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Old 01-03-2011, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Here's a great idea for 2012, run out of the box XB built cars that you "rent" at the track and return at the end of the race day. Isn't that as spec as you can get ? ......
You can already do that Kevin.

It's called K1 Speed and you can even get in and drive em!
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default ff03 GEARING

HI ,

CAN SOMEBODY GIVE ME A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR GEARING, SPUR&PINION 64P FOR THE FF03 TCS RACING WITH kO ESC / BRUSHED & 540 MOTOR ON CARPET ?

THANKS
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:00 PM
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I know I'm opening up a can of worms that has seemed to have died down over the last few days, but has anyone noticed that none of the classes at the TCS World's in Japan run Silver Cans anymore? I was there in 2009 and looking at the classes run this year, there were 0 silver cans being run once again!
My guess is that after one of our more "imaginative" US participants figured out how to make them go as fast as a 19 turn and some of our more creative SC tuners have adopted similar techniques for "tuning" them, the Japanese felt that some overseas participants would have an unfair advantage (imagine that!!) if they were continued to be used.
As a result, the Tamiya 28 turn and 32 turn brushed motors (along with brushless in some classes) has replaced the venerable silver can. Maybe we should be looking at these motors as an alternative to SC in our TCS races? The nice thing about them is that the brushes are replaceable (must use the stock brush that comes with the motor as a replacement) and the wear and tear on them is minimal. You could easily run one of these motors the entire season without having to replace it.
I know that the silver can guys are going to say "you can tune any motor to go faster than it supposed to" and they're right. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. If this is what Japan is running and we as particpants in their "party" want to make a good showing, then maybe we should be devoting our time and effort to be good at playing "their game".

There have been those who are complaining about the "spec" type of racing that we are heading in for our TCS racing events. If you would only take a moment to look at how the "ultimate prize" that we all (okay many of us) have dreams of achieving (i.e. TCS World's in Japan) run their races, you would realize the extreme measures the Japanese take to make everything "equal" for all participants.
The rules that each US participant must use to be TCS Worlds "legal" is 22 pages long!! The rules dictate the motor (with yes, RPM limits), the battery, the gearing (down to the specific spur and pinion gear for each chassis design), tires, body, chassis weight among a lot of other details you are allowed to run. Heck they even found one non Tamiya screw on my car when it was inspected and made me change before allowing my car to pass tech! Fred's rules are only a "loose interpretation" of these rules.
When I first had the opportunity to test my car that I was going to run for the TCS World's, I thought for sure that I must have done something wrong preparing my car because it was so butt slow. Ask Christian Lopez how he felt when we first put his World's prepared car out on the track for the first time this year! LOL He turned to me and said "Is this it? Is this how fast we are going to be running?"
The funny thing about all of this is that when I got to Japan and ran against the other drivers in this format, it was actually fun and exciting!! It took the emphasis off of who could go the "fastest" and placed it on the skills of the driver and their ability to set up their car. Don't get me wrong, I like to go fast as much as the next guy. But if this is what you are looking for running the Tamiya Championship Series you might want to choose another venue for your racing experience.
I think FWM should go further in his rules (i.e. specific spec gearing) to make your TCS experience as similar to what you will expect in Japan. After all, the Japanese run the classes very similar to what is being run at the World's all year long. No wonder they have an advantage over us when we come over to play with them! They work hard on tuning their motors to get the absolute most out of them and they know exactly how to charge their batteries to be at their peak for each race.
If we as North American TCS Champion hopefuls want to compete with the Japanese at their game, we should be doing what they are doing this very moment... preparing for the TCS World's in the format that they will be run as closely as possible. Our cars and racing skills need to be precise, extremely well setup and yes.... SLOW!! Their Game, Their Rules!!
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Here's a great idea for 2012, run out of the box XB built cars
what happened to the Senior Spec class?
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:14 PM
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Well put Lee... I agree with you.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:53 PM
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Lee, when you're right, you're right. Could not agree with you more. It's good to have input from someone wo's been there.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:08 PM
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In 2009, TCS had us run 32 turn motors in F1 and I liked em.

Slower but torquey.

Last edited by F N CUDA; 01-03-2011 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:50 PM
  #15053  
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA
In 2009, TCS had us run 32 turn motors in F1 and I liked em.

Slower but torquey.
Thats what F1 ran in Japan
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnn27
HI ,

CAN SOMEBODY GIVE ME A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR GEARING, SPUR&PINION 64P FOR THE FF03 TCS RACING WITH kO ESC / BRUSHED & 540 MOTOR ON CARPET ?

THANKS
We've been running 80 tooth spur gears with 50 thru 54 tooth pinion gears, 64 pitch.
I'd start with the 50 tooth pinion on carpet, traction may make it run hot.
Too hot is 170 plus (from what I've been told).
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:00 PM
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Lee has just dropped science on the thread...listen!
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Leester
I know I'm opening up a can of worms that has seemed to have died down over the last few days, but has anyone noticed that none of the classes at the TCS World's in Japan run Silver Cans anymore? I was there in 2009 and looking at the classes run this year, there were 0 silver cans being run once again!
My guess is that after one of our more "imaginative" US participants figured out how to make them go as fast as a 19 turn and some of our more creative SC tuners have adopted similar techniques for "tuning" them, the Japanese felt that some overseas participants would have an unfair advantage (imagine that!!) if they were continued to be used.
As a result, the Tamiya 28 turn and 32 turn brushed motors (along with brushless in some classes) has replaced the venerable silver can. Maybe we should be looking at these motors as an alternative to SC in our TCS races? The nice thing about them is that the brushes are replaceable (must use the stock brush that comes with the motor as a replacement) and the wear and tear on them is minimal. You could easily run one of these motors the entire season without having to replace it.
I know that the silver can guys are going to say "you can tune any motor to go faster than it supposed to" and they're right. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. If this is what Japan is running and we as particpants in their "party" want to make a good showing, then maybe we should be devoting our time and effort to be good at playing "their game".

There have been those who are complaining about the "spec" type of racing that we are heading in for our TCS racing events. If you would only take a moment to look at how the "ultimate prize" that we all (okay many of us) have dreams of achieving (i.e. TCS World's in Japan) run their races, you would realize the extreme measures the Japanese take to make everything "equal" for all participants.
The rules that each US participant must use to be TCS Worlds "legal" is 22 pages long!! The rules dictate the motor (with yes, RPM limits), the battery, the gearing (down to the specific spur and pinion gear for each chassis design), tires, body, chassis weight among a lot of other details you are allowed to run. Heck they even found one non Tamiya screw on my car when it was inspected and made me change before allowing my car to pass tech! Fred's rules are only a "loose interpretation" of these rules.
When I first had the opportunity to test my car that I was going to run for the TCS World's, I thought for sure that I must have done something wrong preparing my car because it was so butt slow. Ask Christian Lopez how he felt when we first put his World's prepared car out on the track for the first time this year! LOL He turned to me and said "Is this it? Is this how fast we are going to be running?"
The funny thing about all of this is that when I got to Japan and ran against the other drivers in this format, it was actually fun and exciting!! It took the emphasis off of who could go the "fastest" and placed it on the skills of the driver and their ability to set up their car. Don't get me wrong, I like to go fast as much as the next guy. But if this is what you are looking for running the Tamiya Championship Series you might want to choose another venue for your racing experience.
I think FWM should go further in his rules (i.e. specific spec gearing) to make your TCS experience as similar to what you will expect in Japan. After all, the Japanese run the classes very similar to what is being run at the World's all year long. No wonder they have an advantage over us when we come over to play with them! They work hard on tuning their motors to get the absolute most out of them and they know exactly how to charge their batteries to be at their peak for each race.
If we as North American TCS Champion hopefuls want to compete with the Japanese at their game, we should be doing what they are doing this very moment... preparing for the TCS World's in the format that they will be run as closely as possible. Our cars and racing skills need to be precise, extremely well setup and yes.... SLOW!! Their Game, Their Rules!!
How can you argue with that? And there is no smack here because he's been there and knows.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Happy New Years Mark. Welcome back from the Far East. Hope the info I sent you helped on your trip. Whip up on those PA guys just like you did to us out here !
Happy New Years Kevin.

Btw, I did some damage in the street shopping area of HK. I know the guys at Action really well now! Thanks for the help and tour guide assist.

The PA guys are rock solid, they own the house for carpet. I am more than happy to get outdoors! I do have to admit that my EXOTECH 104 and TRG 103 are legit on carpet.

Keep the guys motivated in F1 - enjoyed following the SoCal series. Tell them to get more pics up!
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:34 PM
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With all due respect, Lee, the vast majority of people who participate in the one TCS regional event that comes their way (maybe) once each year have no expectation (or hope) of going to The Big One In Japan. I think your posting is very logical and well written, but I do not concur.

While I agree that continuing to use silver cans seems redundant, I think Fred got stuck between a rock (wanting to keep the series interesting and popular) and a hard place (Tamiya's brand name brushless systems not ready for prime time and not wanting to commit to another brand's systems if the Tamiya systems become available sometime in 2011). Arguably, using your logic, running brushless in TCS is equally pointless because they don't run it that way in Japan. Which makes me think that Japan is being a little backward. While I'm not sure that running silver can is any better a decision, it's the What Is and I'll participate with a smile, knowing that in November I'll be in Virginia and not Japan.

Personally, I don't give a fig about how they do it in Japan. Really, I just don't care. It's...irrelevant.

I care MUCH more about being inclusive and getting as many people as possible in the USA involved in our hobby, and specifically TCS racing. You DON'T do that by being exclusive, or requiring expensive additional equipment or weird wind motors that the typical club racer will use only once each year. You do that by accepting certain norms (e.g. How It's Done Here In The USA) and trying to align your series as much as possible with Stuff That People Already Own- especially during an economic downturn like the one we are experiencing.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:49 PM
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How do I sign up for the Jan 16 race in Aliso?
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:00 PM
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"You DON'T do that by being exclusive, or requiring expensive additional equipment or weird wind motors that the typical club racer will use only once each year. You do that by accepting certain norms (e.g. How It's Done Here In The USA) and trying to align your series as much as possible with Stuff That People Already Own- especially during an economic downturn like the one we are experiencing."[/QUOTE]

Doc, While I certainly see your point, I think a nerve might have been hit and there might be a bit of bias being introduced with your reply. You are a Silver Can after market supplier. The last time I checked a RED Dot Motor cost $45.00. The Tamiya 32 Turn Motor can be purchased for as little as $24.00. I hardly think this alternative is "expensive". In fact, if you take in consideration the cost of a set of replacement brushes versus another silver can (even if it's not yours) the budget racer would be better served with this alternative.
With the possible exception to my comment about including spec gearing, I'm not quite sure how this changes anything in terms of how the TCS Series is currently being run. While I'm sure my comments will have no affect on how this years TCS series is run, I hope that my logic can be understood and considered in the future. When in Rome.....
It is unfortunate that you don't share the same dreams that many TCS participants have about going to race in Japan. I think you're selling a lot of people short, even though the realities are that very few of us will ever realize this dream. Heck, I can think of a couple of old timers (sorry Mr S Hickman) who still hold on to a very important goal in their racing part of their lives and that is to go to race in the TCS World's! Craig Hammond and Steve, almost did it last year in F1 and Oliver Clipper almost did it in GT2 in 2009! Dreams in spite of your age keep the fun in the sport and the reason to continue participation with purpose and enthusiasm!
Despite my disability (Autism), I never lost site of my dream to make it to Japan to race at the TCS World's. My parents have always supported me and my goals. It took me 13 years to accomplish my goal (my dream). If I can do it, ANYONE can if they invest the time and effort.
That's what is so great about the TCS Series. It gives the everyday average racer an opportunity to achieve something that is realistically unachievable anywhere else. I encourage all of you who participate in the TCS, keep trying! Most of the fun is in the journey. Here's to the journey!!
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