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Etiquette for letting faster cars pass in qualifying

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Etiquette for letting faster cars pass in qualifying

Old 11-09-2022, 05:07 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by dlruk
You only need to go 2ft wide to let them through
Yep, I see so many go way out of the way to let the faster car by.
Just go a little wide at the next turn and you lose very little time.
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Old 11-09-2022, 08:12 AM
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Why should I reward a driver who crashed by moving over for them? What if this was a race for TQ? Would you simply move over because their faster or would you try and hold your position? This isn't a scenario where the fastest guy on the track starts mid pack. We would all agree then that the etiquette is to move over.
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Old 11-09-2022, 08:41 AM
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Can't give a straight answer, it really depends on several factors. Generally, I prefer to let the faster driver pass me and then I can follow his line which makes me faster and collectively we can finish with faster results overall because defensive blocking is slower and serves no purpose in quals for club racing and possible a big event.

Only exception I make is for series races where qual results are counted for points, if a driver of comparable skill has wrecked then I will not yield my position if I know we're battling for points, sorry... not sorry. Usually in this case I'm faster in some track sections where the other driver is faster in other sections.... this problem would typically be avoided if the RD in my area would do roll call starts but that's another issue in itself when there are guys who are fast but not consistent.... my biggest weapon is my consistency and that's kind of what this issue is about with the OP's question. Yeah I could definitely turn hotter laps that are a tenth or two faster, but it defeats the point if you lose 3-5 seconds being marshalled just 1 time.

Side note, last year's series race I made the podium by 1 point and that can be attributed to qualifiers just as much as the mains.

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Old 11-09-2022, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by racer1812
Why should I reward a driver who crashed by moving over for them? What if this was a race for TQ? Would you simply move over because their faster or would you try and hold your position? This isn't a scenario where the fastest guy on the track starts mid pack. We would all agree then that the etiquette is to move over.
Do you think it's good sportsmanship to deliberately block a faster car during qualifying?

Keep in mind the rules for the mains are different.
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:09 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by billdelong
Can't give a straight answer, it really depends on several factors. Generally, I prefer to let the faster driver pass me and then I can follow his line which makes me faster and collectively we can finish with faster results overall because defensive blocking is slower and serves no purpose in quals for club racing and possible a big event.

Only exception I make is for series races where qual results are counted for points, if a driver of comparable skill has wrecked then I will not yield my position if I know we're battling for points, sorry... not sorry. Usually in this case I'm faster in some track sections where the other driver is faster in other sections.... this problem would typically be avoided if the RD in my area would do roll call starts but that's another issue in itself when there are guys who are fast but not consistent.... my biggest weapon is my consistency and that's kind of what this issue is about with the OP's question. Yeah I could definitely turn hotter laps that are a tenth or two faster, but it defeats the point if you lose 3-5 seconds being marshalled just 1 time.

Side note, last year's series race I made the podium by 1 point and that can be attributed to qualifiers just as much as the mains.
While I'm also someone who's willing to give up a few tenths on my hot lap for a clean run and hope to set a faster overall time than some of the faster cars, car 1 could have also lost position due to an incident with no fault of their own (taken out by a lapped car or stomped on by a busy marshal). How would you know during the race what the cause for the current track position is? All you could easily see is that someone with faster lap times is right behind you and could go faster in principle.
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rc10since1993
While I'm also someone who's willing to give up a few tenths on my hot lap for a clean run and hope to set a faster overall time than some of the faster cars, car 1 could have also lost position due to an incident with no fault of their own (taken out by a lapped car or stomped on by a busy marshal). How would you know during the race what the cause for the current track position is? All you could easily see is that someone with faster lap times is right behind you and could go faster in principle.

A good RD will call out the position of each driver (or at least the top 5) and from there everyone should know where they are if it's appropriate to pass or not. There have been times where a driver ahead of me is in 2nd and I'm in 1st, neither of us has wrecked and I'm pulling on him only because it's easier for me to chase than lead, that's my driving style and something that I need to improve upon. I will tell the guy to run his race and not worry about me getting into him, we both have the opportunity to get a clean race and I'd still get TQ even if I'm a second behind him on the track, I'm really 8+ seconds ahead on the clock. Not uncommon for me to hit TQ with my consistency and see faster drivers behind me for the mains which makes things very interesting to say the least.


My style of driving is to play follow the leader and I like to see a long single file line of cars (that's my therapy) ... no need to make aggressive passing, just wait for the car ahead to make a mistake, things are so much less stressful all the way around. If you want to be my friend after the race, simply wait for me to be corner marshaled if you take me out with an aggressive pass and I will return the favor. Accidents happen and I get into other drivers unintentionally, but I take ownership if I caused them to need marshaling and I will wait up, it's just plain decency.


If you're lap traffic and the RD isn't calling it out, I'll ride your tail for 5-6 corners, then I'll start tapping your rear end and if you don't get the message by then, then I will block pass and punt you off the track if I have someone closing the gap behind me. That doesn't always work out and sometimes we both wreck so I try to avoid the block pass and save it as a last resort in the mains, I tend to be less forgiving in the quals unless I already know I've secured a spot in the A group.


In contrast, if I'm driving at a big event with other cars I don't recognize, I give the benefit of the doubt and let someone pass even if they keep wrecking... it sucks and cost me 3 positions for the A main at a big race a couple weeks back when I had an amazing run but faster driver wrecked/bobbled 4 times in front of me and would keep catching up, I didn't know who he was so I went extra wide to give him room knowing I gave up at least 1 second each pass and that hurt, but I rationalized that it hurt less than if he took me out each time if I had chose to block him. I would later get to know him and discover his lap times were 1 sec faster on average for a 31 sec hot lap.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong
A good RD will call out the position of each driver (or at least the top 5) and from there everyone should know where they are if it's appropriate to pass or not. There have been times where a driver ahead of me is in 2nd and I'm in 1st, neither of us has wrecked and I'm pulling on him only because it's easier for me to chase than lead, that's my driving style and something that I need to improve upon. I will tell the guy to run his race and not worry about me getting into him, we both have the opportunity to get a clean race and I'd still get TQ even if I'm a second behind him on the track, I'm really 8+ seconds ahead on the clock. Not uncommon for me to hit TQ with my consistency and see faster drivers behind me for the mains which makes things very interesting to say the least.


My style of driving is to play follow the leader and I like to see a long single file line of cars (that's my therapy) ... no need to make aggressive passing, just wait for the car ahead to make a mistake, things are so much less stressful all the way around. If you want to be my friend after the race, simply wait for me to be corner marshaled if you take me out with an aggressive pass and I will return the favor. Accidents happen and I get into other drivers unintentionally, but I take ownership if I caused them to need marshaling and I will wait up, it's just plain decency.


If you're lap traffic and the RD isn't calling it out, I'll ride your tail for 5-6 corners, then I'll start tapping your rear end and if you don't get the message by then, then I will block pass and punt you off the track if I have someone closing the gap behind me. That doesn't always work out and sometimes we both wreck so I try to avoid the block pass and save it as a last resort in the mains, I tend to be less forgiving in the quals unless I already know I've secured a spot in the A group.


In contrast, if I'm driving at a big event with other cars I don't recognize, I give the benefit of the doubt and let someone pass even if they keep wrecking... it sucks and cost me 3 positions for the A main at a big race a couple weeks back when I had an amazing run but faster driver wrecked/bobbled 4 times in front of me and would keep catching up, I didn't know who he was so I went extra wide to give him room knowing I gave up at least 1 second each pass and that hurt, but I rationalized that it hurt less than if he took me out each time if I had chose to block him. I would later get to know him and discover his lap times were 1 sec faster on average for a 31 sec hot lap.
I hope you're joking about punting them. Just ask them to yield instead of intentionally running into them.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Roelof
I do not know if you watch F1 but during qualify blocking a guy on a fast lap will result in a heavy talk with the stewards. So no, in qualify you are not racing for position but sepparatly driving an own time, blocking will ruin the other his time and as I did mention, you will not drive faster either so it has no use. For sure when there are more qualifying rounds making your blocking totally undone if he has free space on the track in another qualify.
We're not racing F1. It's a completely different format with different rules. In F1 it's a single hot lap. Yielding generally doesn't cost anything, that lap will be ignored. When qualifying in RC do you also have your teammate sacrifice a lap to give you a draft tow?
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
I hope you're joking about punting them. Just ask them to yield instead of intentionally running into them.
I have rarely punted someone out of spite, but not gonna lie, it was done out of retaliation and something that could've been avoided if the RD did a better job calling out traffic, so many issues like this can be avoided if our RD would do roll call starts, most people know where they stack and what order they should begin but I'm sure every track has that one driver who feels they belong up front and that same driver blocks everyone else in the quals. I try to start ahead of "THAT" driver when I can, but if I can't get lined up fast enough, I'll start dead last and wait for the field to come around so I have almost a full empty track, what sucks when I do this is that it slows down the race program in an effort to avoid the blocker, who is a fast guy, but not as fast as he thinks he is


Originally Posted by gigaplex
We're not racing F1. It's a completely different format with different rules. In F1 it's a single hot lap. Yielding generally doesn't cost anything, that lap will be ignored. When qualifying in RC do you also have your teammate sacrifice a lap to give you a draft tow?
I recently raced at SDRC and the way they do their Monday night race is just 1 qual and the mains... so instead of sorting by 5 min qual time, they sort by fastest 5 laps which allows someone to have a bad race but still qualify where they need to be. Only drawback with this method is I found folks were driving more aggressive and their consistency was off.... yeah they beat me on the hot 5 lap average but I was able to secure the win in the main being a more consistent driver Stats from the race here where it shows me finishing 2nd but the 1st place driver was the only one running Mod, everyone else was running 13.5:

https://sdrc.liverc.com/results/?p=v...ult&id=3900621
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Old 11-09-2022, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong
I have rarely punted someone out of spite, but not gonna lie, it was done out of retaliation and something that could've been avoided if the RD did a better job calling out traffic, so many issues like this can be avoided if our RD would do roll call starts, most people know where they stack and what order they should begin but I'm sure every track has that one driver who feels they belong up front and that same driver blocks everyone else in the quals. I try to start ahead of "THAT" driver when I can, but if I can't get lined up fast enough, I'll start dead last and wait for the field to come around so I have almost a full empty track, what sucks when I do this is that it slows down the race program in an effort to avoid the blocker, who is a fast guy, but not as fast as he thinks he is




I recently raced at SDRC and the way they do their Monday night race is just 1 qual and the mains... so instead of sorting by 5 min qual time, they sort by fastest 5 laps which allows someone to have a bad race but still qualify where they need to be. Only drawback with this method is I found folks were driving more aggressive and their consistency was off.... yeah they beat me on the hot 5 lap average but I was able to secure the win in the main being a more consistent driver Stats from the race here where it shows me finishing 2nd but the 1st place driver was the only one running Mod, everyone else was running 13.5:

https://sdrc.liverc.com/results/?p=v...ult&id=3900621
Why does the RD need to do a roll call? You're using LiveTime, the software does that automatically.
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Old 11-09-2022, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Why does the RD need to do a roll call? You're using LiveTime, the software does that automatically.

Many tracks do not sort anyone for quals, when the tone goes off it's a gaggle... most often people line up in position where they believe they should be sorted but there are some who spoil it and either line up at the front or too close to the front when they should be mid pack or sometimes at the back. What really irks me is when I've already lined up for position and a slower driver cuts in line when everyone is already lined up in single file... it's the RD's responsibility to get this sorted out, because when 2 cars are side by side, it's not clear who's going next and if I was in line first then I feel I need to go when it's my turn and then the jack wagon next to me proceeds to cross the line immediately alongside me and ruins our start! Shame on the driver for cutting in line and shame on the RD for not fixing the issue before the start of the qual. I've learned never to let anyone line up at my side, I'll either inch forward and if they continue to inch up, then I'll go to the back and play the 1 lap gap game which slows down the program adding an extra lap after the race has finished


When I raced at SDRC it was a pleasure when the RD roll called out the starting order for everyone to line up and it made for a VERY stress free experience... this just needs to be industry standard, but the reality is that it's not my track so I don't get to make the rules, but it does feel nice to "vent" here on the forums, ha!
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Old 11-09-2022, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong
Many tracks do not sort anyone for quals, when the tone goes off it's a gaggle... most often people line up in position where they believe they should be sorted but there are some who spoil it and either line up at the front or too close to the front when they should be mid pack or sometimes at the back. What really irks me is when I've already lined up for position and a slower driver cuts in line when everyone is already lined up in single file... it's the RD's responsibility to get this sorted out, because when 2 cars are side by side, it's not clear who's going next and if I was in line first then I feel I need to go when it's my turn and then the jack wagon next to me proceeds to cross the line immediately alongside me and ruins our start! Shame on the driver for cutting in line and shame on the RD for not fixing the issue before the start of the qual. I've learned never to let anyone line up at my side, I'll either inch forward and if they continue to inch up, then I'll go to the back and play the 1 lap gap game which slows down the program adding an extra lap after the race has finished


When I raced at SDRC it was a pleasure when the RD roll called out the starting order for everyone to line up and it made for a VERY stress free experience... this just needs to be industry standard, but the reality is that it's not my track so I don't get to make the rules, but it does feel nice to "vent" here on the forums, ha!
LiveTime will automatically randomly "sort" drivers and call them independently if the RD doesn't manually sort it. I'd recommend putting pressure on them to set up the software correctly. It should be a trivial fix.
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Old 11-09-2022, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
LiveTime will automatically randomly "sort" drivers and call them independently if the RD doesn't manually sort it. I'd recommend putting pressure on them to set up the software correctly. It should be a trivial fix.
trust me, I tried.. no idea what the reason is for not doing it, perhaps they feel it slows the program or is too difficult for the RD to mess with (maybe some other reason), they choose to only do it for novice.

In contrast, they make sure everyone lines up on the driver stand in qualifying order for the mains and that's a bigger issue for me where very few tracks I've raced elsewhere will implement that rule. I've been annoyed at some places where I've already stood in line and someone cuts around me before drivers have even walked off the stand from the previous race.

If I had to choose the lesser of two evils, I'll take my preferred spot on the stand over roll call start in quals! I've learned to stand where nobody else wants to be at tracks that don't follow this rule which is one of the first questions I ask every RD when I visit a new track.

Last edited by billdelong; 11-10-2022 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 11-10-2022, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jiml
Do you think it's good sportsmanship to deliberately block a faster car during qualifying?

Keep in mind the rules for the mains are different.
Blocking and holding a solid racing line aren't the same thing.
Again, if you make a mistake.. why should I reward you by moving over? This is all very situational. If you're a second a lap faster we're not even having this conversation, I'll move over regardless. BUT, if we're near equal in pace/speed, no I'm not moving over..nor would I expect someone to move for me.
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Old 11-11-2022, 11:37 AM
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if they are faster they can go around, why drop my time to benefit them?
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