Big race formats

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Old 03-14-2018, 08:13 AM
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Default Big race formats

So I'm a newly returned racer, having been gone for almost 20 years. I had these discussions way back then, and having just finished the ROAR indoor nats (super awesome event at an even super-er, awesome-er facility ) the question still persists.

Why is there only one 6 minute race for everyone except for A Main racers? The idea of travelling vast distances for 6 or 12 minutes of racing (18 maybe) seems a bit much. My idea?

The events typically start on Thursday, with practice, and seeding practice. Many people are already there on Wed practicing. Not all, but hey, it's a big race. If doing well is important to you, take an extra day off. There would be open practice in the am on Thursday. Open practice times are used to 'seed' the one round of actual seeding practice that will run, starting at 11:30. With that in mind, this would be my proposed schedule, with various notes on each day:

Note: the schedule is based on a 100 driver, 200 entry event. Adjustments would be needed if the numbers were significantly different

Wed: open practice all day

Thursday:

08:00am - 12:00pm open practice, short rounds
01:00pm - 03:30pm seeding practice, 5 min rounds
04:00pm - 08:30pm 1st round of qualifying, 6 min rounds

Notes: There will be a re-seed for the 2nd round of qualifying

Friday:

07:00am - 10:00am open practice by class, 3 minute rounds
10:30am - 03:00pm 2nd round of qualifying, 6 min rounds
03:30pm - 08:00pm 3rd round of qualifying, 6 min rounds

Notes: no re-seeding on Friday

Saturday:

07:00am - 09:00am open practice, 2 minute rounds
09:15am - 12:00pm LCQ, 5 min rounds
01:00pm - ??:??pm Mains, round 1. No triple A's

Sunday:

07:00am - 09:00am open practice, 2 minute rounds
10:00am - ??:??pm Mains, 2nd round, with double A's

Notes: consider B winner bumps to A, possible 3rd A being double point, or some such, just for drama

-----------------

So as you can see, the point here is to get more actual races in. If that schedule is too compressed, I'd scrap the LCQ and have just three rounds of qualifying. IMO this is an easy win compromise-wise when we get another actual race in exchange.

Also, please save the 'you don't know what's involved' stuff. I've run bowling tournaments with over 100 people and several hundred entries, and paintball tournaments with over 500 people. I do know what's involved in making and keeping a schedule, logistics of games/rounds/etc against a running clock, etc.

Anyway, what do you guys think? It's just food for thought and conversation, and not in any way meant as an indictment on anyone who runs races or whatever. I had a ball at Nats, and can't wait to do more big races!

Last edited by dietDrThunder; 03-15-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:36 PM
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The issue to consider when running a race like the ROAR Carpet Nationals is time vs entries. That is an unknown factor because you would have an issue at this type of event setting a maximum number of drivers and the classes they can run. As an example, say I decide to enter two weeks before the ROAR Nats, am I going to be told sorry, too late, I can’t enter ? Or, are you going to tell a driver “sorry, you can only enter two classes, not four” ?

Now, for a race like the Reedy Race of Champions, total entries are limited (this year, all 175 entry spots were filled on day two of entries going live online) and a driver can only enter one class. At the Reedy, they run Triple mains for all classes.

When it is an event that you can limit the amount of entries and classes entered, it can be done. If it is a race where entries cannot be reasonably limited, then you cannot plan out the time frames to do such a schedule.

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Old 03-14-2018, 05:48 PM
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The number of entries allowed depends on the event. Example: the 1/8 fuel offroad nats will be a sellout with a waiting list. Depending on the venue, they can fit a few more entries, but they usually have a max entry limit based on hours in the day, artificial light, neighbors, etc. IT could be 350 or 400.

Races like the carpet nats are usually not sold out, so late entry is allowed (with a late fee) and if there is room you can add classes in many cases if there are not full heats. If there are 48 entries in one class, they might allow 2 more guys to add since it does not increase the number of heats (10 cars per heat)

There are a lot of ways to do different formats. Reedy style, the JMB format (several qualifiers to separate the top 32 from the bottom, the reedy style top 32, the rest do more qualifiers and mains), or even UF1 style, 1 super short qualifier, the 3 15 minute mains (super fun!).

Really, the hardest thing is dealing with huge numbers of entries and limited time. You can't do everything you'd like with the hours available in the day.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR View Post
The issue to consider when running a race like the ROAR Carpet Nationals is time vs entries. That is an unknown factor because you would have an issue at this type of event setting a maximum number of drivers and the classes they can run. As an example, say I decide to enter two weeks before the ROAR Nats, am I going to be told sorry, too late, I can’t enter ? Or, are you going to tell a driver “sorry, you can only enter two classes, not four” ?

Now, for a race like the Reedy Race of Champions, total entries are limited (this year, all 175 entry spots were filled on day two of entries going live online) and a driver can only enter one class. At the Reedy, they run Triple mains for all classes.

When it is an event that you can limit the amount of entries and classes entered, it can be done. If it is a race where entries cannot be reasonably limited, then you cannot plan out the time frames to do such a schedule.

Panda ��
Originally Posted by robk View Post
The number of entries allowed depends on the event. Example: the 1/8 fuel offroad nats will be a sellout with a waiting list. Depending on the venue, they can fit a few more entries, but they usually have a max entry limit based on hours in the day, artificial light, neighbors, etc. IT could be 350 or 400.

Races like the carpet nats are usually not sold out, so late entry is allowed (with a late fee) and if there is room you can add classes in many cases if there are not full heats. If there are 48 entries in one class, they might allow 2 more guys to add since it does not increase the number of heats (10 cars per heat)

There are a lot of ways to do different formats. Reedy style, the JMB format (several qualifiers to separate the top 32 from the bottom, the reedy style top 32, the rest do more qualifiers and mains), or even UF1 style, 1 super short qualifier, the 3 15 minute mains (super fun!).

Really, the hardest thing is dealing with huge numbers of entries and limited time. You can't do everything you'd like with the hours available in the day.


I got ya. But, the schedule that I suggested is largely the same as the one run at the ROAR Nats last weekend. Really all I did was remove a seeding run, shorten one qualifying run, and replace that time with another round of mains. I didn't add anything.

The idea is that if I'm driving anyway, I'd rather be racing.
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dietDrThunder View Post
I got ya. But, the schedule that I suggested is largely the same as the one run at the ROAR Nats last weekend. Really all I did was remove a seeding run, shorten one qualifying run, and replace that time with another round of mains. I didn't add anything.

The idea is that if I'm driving anyway, I'd rather be racing.
Major factors are amount of entries, time constraints and what the organizers want to do. Bill Jeric and I ran a Southern California Series for a couple of years called the So Cal Scale Series. Roughly based off of the original UF1 format (that started in So Cal and we both raced in). We had two classes, F1 and GT Sedan (spoke wheels, GT bodies, 17.5 motors). Qualifying was one 2 minute run taking the average of your five best laps. That seeded you for your 3 races. F1 was 15 minute races with two timed pit stops, GT Sedan was 10 minute races with 2 timed pit stops. You stayd int eh same group all day. If you won the C group in round 1, you started first in the C group for round two. However, points were based on a Qual points system each round for all cars in that class. You could have started 5th in the A but if you wad your car on lap 1, you could end up 40th for that round. Final points were based on all three of your runs, no throw outs. Never had to many classes. But..... when we held the race at the Tamiya track that everybody loves, we had to limit the entries in both classes to limit the overall heats so we could finish before dark.

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Old 03-16-2018, 07:25 AM
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Big Races,,

limited practice
limited time on track ( heats )
and the mains.

big races are for the racer that "Learn" the track very Quickly...
not for racers like me... needing lots of time on the track to learn it. and I am OK with it.

my Opinion.
rc racing since 1991. all types.
I only race the bigger races.. when they are AT my home track. RARE.

I have been to the Cleveland Ohio races many times... as a spectator...
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dietDrThunder View Post
I got ya. But, the schedule that I suggested is largely the same as the one run at the ROAR Nats last weekend. Really all I did was remove a seeding run, shorten one qualifying run, and replace that time with another round of mains. I didn't add anything.

The idea is that if I'm driving anyway, I'd rather be racing.
No offense but it is easy to plan out the schedule after the race when you know EXACTLY how many entries in each class. When you are posting a race and have to plan a schedule months in advance with at best a muddy crystal ball 🔮 to determine how many classes / entries, not so easy.

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Old 03-22-2018, 04:38 PM
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A 2 minute practice run? That’s a lot of work to get 2 minutes of track time.
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