series

Like Tree828Likes

Tamiya Championship Series

Old 07-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #18136  
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Originally Posted by edhchoe
I bought a set of Pre glued S grip tires from TQ and it looks like those were made by TQ because the packaging did not have typical Tamiya tag. Will those be still acceptable?

It is OK to break them in before I go to the race, right?
So far, all the new generation sets that have come thru do not have the Tamiya label. Rest assured that TQ probably did not assemble them. It's probably better that you run them first cause we've been having a lot of glue joint failures with them.
Granpa is offline  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:51 PM
  #18137  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (11)
 
Kevin CBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: "Racing Budget" is an oxymoron
Posts: 3,984
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by edhchoe
I bought a set of Pre glued S grip tires from TQ and it looks like those were made by TQ because the packaging did not have typical Tamiya tag. Will those be still acceptable?

It is OK to break them in before I go to the race, right?
The tires you got are Tamiya USA glued tires. TQ is my home track and I know the owner Sean well. He has enough trouble gluing his own race tires. They are not gluing up their own and selling as Tamiya premounts.

The tag is different as it is the header card Tamiya USA uses for USA only made items. Do not confuse with the standard header card from Tamiya Japan. Also, the USA made P/N's are 4 digits only, Tamiya Japan is 5 digit.

Panda
Kevin CBR is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:20 AM
  #18138  
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 141
Default

Originally Posted by edhchoe
I bought a set of Pre glued S grip tires from TQ and it looks like those were made by TQ because the packaging did not have typical Tamiya tag. Will those be still acceptable?

It is OK to break them in before I go to the race, right?
The current supply of pre-mount M-Chassis and Touring Car tires have "bulk" packaging as a cost saving measure. So there is no header card, just a label. There was a cost increase on the tires and to avoid passing it on to the TCS participants, I eliminated the header card on the packaging. Additional cost was saved with better freight planning and the remaining cost was absorbed by Tamiya America. Mr. Makino, our VP of operations, approved absorbing the remaining cost of the tires so please thank him at the Finals.
David J. is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:46 AM
  #18139  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by David J.
I have been evaluating the situation with the "old" and "current" batch of S-Grip Radial control tires and have determined that in fairness for the Finals this August, tires that can be used will be to limited to only the current supply of pre-mounts S-Grip Radials (item 1016). Due to the lack of availability to all competitors, the older "harder" compound will not be allowed during the finals. Fortunately, it is not difficult to tell them apart. Unlike the regional regulations, for the finals, the other pre-mount tires 1028 (60D Type-A w/foam insert soft) and 1029 (60D Type-A w/foam insert hard) are not allowed. The reason is to control the expense to the drivers. Everyone running the same tire eliminates the need to buy and test multiple tire options and combinations.
David:

OK, so do I understand you correctly, that in the course of one day you have gone from 1016's are legal to the situation that, if we have Tamiya USA Item 1016 tires, preassembled by Tamiya, bought because they were long ago declared the official mini tire for TCS, some are now legal, and some are not legal? I'm all for fairness, have long ago accepted the control tire concept, but if you're not making everyone buy there set at the event (as is typically done in a control tire situation), it creates some real problems.

Just how do we tell 1016's apart exactly - it seems that it is just by feel? If it is by feel, just what is the feel - I suppose you have to compare them against a reference set you "know" is "current" and a set you "know" is "old" - and just how do I do that without knowing and having in hand a confirmed reference "current" set?

Is there any external mark to look at and say one is different from another - such as when you look at the package before purchase (if you are lucky enough to have a local retailer stocking them), so one can make sure they will be legal tires? (I think I understand from your post 20 minutes ago that the newest sets of 1016s, "current" tires, now no longer even have a Tamiya USA white header card, but I suspect that some sets of 1016s with Tamiya USA header cards of 1016 were also "current" material.)

And, more importantly, just how is one supposed to order sets from your retailer with any confidence that they are "current" rather than what you call "old" sets??? (I'm sorry, I guess my phone and internet lines are old fashion, cuz I can't figure out a way to reach into my computer/phone to cop a feel (:-) before purchase!) For example, now that you have announced the rule change, I could spend a $100 today ordering up two sets of tires from lets say Speedtech RC (but they list them as backordered), spend a bunch of money to travel to CA for Nationals but not be allowed to race because what I receive by buying today could well be "old" but brand new sets!!

Or do I have to abandon your retailers to now only order from the Tamiya USA website - (which says 1016 are in stock)? Am I guaranteed that any tire I buy today online from Tamiya USA website will be a "current" version and legal for use? And if I spend that $150 (a previously unnecessary expense, I had lots of 1016s - so much for controlling cost of racing ) to order from Tamiya today (a set for practice, a set for racing, and since it sounds like the "current" version is softer it may well wear out faster, an extra set), are we confident that the rule isn't going to change back again next week? It was just a few weeks ago that all 1016's and in fact pre mount slicks (1028 & 1029 as recently as 7/15/13) were legal for Nationals.

I can't say that I like the topsy turvy nature of TCS rules being changed at the last minute. And to say absolutely nothing about what you are doing to those who, having prepared ahead of time, have several brand "new" sets of 1016's that may be "current" or may be "old" and now illegal. Or to those that have saved their already run but not destroyed 1016 sets to use in practice.

If you must go with what seems like a crazy rule change, will Tamiya now exchange brand new in Tamiya package but illegal "old" 1016 sets for brand new "current" sets on location at Nationals?

Please reply so that I (and others) can know if I/we have to order up new tires directly from Tamiya USA today so I/we can get them in time for the Nationals race.

Last edited by minidriver; 07-17-2013 at 08:58 AM.
minidriver is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #18140  
Tech Regular
 
SilverShelby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Huntsville,AL
Posts: 466
Default

Why don't we just do a hand out car????in mini
Then everything fair.....
SilverShelby is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #18141  
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 141
Default

Originally Posted by minidriver
David:

OK, so do I understand you correctly, that in the course of one day you have gone from 1016's are legal to the situation that, if we have Tamiya USA Item 1016 tires, preassembled by Tamiya, bought because they were long ago declared the official mini tire for TCS, some are now legal, and some are not legal? I'm all for fairness, have long ago accepted the control tire concept, but if you're not making everyone buy there set at the event (as is typically done in a control tire situation), it creates some real problems.
The supply of “old” 1016 tire were depleted mid last year. All distributors were sold out and likely all the retail stores as well. It’s extremely unlikely to order a set of 1016s from any retailer today and end up with an “old” set. However, as unlikely as this is, it is possible so we will gladly exchange your “new” set of “old” spec 1016s for the current tire at the Finals. Just don’t expect a used set to be exchanged. Or, you can choose to keep them for next season. For all regional events including next year, all 1016s are legal. Tamiya America has no control over the different compounds from batch to batch of the tire and we can only move forward with what we are supplied. In the interest of fairness for the finals, I made the decision to take additional action to insure the event was not about the “haves and the have nots”.

Originally Posted by minidriver
Just how do we tell 1016's apart exactly - it seems that it is just by feel? If it is by feel, just what is the feel - I suppose you have to compare them against a reference set you "know" is "current" and a set you "know" is "old" - and just how do I do that without knowing and having in hand a confirmed reference "current" set?

Is there any external mark to look at and say one is different from another - such as when you look at the package before purchase (if you are lucky enough to have a local retailer stocking them), so one can make sure they will be legal tires? (I think I understand from your post 20 minutes ago that the newest sets of 1016s, "current" tires, now no longer even have a Tamiya USA white header card, but I suspect that some sets of 1016s with Tamiya USA header cards of 1016 were also "current" material.)
No, there is no “visual” difference of the tires themselves. Newly purchased tires can easily be identified by the packaging they came in.

All current 1016 will be in bulk packaging and all old 1016 will have a header card. So if any of the tires you just purchased have header cards, you can exchange them in August or keep them for next season. If you’ve bought any of these tires recently, they most likely came without header cards, which means they are the current batch. You can compare the firmness of these to any used sets to identify the “old” tires. There is a clear difference so it should be easy to tell them apart. Worst case scenario is if you were planning to not purchase any new tires for the finals and you arrive only to find that all your tires are illegal, then you will need to purchase tires at the event (which will be the current batch). We will be checking all tires during the finals. It will easily be detected by hand but we will also have a shore durometer with on hand samples for additional confirmation. Initial cost, should someone have to re-buy tires for the finals would be more. However, they would not need to buy tires for next seasons regionals so this cost should balance out.



Originally Posted by minidriver
And, more importantly, just how is one supposed to order sets from your retailer with any confidence that they are "current" rather than what you call "old" sets??? (I'm sorry, I guess my phone and internet lines are old fashion, cuz I can't figure out a way to reach into my computer/phone to cop a feel (:-) before purchase!) For example, now that you have announced the rule change, I could spend a $100 today ordering up two sets of tires from lets say Speedtech RC (but they list them as backordered), spend a bunch of money to travel to CA for Nationals but not be allowed to race because what I receive by buying today could well be "old" but brand new sets!!
The supply of “old” 1016 tire were depleted mid last year. All distributors were sold out and likely all the retail stores as well. It’s extremely unlikely to order a set of 1016s from any retailer today and end up with an “old” set. However, as unlikely as this is, it is possible so we will gladly exchange your “new” set of “old” spec 1016s for the current tire at the Finals. Just don’t expect a used set to be exchanged. Or, you can choose to keep them for next season.

Originally Posted by minidriver
Or do I have to abandon your retailers to now only order from the Tamiya USA website - (which says 1016 are in stock)? Am I guaranteed that any tire I buy today online from Tamiya USA website will be a "current" version and legal for use? And if I spend that $150 (a previously unnecessary expense, I had lots of 1016s - so much for controlling cost of racing ) to order from Tamiya today (a set for practice, a set for racing, and since it sounds like the "current" version is softer it may well wear out faster, an extra set), are we confident that the rule isn't going to change back again next week? It was just a few weeks ago that all 1016's and in fact pre mount slicks (1028 & 1029 as recently as 7/15/13) were legal for Nationals.
I would recommend going through your normal dealer as you are more or less guaranteed that you will get a current batch of tires. If not:

The supply of “old” 1016 tire were depleted mid last year. All distributors were sold out and likely all the retail stores as well. It’s extremely unlikely to order a set of 1016s from any retailer today and end up with an “old” set. However, as unlikely as this is, it is possible so we will gladly exchange your “new” set of “old” spec 1016s for the current tire at the Finals. Just don’t expect a used set to be exchanged. Or, you can choose to keep them for next season.

Initial cost, should someone have to re-buy tires for the finals would be more. However, they would not need to buy tires for next seasons regionals so this cost should balance out. If the old tires were to be allowed for the finals, it would create a “black market” (probably already has) for these tires due to what is at stake which becomes a cost issue, if you can even find old sets to buy, which makes it a “haves vs have nots”. Neither is acceptable for the finals.



Originally Posted by minidriver
I can't say that I like the topsy turvy nature of TCS rules being changed at the last minute. And to say absolutely nothing about what you are doing to those who, having prepared ahead of time, have several brand "new" sets of 1016's that may be "current" or may be "old" and now illegal. Or to those that have saved their already run but not destroyed 1016 sets to use in practice.
I apologize to all the drivers for this situation as it is not intentional and certainly not ideal. I understand that my choice on how to proceed with this circumstance will not please everyone but I am confident that this decision serves the best overall outcome for not just overall cost to the drivers but fairness for the trip to Japan.

Originally Posted by minidriver
If you must go with what seems like a crazy rule change, will Tamiya now exchange brand new in Tamiya package but illegal "old" 1016 sets for brand new "current" sets on location at Nationals?
Yes, we will gladly exchange new in the package "old" 1016 sets with "new" inventory.
David J. is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:04 PM
  #18142  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

David:

Thanks for the quick response.

We mini drivers can now know exactly what to look for to buy or what we can use for 2013 Nationals. The new-in-package exchange program (thank you Tamiya) should solve the unfortunate situation for those who have already invested in 1016s for the event that turn out to be 1016s of the "old" variety, or for those who might now get sold to them the "old" stock 1016s that have been ruled out for this year. It supports your Tamiya dealer network by not saddling them with no longer "current" versions of 1016s as deadweight inventory, and allows people to buy with confidence from them. While your distributers might have sold out of "old" material, I'm fairly sure there are a number of retail stores (like my closet shop carrying Tamiya parts - 2 hours away) that have white header card 1016s left over from year to year regional TCS races - retailers in the hobby seem to have their share of inventory that have celebrated birthdays on the wall.

And of course it means all will be on equal footing (at least tire wise - sorry about the pun) for another great TCS National event.

And us old timer TCS folk can lighten our suitcases a bit and leave the old partly used 1016's at home for the week of Nationals - I realize there was no good solution to the partially used up tires aspect and you clearly couldn't be expected to take those back.

Thanks again. Looking forward to seeing my Tamiya friends in CA next month!
minidriver is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #18143  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Question for the California based mini drivers:

Has the track resurface changed the equation for M-03 vs. M-05 choice for Nationals. It seems that the M-03 was almost always the FWD of choice for the CA track - has the resurface brought the M-05 back into contention?

Has the track resurface brought the M-06 RWD back into contention equation? On the old surface, it had always been only the VERY brave (or other adjective) running (or trying to run) the RWD competitively.
minidriver is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #18144  
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Originally Posted by minidriver
Question for the California based mini drivers:

Has the track resurface changed the equation for M-03 vs. M-05 choice for Nationals. It seems that the M-03 was almost always the FWD of choice for the CA track - has the resurface brought the M-05 back into contention?

Has the track resurface brought the M-06 RWD back into contention equation? On the old surface, it had always been only the VERY brave (or other adjective) running (or trying to run) the RWD competitively.
With the resurfacing and the "new" S-Grips, the two models are pretty equal. The 0.5 sec advantage the 03 had is pretty much gone. Now it's pretty much a preference choice rather than one having a measurable advantage.

There are some 06 RWD that are going quite well, but they are in the hands of some TCS veterans. I don't believe they are seriously considering racing them. The 06, at least locally, has evolved into a car to run for "giggles" not as a competitive racer
Granpa is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #18145  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Thanks Granpa! I'll bring both to try. With the softer S-grips, the higher center of gravity of the M03 may be an issue that helps the M-05 even the playing field.

While the M-06 on asphalt may be a "giggles" car, and that was my past experience as well, they are serious or superior contenders on carpet! But on asphalt, even if they were dead even on a time trial basis, I feel the M-06 is a no go - in the rough and tumble racing of mini, an m06 colliding with an M03/M05 almost always loses out to the bowling ball like FWD mini - the M06 goes spinning off, the m03/mo5 gets to plow the road ahead.
minidriver is offline  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:59 PM
  #18146  
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 141
Default

Hey TCS Racers. I wanted to give everyone an important heads up that if you haven't ordered or purchased your spare parts, hop-ups, tires etc. for the TCS Finals in August, I would recommend doing it soon. In the next couple weeks, our warehouse will begin an inventory count so there will be an unknown "black out" time period as far as order fulfillment leading up to the TCS Finals. Please let your dealer know not to wait until the last minute to place an order because they may not receive it in time for the Finals.
David J. is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:02 AM
  #18147  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,862
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

TCS this weekend at Jackson July 21st!

The hobby shop will be there!

Those of you who asked me to hold items are secured. I have lots of Mini tire radial premount, Only a few left for touring and a couple for F1 so if you have legal tires bring them. Thanks


This was posted by John Brown

Give him a call if you need something, to make sure he brings it

718-727-2194
Al Sodano is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:29 PM
  #18148  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,277
Default

Is the track open at Tamiya this Saturday?
Juan Aveytia is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #18149  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
minidriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Can anyone tell me for sure whether the new Ferrari 458 body has the premarked dimples in the body to accept the optional wing set? To be TCS legal with the optional wing set , the body must be premarked with the dimples.
minidriver is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 04:08 PM
  #18150  
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 141
Default

Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
Is the track open at Tamiya this Saturday?
Track should be open.

Originally Posted by minidriver
Can anyone tell me for sure whether the new Ferrari 458 body has the premarked dimples in the body to accept the optional wing set? To be TCS legal with the optional wing set , the body must be premarked with the dimples.
Yes, it has dimples so it's TCS legal to run the optional racing wing on that body.
David J. is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.