HPI vs. CLONE

Old 10-03-2011, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sperera View Post
i know the one of the major clubs, who races sanctioned events and state titles do not allow clones on their track or to race.

Myself and a group of friends are in the process of acquiring land here in Victoria (state in Australia) and building Victoria's first large scale track capable of holding sanctioned races, we WILL not take the above approach and invite all large scales, regardless of make or model to join, race and most importantly have fun. We are an incorporated and registered club, called VOLS (Victorian Offroad Large Scale).

I dont know if its different in the states but I wouldnt be surprised if a large number of clubs in the states ban clones from their tracks and clubs.
sounds like you have somthing good in the works! not sure on tracks in the states, if they dont allow clones, i would rather not race there anyway, even if i had a HPI. kinda be like nascar racing all fords...LOL
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:51 PM
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yeah i understand what your saying and feel the same.

no matter what forum u go this is a very heated subject, some sites more than others.

but its good to get our opinions out there and share how we feel
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sperera View Post
this is where a bit of foward planning will come in handy, allot of clubs and tracks dont allow clones (yes i know sounds very unfair) so if you think this is something you might want to race (even a slight maybe) i would go genuine HPI (or now even Losi).

ive been into largescale rc for 2 years, owned a HPI Baja 5bSS (for a week, didnt like it so it went) and a number of FG's so trust me when I say regardless of which they are both going to need upgrades to be reliable if you bash even half hard.

if budget isnt an issue you might as well go genuine, that way if you want to join a club you will have no restrictions. At the end of the day however whats the point of buying the model @ $1500+ and spending on upgrades when you can spend half that and buy the upgrades your most likley going to end up buying anyway?
Sperera has the right idea here.

Fact is, there are not many tracks PERIOD that will allow 1/5th scales so most of the events that restrict to genuine HPI, are HPI sponsored, or are sponsored by companies who are well respected in the industry. These are the events that are planned about a year in advance, just to get large companies to commit to sponsorship.

At the risk of sounding redundant, here's another spin. Watch a production video of ANY baja event. Look for a banner that says "King Motor" or "Rovan" hanging on any barriers, walls, fences, pit tables, etc.. You won't find one. Put aside the thought of "clones vs. genuine" for a minute and consider this. REGARDLESS of what KM or Rovan manufactures, THEY DO NOT SUPPORT BAJA RACING IN THE USA. They are just riding on HPI's coattails in that they advertise as "HPI Compatible."

I haven't picked up any RC magazines in awhile, but last I knew, they didn't advertise in any of those either. Sure they have cheaper product, but all they do is manage logistics here in the states, with an imported product. Why should I support them (I've had 3 KM's and still have one HPI) when they don't support me?!

I can't believe HPI didn't recall every last Baja when the VERY FIRST clone appeared. They should have, only to change up a color scheme or something, just to help distinguish themselves from the clones.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:47 PM
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some very valid points there aaron. HPI certainly support the hobby with sponorship and orgaising events etc. i really would like to see Rovan and KM become more involved, after all it would benifit the product they are selling....
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
I disagree, it's not just about fun. Clones are a rip-off of another companies hard work. Why would you expect people to praise and support that?
I don't know what arguement you have carried this from, but supporting companies that basically steal other people tech is crap.
well said!

at the end of the day if you want to buy a crappy clone thats all up to you.
you get what you pay for
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
I disagree, it's not just about fun. Clones are a rip-off of another companies hard work. Why would you expect people to praise and support that?
I don't know what arguement you have carried this from, but supporting companies that basically steal other people tech is crap.
I sure hope your the type that grows your own food, built your own house, and lives without ever going to a Walmart, Target, or other national retailer. Otherwise I highly doubt you have never purchased something which it's founding idea was not stolen from something or someone. Heck even eating a burger at McDonalds the supposed most AMERICAN food chain in the world serves you beef that most likely came from a Cow grown and raised in an Asian country.

I do not see how this is acceptable for everything else in the world, but everytime someone brings this discussion to the realm of our Hobby it is all of a suden unacceptable to buy something that may have been made from someone elses design.

Basically it goes like this. HPI designed their Baja 5b in AMERICA. Then they decided that it was TOO expensive to make here and that they would make more money per unit if they send their design to another country to make this design. STRIKE ONE. Than they send their AMERICAN money that we give them for their products to another country to manufactuer and produce there designs. STRIKE TWO. Than because of their marketing and overhead they are forced to have to sell the product for a price over the 1000 dollar marker. Not a strike out for some but for myself that is a STRIKE 3.

If any of you are inside the industry and can show that in fact HPI/Traxxas/ETC do in fact, mold, assemble, and produce their products inside the confines of the United States than please call me out. Otherwise please do not lecture those that chose to by something from China or any other countries when the so called AMERICAN companies ship most of their supposed work over to these countries in the first place.

PLease continue to bash on myself and others that bought a clone!
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 92 vert View Post

At Power Jam last summer I heard someone talking how the same man designed the Zenoah and the left to start CY....
Anyone know anything about this??
Yes, you are correct. That is what the Zen rep said too. I have tried to tell these guys that before, but they ignored me. If Zenoah doesn't consider the CY to be a clone, why should you?

Last edited by upDUHcreek; 10-06-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by reno911 View Post
I sure hope your the type that grows your own food, built your own house, and lives without ever going to a Walmart, Target, or other national retailer. Otherwise I highly doubt you have never purchased something which it's founding idea was not stolen from something or someone. Heck even eating a burger at McDonalds the supposed most AMERICAN food chain in the world serves you beef that most likely came from a Cow grown and raised in an Asian country.

I do not see how this is acceptable for everything else in the world, but everytime someone brings this discussion to the realm of our Hobby it is all of a suden unacceptable to buy something that may have been made from someone elses design.

Basically it goes like this. HPI designed their Baja 5b in AMERICA. Then they decided that it was TOO expensive to make here and that they would make more money per unit if they send their design to another country to make this design. STRIKE ONE. Than they send their AMERICAN money that we give them for their products to another country to manufactuer and produce there designs. STRIKE TWO. Than because of their marketing and overhead they are forced to have to sell the product for a price over the 1000 dollar marker. Not a strike out for some but for myself that is a STRIKE 3.

If any of you are inside the industry and can show that in fact HPI/Traxxas/ETC do in fact, mold, assemble, and produce their products inside the confines of the United States than please call me out. Otherwise please do not lecture those that chose to by something from China or any other countries when the so called AMERICAN companies ship most of their supposed work over to these countries in the first place.

PLease continue to bash on myself and others that bought a clone!
very very well put! hard to argue with that. I got nothing against HPI and think its a great product, but dont believe (my opinion) its any better than a clone which sells for half as much as it does. HPI follow a large number of practices the clone makers do like sending their manufacturing to cheaper countries etc.

as for the zen vs CY debate, so a Zen man went to CY and helped them desing the CY engine, and for some reason you beleive this doesnt make it a clone of a Zen?

If this Zen person that moved to CY used his in depth knowledge of Zen and applied a large number of desinges/materies etc in the manufactre of that CY how does it NOT become a clone?
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sperera View Post
very very well put! hard to argue with that. I got nothing against HPI and think its a great product, but dont believe (my opinion) its any better than a clone which sells for half as much as it does. HPI follow a large number of practices the clone makers do like sending their manufacturing to cheaper countries etc.

as for the zen vs CY debate, so a Zen man went to CY and helped them desing the CY engine, and for some reason you beleive this doesnt make it a clone of a Zen?

If this Zen person that moved to CY used his in depth knowledge of Zen and applied a large number of desinges/materies etc in the manufactre of that CY how does it NOT become a clone?
LOL... So it seems... Zenoah lost an employee... who left to create or work for Chung Yang... But, Zenoah never had "said employee" sign a "non-disclosure" or "non-compete" agreement about Zenoah information.... So they are losing market share due to a mistake within the company. Then... EVEN HORIZON HOBBY turns their back on Zenoah by SUPPLYING THEIR 5T with a CY engine....

Yet... Zenoah continues to be the benchmark. Are times changing? Damn, next thing we know Kinwald will be driving for Associated...
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sperera View Post
very very well put! hard to argue with that. I got nothing against HPI and think its a great product, but dont believe (my opinion) its any better than a clone which sells for half as much as it does. HPI follow a large number of practices the clone makers do like sending their manufacturing to cheaper countries etc.

as for the zen vs CY debate, so a Zen man went to CY and helped them desing the CY engine, and for some reason you beleive this doesnt make it a clone of a Zen?

If this Zen person that moved to CY used his in depth knowledge of Zen and applied a large number of desinges/materies etc in the manufactre of that CY how does it NOT become a clone?
Originally Posted by aaron2u View Post
LOL... So it seems... Zenoah lost an employee... who left to create or work for Chung Yang... But, Zenoah never had "said employee" sign a "non-disclosure" or "non-compete" agreement about Zenoah information.... So they are losing market share due to a mistake within the company. Then... EVEN HORIZON HOBBY turns their back on Zenoah by SUPPLYING THEIR 5T with a CY engine....

Yet... Zenoah continues to be the benchmark. Are times changing? Damn, next thing we know Kinwald will be driving for Associated...
This is why I'm trying to stay out of this. You guys won't listen to reason, and you refuse to acknowlage the truth. So I'm going to take it one step further.

By your line of thought the Zenoah is a clone too. They copied the engine design used for weed wackers since the 70's.

One last time I'm going to say this again. The SAME GUY designed both the Zenoah, and the CY, so they are bound to be very similar. What I'm trying to figure out is how you think someone can steal his own design to make a clone. The design was his to begin with, so it's not possible for him to steal his own design.

OK, I'm done here, at least for a while. You guys are being jerks, and your just trying to start a fight, or you would have let this thread dye weeks ago. The funny part is, I could care less what your driving. However, I hate keyboard commandos, and this thread seems to be full of them on BOTH sides of the arguement. Your actions are hurting our hobby more than they are helping it. Other RC guys see these threads, and they think we're all jerks, so they avoid largescale like it's the plague. But of course you refuse to consider that posibility, just like you refuse to consider you could be wrong.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:10 AM
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History lesson:

Some dude back in the late 1600's made the 1st combustion engine. Since than everyone has copied him.

Even this dude copied the dude that made the 1st steam powered motor.

Back to the original topic at hand.

I noticed two main differences on the clone vs hpi. The front hub design is different, and the rear hubs are the older style multi piece units, which I think hpi has since replaced with one piece right? Other than that I really could not tell the difference in plastics. They bent and felt the same in my hands.

Also I get my servo here soon and I was curious to what gas/oil ration you all may recomend for the 1st couple of tanks. Some reason I keep finding 1 to 25 but that seems like a lot of oil! I was thinking 1 to 50 like what I would run in the banshee.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:49 AM
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From the outside looking in, since I always wanted a 5th scale every stinking time I go to the hobby shop, this thread makes me not want to competitively race 5th scale. Its not a money issue for me,

I see both sides and for me whatever I would choose is nobody's business its my money and I will spend it how I see fit. NONE of this (clone/HPI) effects you individuality, so why make it a huge issue.

Babys suck and High school was over years ago for many of us, you guys grow up.

Remember the reason you got into this hobby was to have fun.
This is not fun and will not lead to more fun. Helping each other and sharing your experiences make's more fun. So help, share, and be fine with each individuals choice.

Oh yah and HPI not letting clones race is like kids on a play ground not letting Jimmy play with the group cause he has on Faded Glory Jeans and the rest have one of the many different styles of Levi's.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vette66_00 View Post
From the outside looking in, since I always wanted a 5th scale every stinking time I go to the hobby shop, this thread makes me not want to competitively race 5th scale. Its not a money issue for me,

I see both sides and for me whatever I would choose is nobody's business its my money and I will spend it how I see fit. NONE of this (clone/HPI) effects you individuality, so why make it a huge issue.

Babys suck and High school was over years ago for many of us, you guys grow up.

Remember the reason you got into this hobby was to have fun.
This is not fun and will not lead to more fun. Helping each other and sharing your experiences make's more fun. So help, share, and be fine with each individuals choice.

Oh yah and HPI not letting clones race is like kids on a play ground not letting Jimmy play with the group cause he has on Faded Glory Jeans and the rest have one of the many different styles of Levi's.
Ehh, its the web. Everyone is 6'5", 200#s, benchs 350#s and runs a mile in less than 5

I agree with your oppinion, and best luck with which ever you choose.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by reno911 View Post
History lesson:

Some dude back in the late 1600's made the 1st combustion engine. Since than everyone has copied him.

Even this dude copied the dude that made the 1st steam powered motor.

Back to the original topic at hand.

I noticed two main differences on the clone vs hpi. The front hub design is different, and the rear hubs are the older style multi piece units, which I think hpi has since replaced with one piece right? Other than that I really could not tell the difference in plastics. They bent and felt the same in my hands.

Also I get my servo here soon and I was curious to what gas/oil ration you all may recomend for the 1st couple of tanks. Some reason I keep finding 1 to 25 but that seems like a lot of oil! I was thinking 1 to 50 like what I would run in the banshee.
i still run 1 to 25, runs strong and like to be safe
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:57 AM
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25:1 and 93 octane gas and dont look back....I also use polaris VES gold....it is the best I have tried.....

As for running a 5th scale vette you will love the long run times and the size of what ever chassis you decide on ...going around will put a smile on your face and most all others around you ......good times....and welcome to the addiction....lol
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