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Old 12-29-2010, 01:06 PM
  #14986  
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Default Don't have to shovel rain--unless in Laguna Beach

Originally Posted by Laguna Bozo
OK Marty, what's "Boz Outros"? Sounds like "Old Bozo"... or maybe "stinky Old Bozo"...
Doc, yeah, I mentioned that Fred didn't trust Tekin anymore, with understandably good reason, but they're still trick little units...and a better than most company to deal with fried ones.
Tommy, you're coming home just in time for more bad weather. Sorry... FF03's are haulin' good with SC's, but 3.85 may be just a bit too much gear. All my test motors are a little faster than 17500, so we'll see...
Kuda, whadya learn tody when it got COLDER? Your car looked GREAT mid-day
Boz Outros, I'll be glad to just get wet for a few days instead of wet, cold and sweaty from shoveling hunks of ice. I hope your place in LB didn't get too muddy and that you and Mandy are warm and dry. I'm on the train from Chicago to El Lay right now (just passing through Downers Grove) and should be back Friday.
Interesting that you guys think 3.85 is too much gear in cool weather. Motors getting that hot after 5 min?

EBR, I don't know anyone other than Ultimate (Retail Price For All Your) Hobbies in Orange that would be stocking bodies. I might be willing to rent out a Miata and an Alpine, though, as I don't have a M06 yet and won't until after the TCS race.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:13 PM
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We will have Alfas and Alpines next week.

Tom, I'm offended


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Old 12-29-2010, 01:26 PM
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Hi Slickdude,

The 3.85 ratio isn't too high although it is close but it is the limit set by Fred as being as high as you can go and still get the cover on.
I had it down to 3.82 using 53/78 and got the cover on.

Fred, is that gonna be a fail or will this new info allow us to gear this way?

No problem going to the 54/80 tho.

WOW, PAGE 1000
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:17 PM
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Default Beautiful downtown Downers Grove

Teacher Tom,
You can't call me that unless you tell me what it means... Hickman, you know that Latin stuff... help Tommy out.
Friday is New Years Eve, No? Happy Everyone!
RE gears, "you guys" is only me, and I think the motor I was using was more of a rever, not a grunter. It was down on slow exit punch, but really hauled on the top. Heat was not an issue. Air was about 65*, all of us are running fans, and I don't think anyone over 140*. Cuda did get one REALLY hot the other day, but that was pre-fan with "funny" gear ratios And he didn't actually kill it!
Aren't there any Mid or LWB bodies for M06? A short rear-driver can be a real handful!
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Slick
Yeah, you know. Just like sedans were going to save on-road. Just like F103GT's were going to save on-road. Just like LiPo's were going to save on road. Just like rubber tires for F1's were going to save on-road. Just like spec BL speedo's and motors were going to save on-road. And just like FF's are going to save on-road.
You know, after a while, even Superman looks at Lois Lane and says, "That's enough, babe. There's other people on the burning bus I gotta save."
I really thought RCGT was the right idea, and the cars looked so cool.
Tom,
This is not aimed at you, but is a response to your post.
Thinking that a class or a car or a motor or anything else is gonna save onroad is a pipe dream. What is going to save on road is stability by the racers, and the manufacturers.
We have access to the best equipment we've ever had. And yet to some it is more disposable than ever. The lipo war may have tamed down a bit, and maybe the speedo controversy has tapered off, but those are two of the things that really hurt on road racing. That and the appearance of a new class with a different set of rules every six months. Look at how fast VTA strayed from the original concept. It was supposed to be a chance to get a little extra life from your old gear. Instead you had guys showing up with the latest and greatest chassis and electronics. IMO there needs to be 2 TC classes , a mini class and an F1 class, and not just for TCS, but as a general rule for an onroad race program.
The manufacturers need to slow down in terms of how often they bring a new or updated chassis to market, and the electronics need to slow down as well.
I am not against progress or the advancement of technology, but there needs to be some sort of limitation or timeline so that a racer can get a certain lifespan out of his or her stuff. Likewise a newbie coming into the hobby doesnt get scared away by a radical spending curve.
On another note, while I am not against the 2011 rules package, I have a sneaking suspicion that based on how narrow the bandwidth is on silvercan RPM limits, how many races are going to be lost in tech?
from what I am reading here, if you run the motor one too many heats or gear it one tooth higher than you should, you run the risk of breaking it in too much and running it out of spec. For a three day race that could mean 2-3 motors. If you attend more than one event, the cost starts to add up. I know that FMW was between a rock and a hard place with this, but I am just curious to see how cost effective this really ends up being.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
On another note, while I am not against the 2011 rules package, I have a sneaking suspicion that based on how narrow the bandwidth is on silvercan RPM limits, how many races are going to be lost in tech?
from what I am reading here, if you run the motor one too many heats or gear it one tooth higher than you should, you run the risk of breaking it in too much and running it out of spec. For a three day race that could mean 2-3 motors. If you attend more than one event, the cost starts to add up. I know that FMW was between a rock and a hard place with this, but I am just curious to see how cost effective this really ends up being.
I will now be selling all my old, low rpm motors under the "red splotch" label so you can be assured of staying with the limit! Underperformance at any price!!!
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:23 PM
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Exclamation Tamiya Racing facility!

O.K. To whom it may concern,
It appears that tomorrow the track should be dry so we will open tomorrow around 10:00am so if you want to weather the wind and the cold.
Hey this is Chicago weather, right Tom?
We will be open as long as no rain is on the track.
See you tomorrow.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
(F)from what I am reading here, if you run the motor one too many heats or gear it one tooth higher than you should, you run the risk of breaking it in too much and running it out of spec. For a three day race that could mean 2-3 motors. If you attend more than one event, the cost starts to add up. I know that FMW was between a rock and a hard place with this, but I am just curious to see how cost effective this really ends up being.
Brad,
A minimum gear ratio for GT-2 would prevent overheating and needless "killing" of silvercans before their time. FF03 has a minimum gear ratio. If Mr. FMW ammended the GT-2 rules with a min gear ratio, that could prevent 2 - 3 motor weekend races.

RobK,
Nice avitar. That didn't take too long. Know any 18's or 14's?
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 414MPH
Brad,
A minimum gear ratio for GT-2 would prevent overheating and needless "killing" of silvercans before their time. FF03 has a minimum gear ratio. If Mr. FMW ammended the GT-2 rules with a min gear ratio, that could prevent 2 - 3 motor weekend races.

RobK,
Nice avitar. That didn't take too long. Know any 18's or 14's?
Marty,
Agreed, I wasnt so much talking about overheating, as I was overseating.
If someone wants to go fast bad enough it will be a 3 motor weekend.
Did you get the message that I called?
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:24 AM
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Default Random thoughts on technology

Just some thoughts on current RC products "killing" the sport.

Didn't ROAR approve V208 Tekin software ? If they did and found out later it had timing, then didn't ROAR fail ?

For those that say how lipo's and esc's change so fast, I guess the memory has faded from the days of nimh's going from 3300 to 3700 to 3800 in just one year. Oh, and don't forget guys charging at 10 amps to get maximum power from the battery and killing them in one weekend. Or those good old days of brushed motors when you had a $ 150 motor lathe with the $ 100 diamond tip cutter, the $ 150-200 motor dyno, cutting motors every run and replacing brushes every 1-2 runs and if you raced regularly, going through a few motors each season. Don't forget the brushed esc companies trying to build a better mouse trap so their product was faster than the competition. Oh yeah, and buying your motor from the tuner that had the latest tweaks and even manufactures constantly upgrading their motors to be better so PEOPLE WOULD BUY THEIR EQUIPMENT. If you want to run older equipment or technology, that is your choice. But why would you still expect to be at the front of the pack ? Look at F1 test ban to "save the smaller teams money". Result ? Smaller teams are farther behind because they can not afford the high end simulators and wind tunnels like the big teams and because they can not real time test, fall behind.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:49 AM
  #14996  
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Hi Max,

Will the track be opened on the 31st Friday ?

Thanks !

Anthony
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:10 AM
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Default Silvercans

This just a FYI post. The conclusions you reach are your own.

I ran rpm checks on Tuesday for a bunch of the locals. These are the conditions of the test. Motor tester was a Muchmore and the sensor was in good shape. Program #2 or the CTX test was used. The motors were supplied by 5or 6 local racers. 20 or more motors were tested and were random as to condition. There were several of the motors with the CS brushes. Except for a few, all were broken in. The motors were tested with comms cleaned. I did all of the testing.Admittedly too small a sample to draw any definative conclusions, but interesting anyway.

Almost all of the motors would have passed the 17.5k rpm check. About a third to a half of the motors could not reach 17k. Only a couple were over the limit.

Oh, the tester used was checked against two Orion testers I have and was 150 rpm down against both. This is typical for these testers. I used the Muchmore cause that is what Fred has.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:28 AM
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Default 2011

Happy holidays and best wishes for 2011 to: Tom, Granpa and all the forum racers and enthusiast.

Thank you for keeping RC and F1 Hot with your post, keep it up.

Cheers,
Marcos


Is your future looking black?
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:21 PM
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"Red Splotch" label... Now that's funny!
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Just some thoughts on current RC products "killing" the sport.

Didn't ROAR approve V208 Tekin software ? If they did and found out later it had timing, then didn't ROAR fail ?

For those that say how lipo's and esc's change so fast, I guess the memory has faded from the days of nimh's going from 3300 to 3700 to 3800 in just one year. Oh, and don't forget guys charging at 10 amps to get maximum power from the battery and killing them in one weekend. Or those good old days of brushed motors when you had a $ 150 motor lathe with the $ 100 diamond tip cutter, the $ 150-200 motor dyno, cutting motors every run and replacing brushes every 1-2 runs and if you raced regularly, going through a few motors each season. Don't forget the brushed esc companies trying to build a better mouse trap so their product was faster than the competition. Oh yeah, and buying your motor from the tuner that had the latest tweaks and even manufactures constantly upgrading their motors to be better so PEOPLE WOULD BUY THEIR EQUIPMENT. If you want to run older equipment or technology, that is your choice. But why would you still expect to be at the front of the pack ? Look at F1 test ban to "save the smaller teams money". Result ? Smaller teams are farther behind because they can not afford the high end simulators and wind tunnels like the big teams and because they can not real time test, fall behind.
I don't disagree with you on any of that. I don't miss brushed motors one bit,
And I dont want to run old technology, never have. The initial promise of Lipos was that you wouldnt have to buy new batteries every 6 months to be competitive. Then the C rating wars began. Some said C rating didnt mean anything, others were adamant that it was the difference between winning and losing. It seemed like there was a new hot battery coming out every couple of months, and at $100 and up for a good pack, for me that was too much to swallow, especially when these packs were supposed to be good for 1000+ cycles with seemingly no performance degradation. To me that is just wasteful.
And you are absolutely right, ROAR failed big time as a sanctioning body by not controlling the transition of new technology.
My beef with this is that the classes keep jumping around. First 10.5 was supposed to be like 19T , then it went to 13.5 and then 17.5, and then full blown open mod, which is really too fast for most tracks on the club level.
The first couple of times the classes shifted they obsoleted the motors. I have a 10.5 and a 13.5 that have not even a handful of races on them, and nowhere to play.
And you are also correct in saying that the round cell development was ridiculous as well, although the competitive lifecycle of those cells was so short to begin with that by the time the new cells arrived, you pretty much had to get some to run up front in the A.
My original intention was not to debate tech advances, it was more about longer life for the classes themselves. Like it or not onroad racers are very flakey. I have seen their stupidity cause a track owner to stop running onroad.
The reality is that a lot of people have walked away from onroad because the spending was endless, and for no good reason. Sure there is spending in dirt racing, but not at nearly the rate that it is in onroad. I myself don't care for dirt, but I understand why it is so popular.
If we dont get a handle on this soon, onroad will go the way of 12th scale and oval. Sure they still run those, but they arent nearly what they used to be.
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