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Old 12-31-2010, 07:44 AM
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I'm going to sound like a newb asking this, but since most of you are getting motors in the 17k rpm range and the rule states it has to be less than 17,500...isn't a motor at 17,250 a great thing? without even doing any tuning work? For guys like me who are clueless about tuning silvers, 17K (heck, I'll even run with a 15-16k) I be extremely happy if I have one that's good and at the rule's limit right out of the box....am I missing something here.

I like brandon's post....basically shut up and drive!

Steve
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by teamstrc
I'm going to sound like a newb asking this, but since most of you are getting motors in the 17k rpm range and the rule states it has to be less than 17,500...isn't a motor at 17,250 a great thing? without even doing any tuning work? For guys like me who are clueless about tuning silvers, 17K (heck, I'll even run with a 15-16k) I be extremely happy if I have one that's good and at the rule's limit right out of the box....am I missing something here.

I like brandon's post....basically shut up and drive!

Steve
+1

It seems that everyone (I really don't mean everyone) is always trying to complicate the rules. Fred did an outstanding job of making a rules package as simple and straight forward as possible, and now people are trying it muck it up. I think everyone needs to stop worrying about the motors. Just put one in and set your car up, drive it and practice. Most of us are not going to win and I can guarantee the driver that practices and knows how to get the best from their car's setup will beat anyone that just worries about getting the most from their motor. It is not the motor that beats you it is the lack of diriving skills of one vs. the skills of another that beats you.
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:30 AM
  #15018  
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Maybe I should clarify:

What I'm curious about is do the silver can get faster after you run them? meaning if I have one at 17250 and after a 5 minute run and it breaks in more it hits 18000, then for those like me that don't know how to tune or "de-tune" them, then we're in trouble. If it gets slower, then well, those of you not happy with your 17250, I'll take two please

in no way am I discounting the fact that you need "motor" to win. but I think what others are saying is that having just motor will not win and maybe there's too much focus on that The best driver needs the best combination of motor/speed, setup, driving skill and a bit of luck to win the race, having all 4 would be great, having 3 out of 4 is not bad. Having just 2 out of 4, then you better start working on the 2 that you don't have...

Steve
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by teamstrc
The best driver needs the best combination of motor/speed, setup, driving skill and a bit of luck to win the race, having all 4 would be great, having 3 out of 4 is not bad. Having just 2 out of 4, then you better start working on the 2 that you don't have...
What if you need 3? Oh, sometimes my luck is iffy
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:05 AM
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Obviously the concern is not getting a good motor.

The concern is having a motor that will, in drag racing terms, "breakout" meaning exceed the limit for the class.
This can be done with a stock motor that has gone untouched other than just running them with proper maintenance and no special break in procedures.
I have 2 of them and fortunately have been able to test and weed them out.
One of those is well over 18,000 rpm and slow!

I've also found one that is low rpm and quite fast. Torque is your friend.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:49 AM
  #15021  
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Originally Posted by teamstrc
Maybe I should clarify:

What I'm curious about is do the silver can get faster after you run them? meaning if I have one at 17250 and after a 5 minute run and it breaks in more it hits 18000, then for those like me that don't know how to tune or "de-tune" them, then we're in trouble. If it gets slower, then well, those of you not happy with your 17250, I'll take two please

Steve
Some do and some don't. A lot depends on what kind of car they were in and how they were maintained. A huge factor is if they have ever been run too hot. If they've been overheated a few times, you can get a motor that still revs up, but will not pull. Those hi-revvin dogs Craig was mentioning.

I have not done much with the new 540J with the CS brushes, but the ones I've seen so far are a tad quicker than the older soft brush ones. A motor going into a race at 17,250 is unlikely to come out at 18,000. Possible in a Mini, but unlikely in GT2 or FF03.

IMO, people should stop freaking out about motors. Most of the motors out there will be legal. With that being said, I had trouble finding a motor in my motor box that was slow enough. But, I only run Minis and I'm very fussy about taking care of my motors.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:53 AM
  #15022  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Tom,
This is not aimed at you, but is a response to your post.
Thinking that a class or a car or a motor or anything else is gonna save onroad is a pipe dream. What is going to save on road is stability by the racers, and the manufacturers.
We have access to the best equipment we've ever had. And yet to some it is more disposable than ever. The lipo war may have tamed down a bit, and maybe the speedo controversy has tapered off, but those are two of the things that really hurt on road racing. That and the appearance of a new class with a different set of rules every six months. Look at how fast VTA strayed from the original concept. It was supposed to be a chance to get a little extra life from your old gear. Instead you had guys showing up with the latest and greatest chassis and electronics. IMO there needs to be 2 TC classes , a mini class and an F1 class, and not just for TCS, but as a general rule for an onroad race program.
No offense taken if none meant, brother. I think we could open an entirely separate discussion string on "rules stability". And even when the rules seemed stable for something like TCS, along comes a manufacturer with a grand new idea for an ESC or a motor or a battery or whatever and convinces everyone at the deepend they've got to have that new demon tweak or they'll be nowhere. I think the battery and motor and ESC manufacturers are as much at fault for this as anyone, maybe even more so. Honestly, someone please tell me who needs a 150C-output LiPo as advertised on this page. Besides me, as I need something to keep up.
I like the general theme of 2 TC classes, an F1 and a Mini class for an onroad program. At least as far as Tamiya goes, it's so nice to think that a properly-tuned M03 is still entirely in the hunt. Maybe not a Nats winner but still a car that a driver can have a good weekend with.

I'm back in Cali, people.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:03 PM
  #15023  
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Originally Posted by Laguna Bozo
Teacher Tom,
You can't call me that unless you tell me what it means... Hickman, you know that Latin stuff... help Tommy out.

Aren't there any Mid or LWB bodies for M06? A short rear-driver can be a real handful!
Now B my friend, how is it you don't think I know Latin? Admittedly I never get to use it with 12 year olds who can't write their last name on their paper and want to use "2" instead of to/two/too because they're never sure which one to use, but still...Romani Itae Domum!
The Miata/Eunos is a med. wheelbase body, as is the Alfa. Honda S800 and Alpine are admittedly SWB. If we were allowed to go long-wheelbase, we could break out the old Porsche Carreras and Boxsters, Mercedes SLK's, Honda S2000's and BMW Z3's. I think the problem there is we're not allowed to run the larger 10th-scale tires those were meant for. But I'll admit that with 60D's it seems intriguing. I think I recall Mr. K. Niino doing a little test of the M05 last fall with a S2000 body and 60D's, but he said he didn't like it. Since K. can in fact hand me my keister in Mini, I'll take his word.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:00 PM
  #15024  
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Tommy, cut that out! You still snuck under telling me about "Boz Outros""...
Good info on bodies. I'm a Tamiya Geek, but not THAT much of a Tamiya Geek...Thanks. Since those long bodies you listed are all OLD and NLA, I'll go with the Nino on this, and try an Alfa. BUT, I really don't think an 06 will EVER beat an 05...(or 03) ...can't race close. Slightest touch=spin out. And you know how we like to "slightly touch" each other when Mini racing... Cuda's right-on. Now a whole new tuning performance level is the goal: huge torque, no RPM's . I'm sure Mr. Hinkley will figure this out quickly...Maybe Grandpa will get back in the game...
Brandon's very interesting recent post says it all (and we've ALL known this for EVER - you gotta drive 'em)...
Ultimate Geekster: I'll see ya'll tomorrow, which is the FIRST DAY of 2011. Please don't get in any trouble tonight...
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:09 PM
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Exclamation Tamiya Racing facility!

The track will be open tomorrow 1-1-11.

Interesting set of numbers?

Happy New Year to all!
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:30 PM
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Max - Isn't that supposed to be the end of the world ? (he, he).
See you tomorrow. No Postman with me so I will shoot to be there by 10:00 AM

Enough about motors, lets talk tires. Since TC cars have to run spec pre-mounts for all races (not just Nationals) but carpet guys car run what they want (but I remember B3's working great on carpet at Seattle Indoor Raceway the year it was carpet), who would like a great deal on some brand new but absolutely useless to me glued and mounted B3 tires (Much-More pink inserts and orange 5-spoke rims) and some brand new A tires (same inserts) ? Would have made more sense to announce the pre-mounts for 2011 Nats so we could use up the tires we had already bought at 2011 Regionals but that aint going to happen. B3's on asphalt in 60 degree weather is going to be fun. I am so happy all these "spec racing" rules is making racing cheaper.....
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:07 AM
  #15027  
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Last time I spoke to Fred (before the nationals) I was told that I can use my own B3's and even old B's for the regionals. I guess that was all forgotten. Not very happy about that, now I have (tamiya) tires & wheels that I cant use for a Tamiya race that I specifically prepared it for.I hope Fred can stick with what he said that the handout tires are only going to be used for the Nationals.

Last edited by R1wurks; 01-01-2011 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:35 AM
  #15028  
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Originally Posted by R1wurks
Last time I spoke to Fred (before the nationals) I was told that I can use my own B3's and even old B's for the regionals. I guess that was all forgotten. Not very happy about that, now I have (tamiya) tires & wheels that I cant use for a Tamiya race that I specifically prepared it for.I hope Fred can stick with what he said that the handout tires are only going to be used for the Nationals.
Suggestion: What about taking your ride to a regional with a carpet track. That way you can use your B3 tires and promote your business as well! That would be a win win for you! BTW... i need to talk about a fan I purchase from you.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:49 AM
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PM sent!

Originally Posted by izzyracer
Suggestion: What about taking your ride to a regional with a carpet track. That way you can use your B3 tires and promote your business as well! That would be a win win for you! BTW... i need to talk about a fan I purchase from you.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:53 AM
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Thanks Izzy! but I live two blocks from the Tamiya track & its the only race that I personally participate in.....
Originally Posted by izzyracer
Suggestion: What about taking your ride to a regional with a carpet track. That way you can use your B3 tires and promote your business as well! That would be a win win for you! BTW... i need to talk about a fan I purchase from you.
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