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Old 12-30-2010, 06:40 PM
  #15001  
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Originally Posted by Granpa
This just a FYI post. The conclusions you reach are your own.

I ran rpm checks on Tuesday for a bunch of the locals. These are the conditions of the test. Motor tester was a Muchmore and the sensor was in good shape. Program #2 or the CTX test was used. The motors were supplied by 5or 6 local racers. 20 or more motors were tested and were random as to condition. There were several of the motors with the CS brushes. Except for a few, all were broken in. The motors were tested with comms cleaned. I did all of the testing.Admittedly too small a sample to draw any definative conclusions, but interesting anyway.

Almost all of the motors would have passed the 17.5k rpm check. About a third to a half of the motors could not reach 17k. Only a couple were over the limit.

Oh, the tester used was checked against two Orion testers I have and was 150 rpm down against both. This is typical for these testers. I used the Muchmore cause that is what Fred has.
I dont doubt what your saying, but you know that there is a variance in the performance of the motors out of the box. If someone were to get a particularly strong one right out of the package and do a nice break in and treat it right, there is a chance that after a weekend of racing that the motor would not pass tech. How likely is it this will happen? Probably not very, but I just think that it would suck for some one to have a good race and not have messed with their motor and end up DQ'd because of production variances.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:22 PM
  #15002  
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
I dont doubt what your saying, but you know that there is a variance in the performance of the motors out of the box. If someone were to get a particularly strong one right out of the package and do a nice break in and treat it right, there is a chance that after a weekend of racing that the motor would not pass tech. How likely is it this will happen? Probably not very, but I just think that it would suck for some one to have a good race and not have messed with their motor and end up DQ'd because of production variances.
You are absolutely correct and I could not agree with you more.

My post was just a FYI post for everyone. Motors were also tested on a couple of other days with similar results. What I gave you was the equivalent of raw data from which you could arrive at your own conclusions. My own analysis of the data led me to certain conclusions or opinions, which I won't reveal cause I could be wrong.

The scenario you described would more than likely wind up with a motor that would flunk the rpm test.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:31 PM
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All I can say is I broke open another box of motors today and after less than 6 minutes of break-in at 7.2 volts with only oil and a little comm drops, every single freakin' motor was at 17,250 @ 7.2 volts. I put one in my Mini and another in my GT2 car, I'll let you know on the 9th whether the RPM has gone Beyond The Threshold.

What we really need in GT2 is an FDR minimum- something like 5.2. That would keep these motors healthy for a whole weekend and guarantee close racing as well.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:50 PM
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Possibly the motor scrutinizing could be done in private and The Powers That Be would be able to allow, if they felt it appropriate, a slight margin for error as the racing progresses and test results warranted leniency?

My $2

I also feel that a fixed gearing for all classes (silver can) could work.

Mini and FF03 are already in this mode although the FF03's max gearing is close to the edge of being unhealthy.
F1 and GT2 could roll with this.
If not, why not?
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:42 PM
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Default Fixed gearing and motor performance

I almost agree with the fixed gearing option going into the GT-2 class except for the internal gearing differences for the TA and TB chassis. I'm not sure that one would have an advantage over the other with the silver can, but other motors gave my TB-03 a total challenge (read Black Can).

I tested a few of my own motors and all except the one from the nats would achieve the 17,250 and this is similar to Grampa's results (from what I can read above). I sense that Fred has found a rule that limits much of the voodoo, but if a motor has strong torque and is limited to 17,000 RPM, then I can see a winner.

See ya soon,

EBR
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:47 PM
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EBR, I don't know anyone other than Ultimate (Retail Price For All Your) Hobbies in Orange that would be stocking bodies. I might be willing to rent out a Miata and an Alpine, though, as I don't have a M06 yet and won't until after the TCS race.[/QUOTE]

Tommy, I might be interested in that rental. I am going to whore the RWD with the Swift body that really doesn't fit, just to drive the car. I see a nice potential for the new chassis as it went together a lot like a sedan. Sense I will not likely race the car (yet), I might go for the BMW Z3 body and run the bigger wheels. Fun is on its way.

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Old 12-30-2010, 09:21 PM
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Ok here is how it works. If you get your motor tested and it hits around 17,250 then great but remember you have three more things to include with that and here they are.

Setup your car so that it works for the track and your driving ability.

Dont get hacked by other cars and have a clean run

Qualify 1,2,3 in your respective heat to consider (track official call) your motor to be tech'd

I think everyone is putting too much into the motor rules and not concentrating on the three mentioned above.

In conclusion if I am running my car and it works perfect, I drive clean, and fast without mistakes and top qualify or in the 2nd or third spot I will automatically expect my motor to be tech'd. At that point if I fail the rpm test/limit then thats on me. I know for sure that when I put my car on the track prior to starting a qual and or main that when I finish the race or round my motor will be within limits. The rules have been given to us to push them as far as we can without exceeding such rules. A silver can motor will not gain 500 rpm (warm of course) from a 5 or 8 min round this I know. All of the testing I do will be just as if it were the day of the race. I go out and dial in the car with a motor thats about a 1,000 rpm ove the limit once I have dialed in the car I bring it back in change packs put in my "race" motor thats with in the rpm rules and I run for 8 min. Bring car back to pits and wait 10 min. Check rpm to ensure I am still with in rules. Very simple if not change motor and repeat process till I get 2 motors I am comfortable running for the day.

Just my 2 cents and yes I want change back!!!
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
This just a FYI post. The conclusions you reach are your own.

I ran rpm checks on Tuesday for a bunch of the locals. These are the conditions of the test. Motor tester was a Muchmore and the sensor was in good shape. Program #2 or the CTX test was used. The motors were supplied by 5or 6 local racers. 20 or more motors were tested and were random as to condition. There were several of the motors with the CS brushes. Except for a few, all were broken in. The motors were tested with comms cleaned. I did all of the testing.Admittedly too small a sample to draw any definative conclusions, but interesting anyway.

Almost all of the motors would have passed the 17.5k rpm check. About a third to a half of the motors could not reach 17k. Only a couple were over the limit.

Oh, the tester used was checked against two Orion testers I have and was 150 rpm down against both. This is typical for these testers. I used the Muchmore cause that is what Fred has.
Ok, I will bite.

My thoughts are you are dead on the numbers. Unless you are a SC expert tuner everybody will be under the limit.

The chaos theory of getting a diamond in the rough is cute but it still has to be cleaned properly to go over 17,500, which is not motor spray. After a few races, rpms will not magically happen without proper cleaning, those in the know understand it.

Fixing a gear ratio in this class so people don't burn up motors is ridiculous. What is next; running TEUBK101 escs, vynal tires, mandating porsche bodies, handing out "adult depends" in case people crash into each other or worse. The class is about motor temperature and gearing. Setting a ratio only favors motor builders. The more rules that are set, the more complicated for tech. Then what happens, people follow the rules for something tech does not check giving the other guy who understands this an unfair advantage. Have seen it many times.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SirSwiftAlot
Ok here is how it works. If you get your motor tested and it hits around 17,250 then great but remember you have three more things to include with that and here they are.

Setup your car so that it works for the track and your driving ability.

Dont get hacked by other cars and have a clean run

Qualify 1,2,3 in your respective heat to consider (track official call) your motor to be tech'd

I think everyone is putting too much into the motor rules and not concentrating on the three mentioned above.

In conclusion if I am running my car and it works perfect, I drive clean, and fast without mistakes and top qualify or in the 2nd or third spot I will automatically expect my motor to be tech'd. At that point if I fail the rpm test/limit then thats on me. I know for sure that when I put my car on the track prior to starting a qual and or main that when I finish the race or round my motor will be within limits. The rules have been given to us to push them as far as we can without exceeding such rules. A silver can motor will not gain 500 rpm (warm of course) from a 5 or 8 min round this I know. All of the testing I do will be just as if it were the day of the race. I go out and dial in the car with a motor thats about a 1,000 rpm ove the limit once I have dialed in the car I bring it back in change packs put in my "race" motor thats with in the rpm rules and I run for 8 min. Bring car back to pits and wait 10 min. Check rpm to ensure I am still with in rules. Very simple if not change motor and repeat process till I get 2 motors I am comfortable running for the day.

Just my 2 cents and yes I want change back!!!
Great post Brandon. Do take exception to one thing tho. Your set up tip would work if it weren't for the fact that most guys don't have a motor that's a thou quicker.

Glad you're back. The ringing in my ears had started to go away too.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
All I can say is I broke open another box of motors today and after less than 6 minutes of break-in at 7.2 volts with only oil and a little comm drops, every single freakin' motor was at 17,250 @ 7.2 volts. I put one in my Mini and another in my GT2 car, I'll let you know on the 9th whether the RPM has gone Beyond The Threshold.

What we really need in GT2 is an FDR minimum- something like 5.2. That would keep these motors healthy for a whole weekend and guarantee close racing as well.
Ok, I think it's time to ask this, just how much difference are the comm drops making? Have you tried the same test with those motors doing everything the same except NOT using any comm drops? If it's enough of a difference, that could be what pushing them over the top....
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:17 PM
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Grandpa that ringing in your ears is from your wife smacking you in the head with a cast iron frying pan for spending so much money and time at this damn "hobby" .

I remember on a few occasions were I won a race and the 2nd and third place motors were faster then mine. NOrcal last year to be excact just ask Brumbly. But I do agree a little with you. SETUP SETUP SETUP SETUP then DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE and if you loose then BLAME BLAME BLAME. Thats what happens when I loose I just call anyone who beat me "CHEATERS"
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:07 AM
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I posted this in the TT01 thread, but thought I'd ask here as many of you have helped the rookies in the spec class.

We're sponsoring a couple of local rookies to run the TT01 spec class at the upcoming TCS. Can anyone tell me if there's any difference between the three legal tires?

Racing Slicks (50454), Racing Radials (50419), Racing Semi Slick Tires (50810)


Thanks!
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:49 AM
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Exclamation Tamiya Racing facility!

Track will open at 10:00am tomorrow
FYI
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:52 AM
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Oy, vey. Nothing changes in this world, I guess.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Great post Brandon. Do take exception to one thing tho. Your set up tip would work if it weren't for the fact that most guys don't have a motor that's a thou quicker.

Glad you're back. The ringing in my ears had started to go away too.
Grandpa,
Is not the key here is how quickly the Motor get's to 17.5K RPM?
SH
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