HPI vs. CLONE
 

so why do some of the hpi guys bash on someone who's thinking about getting a clone? the way I see it is if someone wants to save a couple hunderd bucks on a clone so be it. after all hpi will still make some money on the parts that need replacing right. now doesn't most manufactures make alot more money on thier parts then thier kit. I'm sure they made all money back from all the R&D. now if you bought a 2nd hand or used one did hpi make any thing on you, I don't think so. so whats the big deal. next time someone wants to buy a clone don't be a tool!!! be cool about it you just might be rubb'n fenders with them and having a blast. or if you know someone who wants one but doesn't want to spend $1100+ on a 5th scale like your hpi just to see whats all the hype about. tell them theres other brands like ROVAN, KM, HK that has interchangeable parts with an hpi. and you now have someone else to race/bash with. so lets have some fun and stop bashing on people who wants or asking question about a clone. no matter what brand we buy its all about the fun right!!!;)

xl8er

I disagree, it's not just about fun. Clones are a rip-off of another companies hard work. Why would you expect people to praise and support that?
I don't know what arguement you have carried this from, but supporting companies that basically steal other people tech is crap.

If it gets new people into the hobby why not? I know a couple of mates who bought clones, basshed them and found they were relatively fragile but it got the enthusiasm from a passing fancy to full on rc nut, and they both went on and bought HPI Baja's, these 'clones' are now nothing but parts doners at the back of the shed.

But there is a lot of 'clone hate' on the forums, and sometimes those attacks get very personal, which I think is a shame, the hobby is meant to be fun isn't it? RC is RC, whether it's a Clone Baja, a HPI, an Xray or a K Mart spec Tyco.

Yeah it's kinda sad everyone turns it into a personal attack on anyone that owns a clone.

People acting like little spoiled babies and making fun of clone owners isn't going to change anything. The clones will STILL be made and people will STILL buy them regardless of what other's opinions are. So at the end of the day is it really worth it to badmouth complete strangers just because of their rc choice????

Everyone should just enjoy what they own. I think clones are good for the rc market. They get newcomers into the hobby for cheaper and most when they break end up buying hpi parts anyway. So hpi still benefits from clones in a way.

I'll never understand why people think it's okay to RIP OFF original designers? Simply because some idiot clones their hard work with cheap crap and then undercuts their fair price? Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense-- I suppose it's okay also to steal from your neighbor because he has so much more stuff than you? Same logic,
T

Hello??? Are you kidding me? I have to call BS on that one. YOU are the one who started the personal attacks. This is NOT a personal attack.

"Buying a clone gives nothing back to the baja community. Ask the companies you mentioned what they think about clones."

And to that post you responded with this.

"I bet 99% of the companies could care less what vehicle the parts are going on. They are in business to make money. If they cared as much as you wanna portray they do then they would just give you the parts at cost and making them would only be a "hobby" for them to "help" fellow HPI owners........

I honestly think it's sad how some of these baja events are banning clones from competing. That's like you going to the dragstrip with a import car and since there are only american muscle there they tell you to leave and you can't run. When I'm in the staging lanes in one of my mustangs I could care less who is beside me and what they are driving. As long as they enjoy being there and enjoy there vehicle they own THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS....

Go stink up someone else's threads with negative comments. Hey while your at it go find a local kid that just saved up enough money to buy a stampede and is outside with a smile on his face and tell him since it ain't a HPI savage it's a POS.......That is since you like downing everyone's choices so much... "


The last paragraph of YOUR post is a personal attack. You started the attacks, yet you blame them on others? Who's the spoiled little baby here?

if you took that analogy as an attack then you are hyper-sensitive. i see nothing at all wrong with what he wrote. edit: in fact, your ensuing post was where the attacks started.

i also feel like clones are shameless, but at their price point i dont think they are stealing any potential buyers from any of the name brands. i do also feel like they are a revenue generator as far as replacement parts are concerned for the name brand companies.

nobody with a ~$500 budget will even consider a baja, but you can be sure they will most likely be buying baja parts since they are more readily available. and every hobby shop i talk to tells me that the profits are in parts sales, not in kits.

well it like I said thier still makeing money on thier design with the parts that that they sell when a clone breaks and replaces it with hpi OME parts.
and oh yeah it is about the fun.

it is for me too. do people actually willingly pay (significantly in most cases) for a hobby they dont find enjoyable or fun?

look if hpi or any other manufacture were so worried about someone stealing thier design why would they make it china, the knock-off capital of the wrold.

I'm just sick and tired of all the hpi vs. clone crap on here and every other site. EVERY single time someone mentions a clone a bunch of people get their panties in a bunch. I'm done on here with you and all the other clone haters. Guys go ahead and post whatever you like because I will NOT respond anymore to your childish hpi fanboy posts........:lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

From what I hear, HPI "silently approves" of the clones because it generates more money for them (through parts sales) that they would not have realized otherwise.

So it's kind of silly to bash the HPI clone makers, because in essence, that's the same as bashing HPI themselves! LOL

I would love to hear HPI's version of the story. To be able to actually read it in print... from HPI on HOW they were copied in the first place, what they have done to try to protect their designs, or whatever. It wouldn't surprise me to find out they are importing from the same suppliers since it's harder to track what is produced in China.

The smaller USA companies getting their designs copied pisses me off more than KM and Rovan vs. HPI. Without our popular selection of brands of baja parts, all of our enjoyment of the Baja platform would truly suffer! Imagine having to run stock tires forever, or not having Tripp or Woodster around making durable bodies... No R&D going into twin engines, or cages, or pipes, etc.... I have a couple Integy parts on my rig, but only because I'm too broke to replace them with better. One is a direct rip-off of Turtle's clutch even.

I will say this though... I gave up on clones, since I have what some would say "The Corvette Mentallity," blah blah blah. But I really feel HPI doesn't give a shit about their customers, in that they continue to try to rape us of our hard earned money. Case in point, the 5SC bodies. The 5T bodies even. They are over priced, mass produced junk. Why the heck anyone would pay full price for a stock body is absolutely mind boggling. I could see creating a mold, and using some thin lexan for test runs, to be shredded, but that is where the buck should stop. If it weren't for getting a blem body from Tripp a few months back, my 5th scale days would be over!

Somebody else posted something to this affect, and it really hits home..
"Pay now, or pay later... with 5th scale, you're gonna pay!"

5th scale is the most durable scale of r/c land vehicle that I've ever worked with. As long as your not trying to land some big jumps it'll hold up pretty well.

First off I have NEVER spent my hard earned money on a clone. I believe you get what you pay for.
With that being said , some of you guys are talking like the "clone" manufacturers are breaking into HPI's factory at night and using all thier equipment to produce their products. Alot of time and money goes into designing and building a car even if the "design" has been copied from another company.

Its kinda like going to Harbor Freight and buying your tools instead of stepping on to a Snap On truck and paying 10 times more for a tool that "looks" the same.
All things are NOT created equal, you get what you pay for.

i find it funny when people will bash a clone, yet they will buy after market parts for a name brand car from another company, just because said "name brand" is well know or not in china its not considered a rip off or copy.
but if you think about it, do these companies pay a licensing fee to the company ? or are they just COPYING a part and making it out of alloy or a different colour etc.
do you buy tyres made for your name brand car from that company or from another.
what about bodies ???
the list goes on, but don't knock COPIES when there is 50 other companies making after market/hop us that you will buy and use, as buying a NON FACTORY replacement part takes more money from a company than a copied car. :D:D:D

I know i am new to this site but in my opinion everyone has to start somewhere wether it be the top brands/ makes or the clones

That's excatly what i'm talking about!!! how can someone bash on a clone and go out and buy some other manufactors after market parts or go out and buy a used hpi and say, you should only buy and support hpi because their design was was ripped off:weird:. to me it doesn't really matter what brand you buy as long as were having fun.

There isn't a better way of looking at this. Both sides are right.

Let's get the points down.

HPI has better quality over all...
KM has better prices over all...

HPI supposedly designed the Baja...
KM supposedly copied the Baja...

This is a tough economy...
Dave Ramsey would probably tell us all we're nuts either way.

Either we are part of the solution...
Or we are part of the problem...
Both platforms suffer from similar flaws...
The size and design limits the performance...
But the size and design offers unique characteristics...

KM= expensive fun
HPI = expensive fun
Rovan = expensive fun

Turtle, Tripp, Hostile, Killer-RC, TGN, DDM, Largescale RC, etc... all offer products to make our fun even more expensive and fun...

I don't see a win here any way. But in the time it took me to write this, I could have learned how to program the expo in my new 4PL I got last week, or finished applying the decals to a body I painted 4 months ago.

Why? Because this is a pointless, winless arguement. We're all here to play with our toys. We are all attracted to this forum to find better paths, parts, ways, experiences... but the only thing that remains true...

5th scale is fun. 5th scale is expensive. Pay now, pay later, doesn't matter. You're gonna pay. An RC life is an experience all in its' own. We have lots of toys. Some are great, some are bad, but its a journey.

CHEERS!

+1

You know you probly could have found a cheap copy of that 4PL. LOL

Probably. But when it comes to radios and servos, there isn't any room for mistakes! Besides, i got it for $100 plus an Airtronics MX3 FHSS, so it was too good of a deal to pass up!

I'm really not pro-clone or anti-clone. I like being able to get people into RC, but I do prefer to get them into something used with low time, wear n tear, etc, and a few hop-ups. So be it, if it's a clone.

Hpi uses a clone engine in their baja (the fuelie engine is a cy which is Chinese zenoah clone). You can't sympathize with hpi when they're using clones themselves.

now this is the attitudes that I like to read about. :D no arguing no fighting just some guys trying to to enjoy the hobby know matter what someone else wants to buy.:nod:

Is there a reason why HPI doesn't make a cheaper version of there Baja to take the thunder from the clones? Seems if the whole clone thing was a problem, and HPI is able to get the cars made in China like the clones, they could make a version that is cheaper like the clones while still having the higher price version available?

Also, I agree to a point about you get what you pay for. Simply put, described to me by someone I raced with:

"Go purchase car A that is top notch in price. Using the get what you pay for logic, you should have no problem with me charging you double for the same car, or triple, as afterall, you get what you pay for right? Wait a minute, its the same car in that box that was cheaper a second ago, it didn't suddenly improve, did it? NOPE . "

"Get what you pay for" logic only goes so far, or, everyone here online would just pay MSRP.

The only arguement here is that HPI as a company does give back to US at the tracks and give aways, support and customer service..I have yet to see any so called clone/copy company offer any such support...

I have learned too support those who support me...

I could care less about this debate as I have another company/copy that got me started into r/c addiction...still have it and resale on these are not worth it if you do not stick with it..

That would be PRICE GOUGING !
Kinda like the Oil companies do to us everyday. Has nothing to do with basing prices on production costs.
Just saying.

Clone radio would have been better quality. In 8 yrs of the hobby I have used Spektrums, KO Radios, 3Pk, 4PK, 4PL, 2PL, 3PL, 3PM Futabas as well as the cheapy "Fly Skys"

4PL is the ONLY one that the transmitter actually broke (and I always store my radios in a padded case), and then Futaba screwed me on warranty. The 4pl IMO is a garbage radio. Going back to the 4PKS the quality is 100% better and the 4pl was clearly made to cut corners.

..but I digress :)

Some of you are seriously misinformed.

Supporting other companies that are copying parts? Sorry, Turtle racing, Hostile, etc., are making replacement parts, not EXACT copies. They have r&d into their parts, not just duplicating.

It is ONLY about having fun? Yes, rc is about having fun. So when the guy who steals your stuff so he too can "have fun", I hope everyone welcomes him aboard.

If you think buying a product that is counterfeit is ok, you are part of the problem. Defend it all you want, but that is why so many have an issue with clones and people that buy them. It is not a superior or elitist attitude, it is about a company being ripped off. Buy another brand, Duratrax, or the Redcat Rampage series. Nobody will have an issue with that, but when you buy a product that clearly is ripped off from another company and try to defend that, don't expect everyone to smile and say welcome.

Where exactly is the analogy in the last paragraph? If you don't see that as a personal attack, then that is your misunderstanding or lack of comprehension.

A conversation or debate can be a great thing, but not when the people involved are so closed minded and devoted to their side of the argument that their opinion can not be changed, even when facts are presented. This is not aimed at anyone in particular.

If HPI stated they were ok with clones due to making money on parts, I would not have as much of an issue with clones, other than the fact that it is just plain wrong for anyone to steal another persons design.

Who said Turtle and Hostile are making knock-offs?

Here you go...

but its ok to buy a used hpi and buy all after market parts then say support hpi.

Lol, some of you are just out to argue and have very low comprehension skills.

Did I support the theft of a companies design by buying used?

Did I contribute to the company that is stealing the design?

Your clone company has done what for the hobby? Made money for themselves? Have they given anything back, an event they sponsored, a new design, anything? Yet you want to support them? You are one of the many that will piss and moan about the state of the world, yet will never stand for anything except instant gratification.

Some people will take a stand for what they believe is the right thing to do, even if it means they have to sacrifice.

i find it very ironic you say "don't buy copies" but then try and defend buying after market parts by companies who don't give royalties to the origonal company.
any thing you buy that's not a original part is taking away from that company.
think about that next time you look at your car that uses non factory
motor/body/tyres/servos/bearing/radio etc and you may realise your no better than the guy who buys a clone

Lmao, ok. Can you tell me exactly which part of improving on a design and making a counterfeit part is the difficult part to understand?

You can twist it however you want to justify the purchase of a clone, but there is a substantial difference.

first of i dont have any clones.


going by your reasoning then, if i made a complete copy of a car , as long as it was a improvement over the original that would be ok

How about you learn the difference between a copy/exact duplicate and an upgraded/improved design? Is the concept really that difficult for you to grasp? Here is an easy one: Look at an HPI Dirtbuster tire, then look at a Hostile MX tire. See the difference? Now look at a clone tire. See the difference?

They both fit the baja, one is a copy, one is a new design but still fits. Is that easy enough for you? Now apply that same process to the other parts.

only difference i see is there is 2 tyres that are not produced by hpi and neither give money to hpi yet make money from exploiting there product.
why cant you grasp that concept its very very simple.

After market or clone = same thing

HPI vs. CLONE
 

i see theres a lot of back & forth about the clone stuff , tell me something then , name some of the clone brands????? , i could own 1 & not know it !!!!!!!
as im new to the rc game :confused: