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Old 02-22-2011, 04:24 PM
  #15421  
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
It looks like Tamiya will have to up the 17,500 silvercan rule to 18,500.

If you buy them and run them new you are mid 15s @ 7.2v.

If you break in the brushes with no funny business, 18-18.2 at 7.2v.

Last weekend at Omaha I spent all weekend trying to knock down many motors 1,000 rpm so not to be dqed. Those I did, avoided it for myself and others. I don't see the average racer being able to do this unless they toss their motors to Grandpa, Doc or Swifty, assuming they are at the race and have time. There were many fast cars that were DQed who were trying to work with new broken in motors. Don't see this as a positive for silvercans, just a change that needs to happen to put everybody on the same level.
If the motors get any special attention, breaking in the brushes included, they will be right on the edge of legal.
I just ran a new motor and cleaned it and it was close but fine at the 17,500 mark.
It is over the limit now, after being run several more times since the Aliso Regionals.

If the limit gets raised tho the funny business will only get funnier no?
Will the racers stick to just dippin em for breakin and settle for the low 18,000 rpm if the limit is upped to 18,500 or will they get that extra tweek on the brush springs to push that limit too?
Then would it be ok to DQ those?

Just sayin, we pulled it off out here without too much grief, I think, but you had to watch it closely if you chose to run an older motor.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
If the motors get any special attention, breaking in the brushes included, they will be right on the edge of legal.
I just ran a new motor and cleaned it and it was close but fine at the 17,500 mark.
It is over the limit now, after being run several more times since the Aliso Regionals.

If the limit gets raised tho the funny business will only get funnier no?
Will the racers stick to just dippin em for breakin and settle for the low 18,000 rpm if the limit is upped to 18,500 or will they get that extra tweek on the brush springs to push that limit too?
Then would it be ok to DQ those?

Just sayin, we pulled it off out here without too much grief, I think, but you had to watch it closely if you chose to run an older motor.
I did have 2 brand new motors broken in for this event. Both were never ran and locked in at 18-18.2. I had 2 motors that were only used as unbroken in national practice motors. The moment I broke in the brushes they were 18,000. The guy that got Dqed twice at the event was asking me what do I need to do to break in these motors. Each time he broke in a new one he was at 18k.

Sure you could say don't break them in. Then for sure you favor the motor builders because you would leave 2k on the table. Where as at 18,5 everybody has a chance at making a fast motor in as little as 3 minutes plus you can save some money using older motors, unless they were designed for higher rpm limits.

If you are riding the edge of the limits, after a race you will be over.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:38 PM
  #15423  
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Simple fix!!! PLease tell me everyone knows this already so I don't sound insulting. If you break in the brushes all the way the motor lets say turns 18,000. No break in = 16,000. Guess what DONT ...... break...... the .......brushes....... all....... the...... way....... in!! Water dip for 1 minute or so, remove from water and inspect brush. repat process till brushes are HALF way seated. Dyno motor and if its 16,800 or 17,000 then your good. Run the motor several times in the car and it will slowly pick up the extra RPM desired. This is a simple process that everyone can do. Its like a hair cut - just a little at a time until you get the right length. Any questions please PM Doc or Grandpa GOOD LUCK
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:31 PM
  #15424  
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
Simple fix!!! PLease tell me everyone knows this already so I don't sound insulting. If you break in the brushes all the way the motor lets say turns 18,000. No break in = 16,000. Guess what DONT ...... break...... the .......brushes....... all....... the...... way....... in!! Water dip for 1 minute or so, remove from water and inspect brush. repat process till brushes are HALF way seated. Dyno motor and if its 16,800 or 17,000 then your good. Run the motor several times in the car and it will slowly pick up the extra RPM desired. This is a simple process that everyone can do. Its like a hair cut - just a little at a time until you get the right length. Any questions please PM Doc or Grandpa GOOD LUCK
NO, don't PM me, cause I haven't a clue. I just have a bunch of motors over the limit.

Your best bet would be to PM Fred and see what their breakin procedure was on the motors they tested to establish the rpm limit.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 PM
  #15425  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
If the limit gets raised tho the funny business will only get funnier no?

Just sayin, we pulled it off out here without too much grief, I think, but you had to watch it closely if you chose to run an older motor.
Brother Cuda, I think you hit the nail on the head there. I don't want to see the funny business get any funnier. And after DQ'ing for a motor that had no funny business, just something like 1 min. of water dipping and about 10 runs, I have a nice fresh motor out of the box that hasn't even been water dipped and is showing 16,400 rpm. That baby's waiting for the next TCS. Because I'm pretty sure it'll be legal.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:35 AM
  #15426  
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
Simple fix!!! PLease tell me everyone knows this already so I don't sound insulting. If you break in the brushes all the way the motor lets say turns 18,000. No break in = 16,000. Guess what DONT ...... break...... the .......brushes....... all....... the...... way....... in!! Water dip for 1 minute or so, remove from water and inspect brush. repat process till brushes are HALF way seated. Dyno motor and if its 16,800 or 17,000 then your good. Run the motor several times in the car and it will slowly pick up the extra RPM desired. This is a simple process that everyone can do. Its like a hair cut - just a little at a time until you get the right length. Any questions please PM Doc or Grandpa GOOD LUCK
That is great advice. However, this past weekend I had a mini motor go from 16,800rpm on day one , to 18,000rpm on day two. No break in, no water dipping, just ran it in the car for 10-15 runs during course of the event. Had to use a fresh motor for the mains or be Dq'd (it happened to 4-5 guys during the day). And, it took sorting through 8 motors before the start of the event to find two that were under 17,500. After racing was completed, only 1 was under. Sort of silly that some racers may show up to the track with a dozen motors to run a few times each before they exceed the limit.

Now if someone can come up with "slow down" drops we would be set. Add a few and the motor drops 200rpm.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:43 AM
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Where do I order motors that pull numbers out of the box like you guys? Seriously...the few motors that I have purchased were were in the 14-15K range straight out of the box. What gives? or is there something else going on?
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:58 AM
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For anyone who's interested I am embarking on a career as a psychic and fortune teller, for the price of a new 540J I will hold your motor to my forehead and tell you whether or not it will pass tech
Originally Posted by ewippler
That is great advice. However, this past weekend I had a mini motor go from 16,800rpm on day one , to 18,000rpm on day two. No break in, no water dipping, just ran it in the car for 10-15 runs during course of the event. Had to use a fresh motor for the mains or be Dq'd (it happened to 4-5 guys during the day). And, it took sorting through 8 motors before the start of the event to find two that were under 17,500. After racing was completed, only 1 was under. Sort of silly that some racers may show up to the track with a dozen motors to run a few times each before they exceed the limit.

Now if someone can come up with "slow down" drops we would be set. Add a few and the motor drops 200rpm.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
Where do I order motors that pull numbers out of the box like you guys? Seriously...the few motors that I have purchased were were in the 14-15K range straight out of the box. What gives? or is there something else going on?

ditto... even when i asked for 'assistance' some of my motors didnt react... weird... waaayyyy too much voodoo-doo with these things.. a vicious circle...
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
Where do I order motors that pull numbers out of the box like you guys? Seriously...the few motors that I have purchased were were in the 14-15K range straight out of the box. What gives? or is there something else going on?
I think it sort of depends on which production run or line the motors were made. The motors we got at the Nats for example were inconsistant and were generally slower than some of the later examples. I also had a few of the early CS brushed motors and these were also on the slow side. Purchased a few a couple of months ago and these were much better ---actually worse cause they blew right on by the rpm limit.

Most of the older soft brushed motors will meet the rpm rule. As usual there will be some that don't. A quick 1 min water dip at 2v is all these require.

Originally Posted by OSherman
ditto... even when i asked for 'assistance' some of my motors didnt react... weird... waaayyyy too much voodoo-doo with these things.. a vicious circle...
See the above
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
I think it sort of depends on which production run or line the motors were made. The motors we got at the Nats for example were inconsistant and were generally slower than some of the later examples. I also had a few of the early CS brushed motors and these were also on the slow side. Purchased a few a couple of months ago and these were much better ---actually worse cause they blew right on by the rpm limit.

Most of the older soft brushed motors will meet the rpm rule. As usual there will be some that don't. A quick 1 min water dip at 2v is all these require.



See the above
sounds like we need new motors every event now..
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:10 AM
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Having been DQ'd in the past for 20RPM's I can relate. No sour grapes - it is, what it is.

Interesting, comments regarding the evolution of the CS motors. Seems like the reality is, if your running the newer CS in anger 15 times (and cleaning it) we should expect it to exceed the limit.

Based on the RPM gain of the CS motor, we are back to dedicating motors for racing only much like the past when you had no RPM limit. You would save the "magic motor" for racing only because of the short life span of the motor/magnets/brush . The difference is now they turn into a decent practice motor, not a paper weight.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:09 AM
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I was one of the racers that had runs DQd this last weekend in Omaha. Once in FF and once in mini. Both times these were brand new motors with NO break in. I just oiled the bushings and put them in the car. One checked in at 16,300 out of the box and one at 16,800. After 2 runs the mini motor DQd at 17,880 after the mandatory 10 min cool down. The FF motor had 5 runs and came in at 17, 680. I bought 8 motors at the track and 2 are still legal when warm. No voodoo, no comm drops, no break-in nothing...

I really think the powers that be need to raise the RPM slightly otherwise there will be lots of DQs. Some were slick with fans that kept running over their motors while in tech post race...but they caught onto that too and made people turn the fans off. No fault at all to the tech in Omaha...they did a great and fair job. But 17,500 is just too low! We shouldn't need to buy 10 motors and runt them no more than twice to stay within the legal RPM limit.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
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So now that the true testing has gone on Nationwide, if an 18,500 rpm limit is set would it be fair to say that just about every boxstock motor will easily pass?
And if so, will this put an end to all of the DQ blues? Meaning that if you blow an 18,500 limit then you more than likely did just a little too much, rolled the dice and deserve the DQ?

Sounds like a plan that could very well be what will keep everyone safe and happy since no one has mentioned that their stock broken in motor is running in the 19,000 range. Yet.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
So now that the true testing has gone on Nationwide, if an 18,500 rpm limit is set would it be fair to say that just about every boxstock motor will easily pass?
And if so, will this put an end to all of the DQ blues? Meaning that if you blow an 18,500 limit then you more than likely did just a little too much, rolled the dice and deserve the DQ?

Sounds like a plan that could very well be what will keep everyone safe and happy since no one has mentioned that their stock broken in motor is running in the 19,000 range. Yet.
didnt we already have an 18.500-range limit in the past?? or was that at a different voltage?
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