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Old 02-21-2013, 07:14 AM
  #17701  
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Originally Posted by kwkride
I don't agree with this at all. If you look at the Mini class, Erik Wippler was running more than a second quicker than our normal fast laps for club racing on that same layout. In fact the winner of the A main last night had a fast lap of 15.760 - Erik was running mid 14s. That is all because of the difference in driving skill. (This is not to pick on Erik or the Mini class, it's just an example of the difference in skill level)
Like I said if Tamiya remove the intermediate from the GT3 rule there will be no more discussion to have.

Jim I have a feeling you guys will get faster in mini.

Last edited by v_squared; 02-21-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:37 AM
  #17702  
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Eliminate the kits and the cherry picking will stop.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:02 AM
  #17703  
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Originally Posted by rcdave1
Question for thought.

Where does a race director draw the line and tell someone they are to skilled?
Is it general driving skill? More than 1 win in the class? Podium finish 2 or more times?

I myself have never raced GT3 nor do I plan on it, i'm very content with F1 and mini cooper.
But i will be involved with making this decision in an upcoming event.
Dave, it is based on general driving skill. If a driver is significantly faster than the rest of the drivers in the GT-3 or Spec Novice Class, they should be moved up. One way to confirm this would be if they also participated in any of the other classes that don't have skill level restriction such as M-Chassis, GT-2 etc... If they are in the A-Main in those classes and turning relatively competitive lap times, they should move up.

If a driver enters GT-3 and wins, I would look at the margin of victory. If it was really close and the top guys were in a battle to the end and the same drivers were significantly slower in the open classes, they're probably in the right class.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:31 AM
  #17704  
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Which is all great, unfortunately it is all in arrears. No race director is going to drop someone from a class once the day's racing has started. I think Mr. Banks asked the right (and pertinent) question: how does the race director know at the time of signup whether someone should be considered 'too good' for GT3?

I don't mean to single them out, but it's the most recent example we have: everyone knew that Charlie and Jimmie were experienced and expert caliber drivers. I've raced against and lost to/beaten both of them for years and they are GOOD. Yet the race director didn't tell them it was inappropriate for them to enter the GT3 class.

A rule that can't be quantified to some reasonable semblance of black and white is as good as no rule at all. And a rule that puts the rule-enforcer in the position of having to choose between shades of gray is unfair to all.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #17705  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Which is all great, unfortunately it is all in arrears. No race director is going to drop someone from a class once the day's racing has started. I think Mr. Banks asked the right (and pertinent) question: how does the race director know at the time of signup whether someone should be considered 'too good' for GT3?

I don't mean to single them out, but it's the most recent example we have: everyone knew that Charlie and Jimmie were experienced and expert caliber drivers. I've raced against and lost to/beaten both of them for years and they are GOOD. Yet the race director didn't tell them it was inappropriate for them to enter the GT3 class.

A rule that can't be quantified to some reasonable semblance of black and white is as good as no rule at all. And a rule that puts the rule-enforcer in the position of having to choose between shades of gray is unfair to all.
A good race director usually has an understanding of the drivers that attend their events and should encourage the drivers to participate in the appropriate classes before the event begins. However, there's always the drivers the director is not familiar with and if it's apparent that the driver is above the specified skill level after the event has started, they should be notified that they will be moved up in future events.

Once the TCS Racing License program becomes active, the classes each licensed driver can participate in will be pre-determined and this will greatly reduce this issue. Adjustments will still need to be made as the drivers skill level improves (we want improvement ) but it will be much easier for everyone, including the race directors.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:05 PM
  #17706  
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as in all racing drivers need to police themselves,
i would like to race in GT-3 with a ff03 but its not in the rules to do so,i had to but a motor and run GT-2. people know who they are and should act with the rules.
just my .02
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:20 PM
  #17707  
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Let (and may, [it will]) the sandbagging begin!!

I think David J is on the right track. I would call it 'driver certification' rather than 'driver's license' - same concept.

I ask again - who here running mini class has less than 300$ tied up in their car excluding electronics? Nobody has answered yet... Yet, these guys are the one's that scream the loudest "cheap, cheap, cheap, newb, newb, newb -don't change the rules or they will have to spend big $$$$$$, We need to have affordable class for the new racer!"... LOL...

*stuffs pie-hole with popcorn...*

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Old 02-21-2013, 05:27 PM
  #17708  
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Originally Posted by SMcD
I ask again - who here running mini class has less than 300$ tied up in their car excluding electronics?
OK, I'll play
Tamiya Honda Ballade Sports Mugen M05 CR-X Pro Kit $155.00
Aluminum Steering Link $17.00
Bearings $20.00
1016 Pre-mounts $40.00
Futaba S3305 Out of my toolbox
I run the included Tamiya ESC and Silver can motor

Total $232.00
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:56 PM
  #17709  
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Toche.

This guy deserves the kit just because he has the cohones to run a basically stock kit. No hopup springs? Kit oil? Your receiver has built in BEC for the stock ESC? No titanium screws or hopup turnbuckles? Any goodies sitting in your box on the car?

We can make this a game!
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:13 PM
  #17710  
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Originally Posted by SMcD
Toche.

This guy deserves the kit just because he has the cohones to run a basically stock kit. No hopup springs? Kit oil? Your receiver has built in BEC for the stock ESC? No titanium screws or hopup turnbuckles? Any goodies sitting in your box on the car?

We can make this a game!
Actually I do have the old oil shocks off of my M03 on there. I think they were $15 a pair when I bought them so you could add $30. The stock ESC works fine. I don't need aluminum turnbuckles because I just bend them.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #17711  
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I guess I should tell you though. While I have been running the M05 for the past year. I am sitting here right now building an M06R with an M05 ball diff, aluminum steering link, and M03 universal shafts. It's not even assembled and I've broken your $300 mark.

I have seen a lot of used minis sold for $50 - $100 though. That's the route that I always recommend for new racers.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:16 PM
  #17712  
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Somebody gets it!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:40 AM
  #17713  
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Hey TCS Racers! Registration for an official TCS Racing License is now open!!! Here's the link to get registered!!! http://www.tamiyausa.com/tcs/driver/info.php
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:04 AM
  #17714  
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At the recent SNOWBIRD event...some individual were asked to move up from the armature class to the stock spec class due to the significant advantage of the skill and lap times....those individual are actually OK and accepted that request and completed the rest of the event to the faster class.

The same can be done on the GT3 TCS class...the race director will oversee this if there are complaint from the GT3 racer.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #17715  
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Originally Posted by David J.
Hey TCS Racers! Registration for an official TCS Racing License is now open!!! Here's the link to get registered!!! http://www.tamiyausa.com/tcs/driver/info.php
Thanks Dave! This should be helpful
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