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Bad driving vs bad set up, beginner questions

Old 05-01-2020, 08:59 PM
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Hi,
I have a question regarding whether a racer who's driving both modified and stock on the same track solely can have the same setup in both kits despite the power difference?
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Old 05-04-2020, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedmar007 View Post
Hi,
I have a question regarding whether a racer who's driving both modified and stock on the same track solely can have the same setup in both kits despite the power difference?
The short answer is yes, however...

The only time I've seen someone race the same car and/or setup in classes with different motors is when the lap times have been close, the bodies have been the same, and the same type of tires work in both classes. Here are examples I've seen:

Onroad - small indoor track where stock was 21.5 motors and mod was 17.5 motors
Offroad - small indoor track where stock was 17.5 motors and mod was 13.5 motors

As the main straight and/or motor speeds increase, it will require setup changes to have the car perform optimally. While a car in each class may have started with the same exact setup, the best cars in each class will have noticeable changes in their setups. These changes may include different damping rates, bodies that affect downforce/steering, or tires (if allowed per the rules).

One of the most humbling experiences a racer can have is turning better lap times when racing stock classes as compared to their own lap times when racing a mod/faster class. While some of this will come down to racer experience/ability, it can also include not having a car setup best for the speeds it is being raced. But if you are racing 2 different speed classes and your setups are identical, chances are that the setup on both cars is not optimal (unless there is some type of unique track/class circumstances that limit what type of setup needs to be used).
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:13 PM
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Thanks for that advice.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:23 PM
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Electric motors have a natural drag which nitros doesn’t. Adjusting drag and neutral parameters can manipulate the way the rc handles in the air with the motor and if 4wd steering. Drag also has effects on handling in and out of turns and on/off power, while different than mechanical brakes that stop the wheels while the engine is running in that sense while drag is from the motor that is still spinning down in a neutral set point and when punching it at correct times can line up the rc.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:48 PM
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As you mentioned 2wd buggy, it reminded me friend of mine who pushed me away from 2wd buggy to 2wd truck as buggies will tolerate no mistakes compared to stadium truck. So if you want to stay in 2wd buggy realm, your feelings about not getting everything perfect are there because of difficulty of this car type and it will get better over time.

You could also try or get other type of car to find out if it suits you better, nobody can do everything perfect
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Old 05-23-2020, 06:10 AM
  #21  
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I don't think messing with expo is good thing to teach a new driver. The steering is no longer linear and it does weird things when you are trying to do mid corner corrections. I would say the best is to mess with dual rates. Run as little steering as you and still be able to rotate the tightest corner on the track. When you dial down the dual rate, by default, it will make your steering less sensitive by having your movement of the wheel translate to less movement on the car, but it will actually be linear. As you get faster and more consistent and want to push the car harder, then you can put the steering back in and it will react faster and it will actually need more steering angle as you are cornering with more speed. Also get the fastest servo that you can and make sure you radio has low latency. That affect how connected you are with the car. If the servo is slow as dirt, then all the corrections will be a step or two too slow and you will always be chasing the car, same with a very slow laggy transmitter.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:16 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by s14_tat View Post
I don't think messing with expo is good thing to teach a new driver. The steering is no longer linear and it does weird things when you are trying to do mid corner corrections. I would say the best is to mess with dual rates. Run as little steering as you and still be able to rotate the tightest corner on the track. When you dial down the dual rate, by default, it will make your steering less sensitive by having your movement of the wheel translate to less movement on the car, but it will actually be linear. As you get faster and more consistent and want to push the car harder, then you can put the steering back in and it will react faster and it will actually need more steering angle as you are cornering with more speed. Also get the fastest servo that you can and make sure you radio has low latency. That affect how connected you are with the car. If the servo is slow as dirt, then all the corrections will be a step or two too slow and you will always be chasing the car, same with a very slow laggy transmitter.
I see you have very little on the expo and what it does...it only has limits in the 1st turn of wheel not throughout entire steering range.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by the rc guy View Post
I see you have very little on the expo and what it does...it only has limits in the 1st turn of wheel not throughout entire steering range.
Expo is a curve, it is not linear. The curve is flatter in the initial movement and then it ramps up exponentially like a wall hence the name. The greater the expo, the more exaggerated it gets. So if you really dull out the initial throw, right after it will almost go full travel. Messing with dual rate actually affects the steering in linear rate at the expense of maximum steering travel.

Edit: no i didn't need to look this up. Read my original post. But look at what I am saying in graph form. Most high-end radios even graph it out for you

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Old 05-24-2020, 01:17 PM
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Expo (or curve) should not be as dramatic as you describe. A lot of people use it in small amounts, around +/-10 is reasonable.
I use it mostly on throttle, adding near neutral for stock, and softening it for mod.
If you don't believe me, watch this video from Michael Orlowski. I don't remember where it is in the video, but he discusses Expo.


Originally Posted by s14_tat View Post
Expo is a curve, it is not linear. The curve is flatter in the initial movement and then it ramps up exponentially like a wall hence the name. The greater the expo, the more exaggerated it gets. So if you really dull out the initial throw, right after it will almost go full travel. Messing with dual rate actually affects the steering in linear rate at the expense of maximum steering travel.

Edit: no i didn't need to look this up. Read my original post. But look at what I am saying in graph form. Most high-end radios even graph it out for you

Last edited by heyscottn; 05-24-2020 at 01:19 PM. Reason: added video link
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Old 05-24-2020, 01:24 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Pedmar007 View Post
Hi,
I have a question regarding whether a racer who's driving both modified and stock on the same track solely can have the same setup in both kits despite the power difference?
In my experience, the slight weight differences require different setups. For example, my mod esc and motor are both heavier than my stock equipment. I'm no setup guru so I can't seem to get them to match in handling, but I can say that with the same setup they handle differently.
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Last edited by heyscottn; 05-24-2020 at 01:24 PM. Reason: typ
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:40 PM
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Maybe I am speaking anecdotally from personal experience. I used to use steering expo as well but I just couldn't drive consistently and it was hard for me to do mid corner corrections. The local racer told me just turn it off learn to drive at linear and if the car is too reactive you dial back the dual rate where the car can still do all the hair pins and then slowly dial your steering back up as you get more faster. That seemed to do the trick for me for the mini z, usgt and stock 2wd buggy for both Astro turf and carpet.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:16 PM
  #27  
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ive used expo for steering for 25+ years only thing it did was correct my slight shake in my rt hand.. set it at -12 work thru turns and no straight difference going into a turn...
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:08 AM
  #28  
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Hi Guys,

My question for those who may have some experience with this regards using traction compound on an outdoor parking lot that's being used as a nitro 1/8 and 1/10 plus electric 1/10 touring car race track for yrs. The level of racing consistency hasn't been enough to accumulate the black line marking that is normally seen on major nitro tracks. My question is would using traction compound in 1/10 touring car racing 13.5 Blinky be beneficial given all that's done for track maintenance is using a gas air blower to clean the track before any racing is done? I'm new to this, so seeing that traction compound is commonly used on purposely built RC tracks, I wanted to know if using compound on a such a track would be of any great use? What I should also mention is the area is solely used to race RC, there's no allowance for vehicles to be parked in that area.
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:11 PM
  #29  
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+1 for negitive expo depending on setup, sometime you need that first 1-2* to avoid a crash and the 4-5* puts you into the turn marshal. Trying to clean it up. with that said depending on the car ill go as high as -35, and id rather do this then readjust the toe, to gett eh same... similer effect. it also quick to change back if i found i don't need it that day or went to far.
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