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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 07-28-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by linger

Team: Silvercans are for vibrators.

That's PURE GOLD !
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by madjack
this needs to be your new signature

"Silvercans are for Vibrators"
Wow Doc could tune one hell of a vibrator|\!!!!!!
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
If there was one for sale at an affordable price, I'd buy one

Maybe i can interest you in this affordable Veyron..

Veyron....VROOOOMM!!!!
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Old 07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
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Seems to be a funny thing with motor limits in Spec and Stock class racing.

The only time it is an issue is when the motors are too slow for the class or not heavily controlled.

It seems to balance out when the limit is just enough and easy to attain.

Ultimate F1 (here I go again, but...) uses 21.5 no boost and proves to be just right. Never hear "Got killed down the straight." etc.
Carpet was a bit different story since traction was/is 100%.

Offroad 2 wheeldrive buggy with 17.5 no timing seems to have the same results, cars are pretty equal and it is enough power to move the cars well.
Not really a horsepower war in this class either.

I'm not big into the onroad scene other than the F1s but I recall the FF03 we ran a couple times were also pretty competitive with 21.5 motors as well.

Some input from the touring car guys concerning the non timing class would be useful here to help determine if 17.5 is enough motor to make it easy to attain a competitive package without resorting to trick of the week batteries and motor/esc packages.

Mini guys that just ran their enduro can input their thoughts on the 17.5 no boost along with the fixed/max gearing they were limited to.
Was 17.5 enough motor to determine that horsepower didn't decide the winner?

Is it possible to establish motor limits for Spec/Stock classes for onroad racing that let us just race and tune without being at a disadvantage due to horsepower?

When it's silvercans, policing is madatory unless of course it is among friends.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
im not worried about or complaining about the rules.. its about principal.. Race-intended motors, for race intended cars... my 'tuning to make faster' isnt directed solely to the drive train.. its directed at the marriage of the two.. HondaCrate motor in a JGTC Race Car.. bass-ackwards...
that's interesting - not using the plain kit 27-turn motor for your hopped-up race car. And TCS addressed that exactly with the hotter 23-turn Sport-tuned motor.

Your eyes probably just rolled back in your head, but sport-tuned motor was required for some classes and a couple of Finals. But just mentioning this motor will probably unleash a torrent of comments (mostly negative!). I never smoked one but it seems a lot of others did.

Going from 250 g-cm silver can to a 350 g-cm sport-tuned can is not enough to overpower handling problems and make the cars into land rockets. And the rev rating curve only peaked a few thousand higher, at a number many silver cans could reach. There's not much interest in these motors nowadays, but FWM probably has a big box of them stashed somewhere in the warehouse.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:54 PM
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I have been racing stock 17.5 no timing sedan since my first TCS race in January.

While I have decided to purchase a new (off TCS list) speedo and motor to play with my testing has shown that my race pace is similar using the TCS stuff and the non-TCS stuff. This is for a 6 minute race.

The fastest guy running stock sedan is running a TCS approved motor (LRP X12 17.5) but with an LRP speedo. Another top 3 guy runs a GTB with a Duo2.

So, my thoughts are you can buy the latest and greatest trick items to run with and the benefit there is that they are new. Rotors are fully magnetized and not used, batteries are new and not in the middle of their life and same with the ESCs and wires.

I was having some problems with my Havoc Pro and Novak 17.5 combo...I felt like my car was sluggish and the ESC was shutting off randomly. Turns out I had a motor wire and battery wire with high resistance in the wire. Replaced them both and now it feels every bit as good as my other non TCS approved motor and speedo.

Now, is 17.5 enough motor for GT1? I think so. 35mph on the straights and fast lap times that are only 0.5 seconds off mod lap times comparing the fastest guys is pretty incredible, and not really noticeable (seriously, 0.5s is not that long).

Is 17.5 enough motor for the PEOPLE running GT1? Hmmm...not sure.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by F1Jet
that's interesting - not using the plain kit 27-turn motor for your hopped-up race car. And TCS addressed that exactly with the hotter 23-turn Sport-tuned motor.

Your eyes probably just rolled back in your head, but sport-tuned motor was required for some classes and a couple of Finals. But just mentioning this motor will probably unleash a torrent of comments (mostly negative!). I never smoked one but it seems a lot of others did.
...:



I actually prefer the Black-cans, they are Race-Tuned.. I've never smoked one either.. The people who smoked em were the ones who tried to apply SilverCan Magic.. Tamiya stopped running them because they were too 'fragile' and 'people' (SilverCanMagicMakers) complained.. My question then was if the SilverCans can get up to the same speed by those that master the art, and if some people liked the Black Sport Tuned cans then why not just run them together?

Last edited by OSherman; 07-28-2011 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
.

Mini guys that just ran their enduro can input their thoughts on the 17.5 no boost along with the fixed/max gearing they were limited to.
Was 17.5 enough motor to determine that horsepower didn't decide the winner?

When it's silvercans, policing is madatory unless of course it is among friends.
See Granpa? I got yer back.
The 17.5 systems we ran at the Enduro were very good. About the same speed as the Silvercan. Much less variation in speeds than with the Silvercans. All in all a positive experience. A couple of teams had some issues, but don't know for sure what they were.

I do dread the installation, cause we had wires going in every direction. Had to put my hand over my eyes till we got the body on it. Orlando promised me he'd show me how to make the wiring look all nice and purty.

Will try a 17.5 system in one of my Minis after the Nats. Just need to figure out which one. The Silvercan dramas are beginning to wear me out.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:28 PM
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It does not make any difference which type of motor we race, now or in the future... We have reached a level of sophistication where any motors must be teched to be within some established limits. Race promoters must set and ENFORCE some sort of limits. Re-read Fred's previous post; I totally agree it's only way to keep a series healthy.
Brushless is very attractive maintenance-wise, but just wait until the smart guys get busy. Oh, cancel that - they already have been busy!
Every time we have a handout race, I think I have a real chance....and then it turns out I'm slow as ever....huuuumm, maybe it's not the motor....
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:11 PM
  #15910  
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FRED
A Main Mini guys switch to Black can for the last three races!! Its fun its only 10 motors and I will buy em for the main just to watch cuz I dont think I will make the a main anyways. Its a cool twist that ALL mini guys would love. Seriously I will pay for all 10 motors and 2 for back up. Pleeeeeease
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:00 AM
  #15911  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
im not worried about or complaining about the rules.. its about principal.. Race-intended motors, for race intended cars... my 'tuning to make faster' isnt directed solely to the drive train.. its directed at the marriage of the two.. HondaCrate motor in a JGTC Race Car.. bass-ackwards...
I am with you on this one Orlando. As I have said for the last two years, it is the "dumming down" of TCS. All we keep hearing is "too fast" and "too expensive". Back when I ran my first TCS season in 2003 or 2004, it was GT-1, GT-2 and F1 going to Japan. When Tamiya Japan killed F201, mini replaced F1. GT-1 was open mod, then 19T, then 10.5 brushless, then 13.5 now 17.5. The rules change every year costing more, not less. Everyone screams about the speed or this motor or that esc has an advantage but no one complains about the mah on batteries going up each year. Now we have $ 50.00 set premounts we have to use. I used to think racing was supposed to be about how to go faster and learn to drive better. I for one did listen to Fred's comment about watch what class you run to qualify for Nats. If it were not for the new 2010/2011 rule, I would be skipping Nats this year because why bother spending all the money on kits, tires, parts, bodies, etc. all season to find out my FF03 and GT-1 cars could not give me a shot at a trip to Japan ? Maybe I should buy more kits and run four different classes to be sure next year ? Want to bet how much larger the turn outs would be for GT-1 if that was announced at the beginning of the year that would be a Nationals class ? Lucky I ran GT-2 at a regional last year or I would probably have gone racing somewhere that weekend where a 416 with an esc and motor not on the Tamiya list would be welcomed and allowed to race. Oh, and it's easy to keep the "Brand X" motors one shop only brings in from China out of TCS, it called the ROAR approved list.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
I actually prefer the Black-cans, they are Race-Tuned.. I've never smoked one either.. The people who smoked em were the ones who tried to apply SilverCan Magic.. Tamiya stopped running them because they were too 'fragile' and 'people' (SilverCanMagicMakers) complained.. My question then was if the SilverCans can get up to the same speed by those that master the art, and if some people liked the Black Sport Tuned cans then why not just run them together?
SilverCan Magic
SilverCanMagicMakers
vibrators...silver cans always generate interesting comments! As for the running them together, IMO, different gearing, acceleration, and top speed would make for different strategies and could make the racing more interesting, but it is a lot easier to tech the same stuff.

As to where we are going, more tech checks are coming: A quick label check is not sufficient anymore. Battery voltages, esc settings, motor performance. Blinky? Good grief - why would we trust a blinking light? Is it speaking in morse code? Keep using those Tamiya motor plugs!
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:46 PM
  #15913  
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17.5 no boost with my 1st ESC GTB in sedan roadcourse seems decent, which is nothing compared to what I run on carpet foam-17.5-open esc over the Winter and rubber over summer. I do miss running 17.5 open esc which used to be TCS legal.

Not a fan of black-cans. They should paint them with a waffle finish and put a pinned handle on it. Locally guys during the Winter were running a "GT3" class with them. I showed up with a regular SC and they were amazed I ran cool and would not burn up like they did, now they are screaming BL. If you remember few years back the nats mandated black cans and many guys left the race with bug sprayers.

Mini might be the only class meant for black canned motors.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:36 AM
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Actually, the latest version black cans with the harder brushes are much less volatile than the older ones. Did up a bunch of them for some series in Australia or NZ and they had a ball with them, not one of them burned up.

I think they ran a spec gear ratio, though. Smart.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I am with you on this one Orlando. As I have said for the last two years, it is the "dumming down" of TCS. All we keep hearing is "too fast" and "too expensive". Back when I ran my first TCS season in 2003 or 2004, it was GT-1, GT-2 and F1 going to Japan. When Tamiya Japan killed F201, mini replaced F1. GT-1 was open mod, then 19T, then 10.5 brushless, then 13.5 now 17.5. The rules change every year costing more, not less. Everyone screams about the speed or this motor or that esc has an advantage but no one complains about the mah on batteries going up each year. Now we have $ 50.00 set premounts we have to use. I used to think racing was supposed to be about how to go faster and learn to drive better. I for one did listen to Fred's comment about watch what class you run to qualify for Nats. If it were not for the new 2010/2011 rule, I would be skipping Nats this year because why bother spending all the money on kits, tires, parts, bodies, etc. all season to find out my FF03 and GT-1 cars could not give me a shot at a trip to Japan ? Maybe I should buy more kits and run four different classes to be sure next year ? Want to bet how much larger the turn outs would be for GT-1 if that was announced at the beginning of the year that would be a Nationals class ? Lucky I ran GT-2 at a regional last year or I would probably have gone racing somewhere that weekend where a 416 with an esc and motor not on the Tamiya list would be welcomed and allowed to race. Oh, and it's easy to keep the "Brand X" motors one shop only brings in from China out of TCS, it called the ROAR approved list.
totally agree i remember brining many brush and spring combo's to try and re doing the motor after run,i do support the new rules and hope the will stay around.
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