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Old 06-30-2011, 10:15 AM
  #15766  
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Default By the book

Originally Posted by Granpa
I'd believe the manual. Mine is by the book and has a lot more than 1 run on it with no problems.
+1. I have (mistakenly) run the screw on the "wrong" side and found over time it loosens. Also, remember the old rule to replace the diff nut every time you rebuild or repair the diff, and definitely use the TRF201 gears. I don't know what those Eastern lads are using for motor, and perhaps they have more traction than TA does (OTOH, the surface of the moon has more traction than TA does), but if you're running anything other than a silver can motor you'll chew up that idler gear.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:31 AM
  #15767  
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Originally Posted by rdcobra
everyone back here melted their stock diffs after just 1 pack even though the diff was built and mounted correctly.

Clarification please...

Is step 3 of the manual incorrect? The head of the screw is away from the spur gear in this step. That puts the head on the left side. I have run the Associated RC10GT diff in all of my nitro oval cars. If the diff bolt is a traditional thread, as in the GT, then you are correct, and the manual is wrong.

I am taking this on its maiden voyage in two weeks, and I don't want to melt the stock stuff.

Anyone here is welcome to chime in.
I think the main reason to have the diff mounted "as per the manual" is to be sure that the little pink foamies get put in the right way in order to have the proper cushion for the dogbones.
If it's flipped then the bones will flail around on one side and be binding up on the other, especially when the wheels are turned side to side.
Notice that the arrow in the manual shows the diff being flipped before putting it in the case. Also notice the foamies getting cut to size for proper fit.
We've run diffs flipped in other cars just to prove a point that the diff should not loosen due to direction of rotation but in some of our applications it is installed a certain way in order to allow easy access to the head of the screw.

After the diff is built correctly, adjust it correctly too.
Diff building 101 always says to tighten the screw a little at a time and work it in by twisting the outdrives back and forth so as not to crank it down and crush the balls into the diff rings making dents and flat spots or hurting the thrust bearing.

This is how I roll:

Get it as tight as you can, slowly working it but don't strip any thing.
Put it in the car and work it in by running it slowly while holding one wheel at a time for several seconds each wheel, re tighten the diff then check the tightness like this:

Hold the spur gear and the wheel on that side tightly, glove or at least a rag or something to keep the spur from slicing your fingers, then try to turn the other wheel.
It should be very, very difficult to turn but don't want to twist or break anything either especially if using the stock plastic outdrives which I still use along with dogbones. Common sense here should keep stuff from getting thrashed.

Finally test it to make sure it never slips/barks.
I go as far as pushing down on the car on a super grippy surface like the sidewalk or asphalt to test for the bark. Quick blips of the throttle.
I no longer hold the wheels and punch it cuz I feel this is just too harsh and the sidewalk will at least let the wheels spin before hurting anything yet still hold firm enough to be sure.
Even one slip will make the diff feel crunchy.
It's not a clutch.
If it slips it dies.
Test and reset it often for a couple runs til it takes a set.

Guys that have been running ball diffs for a long time still melt these due to trying to run them "just tight enough but still slightly loose".
Aint gonna work.
Keep it snug.
I've found my FF03 diff screw is pretty much fully tightened after it seats
and my diff(s) last a very long time between rebuilds with no melting.

Last edited by F N CUDA; 06-30-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:27 AM
  #15768  
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Default BIG NEWS FOR THE 2011 TAMIYA M CHASSIS ENDURO!!!

Hello M chassis participants!!

I am proud to announce that Novak has agreed to be the official motor sponsor of the 2011 M chassis enduro! Whats going to happen is when you check in on Saturday morning, we are going to loan you a Novak 17.5 non boosted speed control and motor for the duration of the race. With the M chassis 6.0:1 gear ratio, there should be no motor issues even in a 6 hour race. If for some reason, someone has some kind of issue like a speed control failure, or a motor issue or whatever there will be spares available! 17.5 non boosted should be a little quicker than the silver can motors we have been running, but everything will be equal. These are hand out systems that have been provided generously by Novak Racing. We will need them back at the end of the race before you go home. Remember, there are only a few spots left so sign up asap!!
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:50 PM
  #15769  
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Originally Posted by RogerHewson
Hello M chassis participants!!

I am proud to announce that Novak has agreed to be the official motor sponsor of the 2011 M chassis enduro! Whats going to happen is when you check in on Saturday morning, we are going to loan you a Novak 17.5 non boosted speed control and motor for the duration of the race. With the M chassis 6.0:1 gear ratio, there should be no motor issues even in a 6 hour race. If for some reason, someone has some kind of issue like a speed control failure, or a motor issue or whatever there will be spares available! 17.5 non boosted should be a little quicker than the silver can motors we have been running, but everything will be equal. These are hand out systems that have been provided generously by Novak Racing. We will need them back at the end of the race before you go home. Remember, there are only a few spots left so sign up asap!!
Since I know less than nothing about brushless stuff, I have a few ?????

1. I'm assuming that we get the systems, wire them ourselves, then do the install and programing.

2. How big is the esc and will it fit inside the chassis or will we have to sticky tape it on. Could you provide the outside dimensions of the esc and perhaps a photo.

3. If you can't do the above, may we know the model of the esc????

Sorry to be a bother, but I'm just a little anal about advance preparation.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:35 PM
  #15770  
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Originally Posted by RogerHewson
Hello M chassis participants!!

I am proud to announce that Novak has agreed to be the official motor sponsor of the 2011 M chassis enduro! Whats going to happen is when you check in on Saturday morning, we are going to loan you a Novak 17.5 non boosted speed control and motor for the duration of the race. With the M chassis 6.0:1 gear ratio, there should be no motor issues even in a 6 hour race. If for some reason, someone has some kind of issue like a speed control failure, or a motor issue or whatever there will be spares available! 17.5 non boosted should be a little quicker than the silver can motors we have been running, but everything will be equal. These are hand out systems that have been provided generously by Novak Racing. We will need them back at the end of the race before you go home. Remember, there are only a few spots left so sign up asap!!
What a great gesture from Novak !
Should improve the racing quite a bit.
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:02 PM
  #15771  
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Default Prepare for ludicrous speed

Originally Posted by Granpa
Since I know less than nothing about brushless stuff, I have a few ?????

1. I'm assuming that we get the systems, wire them ourselves, then do the install and programing.

2. How big is the esc and will it fit inside the chassis or will we have to sticky tape it on. Could you provide the outside dimensions of the esc and perhaps a photo.

3. If you can't do the above, may we know the model of the esc????

Sorry to be a bother, but I'm just a little anal about advance preparation.
OK, Granpa, the only way you can claim to know less than nothing about anything motors-wise is if the rest of us know even less. I'd figure Novak will going to loan everyone either a GTB or a GTB2. The ESC height will depend on whether they add a fan to the top of the heatsink. The GTB's a little taller than the GTB2; they both have a footprint equal to that of 1 and 1/2 Cyclones, my old DC speedo favorite pre-micros. Putting that inside the rear chassis halves of a M03 might be doable, but might not lie down flat, may have to go in sideways and longitude-wise. As for an M05 or M06, might be more doable in an M05 and putting weight just where you want it. In an MO6, lotsa luck. Granpa, I will bring you a GTB2/17.5 to fiddle with tomorrow.

Hmmm. The greater power of a 17.5 in a Mini chassis. I predict the following:
1) Lots of guys at TA this weekend experimenting with 17.5's in their Minis.
2) Lots of guys seeing just how far up they can turn the motor ring/timing before the temp issues get too high. (Roger, you may want to step in and mandate on that one.)
3) Minis that will actually go faster in a straight line than with a "Stinger" or KO motor.
4) Lots and lots of Minis going "purple in Sector 1".
5) Minis actually leaving burnout marks on the pavement when practicing standing starts.
6) Lots of people working on Mini diffs.
7) Lots of broken Mini parts scattered around the pits by the end of the holiday weekend.
Now I REALLY wish I could be there for the race. Oh boy, is this gonna be great..
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by over gear
panda... let me show you how's done... give me your transmitter...
RAM - you will show me how to drive a car straight into the boards at the end of the straight at 60mph ?
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:19 AM
  #15773  
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Our Enduro team installed a Novak Havoc esc and 17.5 in our Mini. That esc is huge compared to the Tekin fx that was in the car. There is no way that the esc would fit inside the chassis.

Other than the fact it just looks godawful with all those wires, there were no particular issues. Ran just like a Silvercan, sort of.
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
RAM - you will show me how to drive a car straight into the boards at the end of the straight at 60mph ?
K, gear your car right and give me your radio, and I'll be happy to show you how to realign the boards at the end of the straight at high speed.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:15 PM
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.

Last edited by colhazard; 07-04-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:44 AM
  #15776  
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I do not know any dimensions on the ESC for the brushless systems, but it sounds like you got it all figured out Granpa. As soon as Gary gets back in the office I will have him email each of the teams who have signed up so everyone knows. I thought it would be neat to run the brushless Novak motors because the speeds really wont go up, and it will make it interesting. If it ends up being a disaster we can always change back next time. Like I said before, we only have a couple spots, so if anyone is planning on signing up and hasn't yet, please sign up that way we can compile the roster and get it entered into the computer. I want to thank everyone ahead of time for your entries, and I am really looking forward to the race next Saturday.

Roger
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:40 PM
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Was prepping a couple of motors for Kevin Nino and myself for the Fun Race and came across something unusual. His was a NIB motor and came out just great. Legal, but right on the edge.

Mine is a different story. Took it right out of the box and ran it in practice and a race at another track. The brushes were not close to being seated so I decided to water dip it and it's been running in water for over an hour and the brushes still aren't seated. The peculiar thing is that the comm along a couple of the slots between the poles are pitted. Have my theories on why this happened , but am not sure they are correct. Used to think that you could do a good "break in" right in the car, but am beginning to wonder about the validity of that. Maybe, it's better to seat the brushes proir to ever running the motor before installing it in a car.

Just wondering out loud. Any one any rhoughts?????
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Was prepping a couple of motors for Kevin Nino and myself for the Fun Race and came across something unusual. His was a NIB motor and came out just great. Legal, but right on the edge.

Mine is a different story. Took it right out of the box and ran it in practice and a race at another track. The brushes were not close to being seated so I decided to water dip it and it's been running in water for over an hour and the brushes still aren't seated. The peculiar thing is that the comm along a couple of the slots between the poles are pitted. Have my theories on why this happened , but am not sure they are correct. Used to think that you could do a good "break in" right in the car, but am beginning to wonder about the validity of that. Maybe, it's better to seat the brushes proir to ever running the motor before installing it in a car.

Just wondering out loud. Any one any rhoughts?????
since the beginning of time (or maybe just my RC Race career ) when we used to race the 'brushed' motors with exotic and not-so exotic but well-shaped brushes and perfectly sprung springs it was always best to break in on the bench slowly to seat the brushes to the comm... slowly ramping up.. only when the brush/comm were fully seated could you beat it with a bat with minimal pitting/arching... kinda like a fine smoked rack of ribs sweating at optimal heat but retaining moisture..

just throw you favorite bbq sauce on that motor and call it done..
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Was prepping a couple of motors for Kevin Nino and myself for the Fun Race and came across something unusual. His was a NIB motor and came out just great. Legal, but right on the edge.

Mine is a different story. Took it right out of the box and ran it in practice and a race at another track. The brushes were not close to being seated so I decided to water dip it and it's been running in water for over an hour and the brushes still aren't seated. The peculiar thing is that the comm along a couple of the slots between the poles are pitted. Have my theories on why this happened , but am not sure they are correct. Used to think that you could do a good "break in" right in the car, but am beginning to wonder about the validity of that. Maybe, it's better to seat the brushes proir to ever running the motor before installing it in a car.

Just wondering out loud. Any one any rhoughts?????
I think anytime you run the motors in a race, you're going to use up some of the brush. When you burn a brush, there is still material, but it's dead. Not that you burnt the brushes, but it's not the same as 3v or 5v or whatever free spinning, or even a water dip.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:46 AM
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Once a motor has been run -at all, for any length of time- the brushes go through a heat cycle and become both harder and more brittle. Always better to water dip a new motor than one that's been in a car. We've also found that breaking in a motor by running it in the car rather than using a controlled bench process generally results in brushes that appear to be more chipped on the leading edges.
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